Paramount Tower, 65-68 stories, approx. 750', 200 units, $240 million, Church Street Park

[Tennessine]

20 minutes ago, Binbin98 said:

I hope this news will support this project coming to fruition. I was in Downtown Nashville last night with friends and they all made sure I avoided the church street park area since we were walking around at night. I felt very safe but regardless I do think this project would benefit the city as a whole and maybe be the catalyst for future taller developments to be proposed. Besides, I feel the homeless population would be better suited to live in a shelter with water, electricity and heat instead of living in a park outside which could be subject to any changes in weather and outside dirt and disease. Letting the homeless live outside in a park instead of giving them a potential place to live just seems really stupid to me. But since this is Nashville with its extremely conservative city council, I expect this project to not get passed like many others. I wish this city was more embracing of responsible growth than against it. Rant over lol

Trust Knoxvillians: putting a band-aid on the homeless problem is not a solution. The city approved $500k of taxpayers' money to build sanitation facilities underneath the bridge on North Broadway, just a click north of downtown. People are pretty pissed off, and understandably so. It's not that no one wants to help the homeless, it's an issue of misuse of resources and enabling a place for hundreds of people to gather, use drugs, and spread diseases.

 

Edit: Here is a link for those interested. Similar issue to what Nashville is facing with Church St. park. Again, this is not a rag on the homeless themselves, but a criticism of certain policies that enable homelessness to grow at the expense of taxpayers.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knoxnews.com/amp/1211056002

[bigeasy]

Knoxville is a great example of how to not solve the homeless problem. When I went to UT I was amazed at how bad it was around the city.

[Pyramid Scheme]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

I used to work with a homeless ministry. And I can attest that it is damned difficult to teach people to fish when they don’t want to.

Jesus teaching the 5000 was a different type of situation. My thought was: maybe the churches/charities should give to programs aimed at getting the homeless into the workforce, not just giving them handouts, which might make the ones giving them feel good about themselves, but doesn't really do anything for the homeless. I have worked with people in Memphis who were homeless, but now have a job and live in a house and pay bills etc.. That should be the aim. I've also known folks who don't think they should have to work and will never amount to anything. I have no sympathy for them.

[MTFAN]

Most of the homeless people are mentally ill.  There is no "teaching them to fish".  They need to be put in schismatic facilities like in the past for there own safety and care.   The next group of homeless are drug attics that can be helped with the right programs.  There are very few that are just on hard times.  Those type are temporarily homeless but usually get back on their feet on their own.  Regardless, they should not be allowed to harass people and take over public spaces so nobody else can use it.  Until they bring back the mental hospitals to lock up many of them the homeless problem will continue to exist.   

[Dale]

1 minute ago, MTFAN said:

Most of the homeless people are mentally ill.  There is no "teaching them to fish".  They need to be put in schismatic facilities like in the past for there own safety and care.   The next group of homeless are drug attics that can be helped with the right programs.  There are very few that are just on hard times.  Those type are temporarily homeless but usually get back on their feet on their own.  Regardless, they should not be allowed to harass people and take over public spaces so nobody else can use it.  Until they bring back the mental hospitals to lock up many of them the homeless problem will continue to exist.   

Put in facilities ... against their will ? Again, I can attest that a goodly percentage are happy where they are ? And why shouldn’t they be when people bring food and materials to them ?

[SoundScan]

I disagree that "most" homeless are mentally ill, it simply appears that way to the layman because the small percentage that have extreme mental health issues cause a large percentage of the visible problems, e.g. harassing the public, indecency, hygiene, etc. The vast majority of the homeless population flies under the radar.

[MLBrumby]

Suggestion: Great topic! But please take the Homeless discussion to the Coffee House. I don't like clicking on this thread and NOT seeing progress on this building. 

[Bos2Nash]

I  know we want to separate the Homeless discussion from this development, but the discussion is imperatively tied to the development because of the implications to the homeless, and the greater vision of Nashville as a whole. I apologize if people are pestered by this topic here, but it is an imperative conversation to have together with this development. I apologize in advance and with sincerity for the length of this post and if it comes off as harsh. That is not my intent by any means. 

On 12/11/2018 at 9:51 AM, smeagolsfree said:

They are closing the park after dark and have two cops posted there the rest of the time and people still don't feel safe or comfortable going to the park. The homeless are pretty much kicked out of the mission during the day and have to fend for themselves like go look for a job, or housing, or a can of beer. Churches come to the park and feed the homeless during the day, wash everyone's feet and make the ones doing it feel really good inside, while washing someone's feet is a kind act, it does nothing to help them get off the street. With the churches feeding the homeless and doing acts of kindness there, they are actually encouraging the problem. Word travels quickly around the homeless community about where the free lunches are. You may think I am a heartless beotch, but I do get out and talk to these people, help when I can, and I have had my share of nasty encounters too.

Interesting while I was in Boston I did not see a daylight homeless encampment in Boston Commons.... Why? Is there an ordinance? I did see a few panhandlers there, I just didnt see a lot. I saw a lot more in Cleveland than in Boston.

I don't think you're a heartless beotch. The homeless population does communicate and they do know where meals and care will come from. I do not blame them for congregating where the care is, honestly it's smart on them to do that because many times with these types of services it is first come first serve and the services tend to run out very quickly. My mom works for a shelter up north and the shelters need people to leave for the day so they can clean and ensure that the shelters remain a safe and clean place for people to come to. My mom is lucky in that she works for a shelter that receives zero public money, which is a rarity. 

I am not sure about ordinances regarding the homeless population in Boston, but I will say the city takes on a different mindset in many ways. Pine Street Inn is one of the biggest shelters in the city and they go out every day to move people to and from the shelter in and around the city. Park Street Church is very welcoming to homeless population and feeds them regularly. The Boston Common and Garden are protected jewels of the city and are heavy regulated when it comes to development, and while annoying,  they serve to help make Boston a very welcoming and walkable city.  The services that "taxachusetts" helps provide are vastly different from here. I am one of the few that didn't move here to get away from the taxes, I came for professional growth and exploration, cost of living and taxes were a perk.

On 12/11/2018 at 11:39 AM, DDIG said:

The Civic Design Center suggests with Amazon down the street this park will be needed. Right. Isn't the Yards planning an acre plus of green space? They are going to walk a couple blocks to a sliver park?

One green space does not serve an entire city. The point of the multi-part series by the NCDC is talking about having a fully connected system of green spaces. As our city develops, the intent is not to place green spaces for individual developments, but rather have an idea that all the green spaces tie together. I'll use Boston as an example again because the Boston Common and Garden are part of the larger "emerald necklace" designed by Olmsted to connect the entire city via green space. Part of what makes the High Line in NYC so successful is it an interwoven space that connects the city. Piecing together green space development by development is not a model that will really work, because the designs will primarily serve the development rather than the city. 

A section of Boston right off the Common and Garden called Downtown Crossing is a Pedestrian only zone (with the exception of deliveries and emergency vehicles) and it is wildly successful due in part to its adjacency to the Public Green space. You can walk down here for food, shopping, work, live and then walk three minutes to the park and relax.  Honestly, the homeless gather here more than anything because the people will walk here and they can make a living here. In Boston the social services advise to give no money to the homeless because they will make more money on the street then they will on a job. I personally have seen groups of homeless gathering, dividing up their bounties for the day there. Just shows that no city is perfect, even when there are successes. Millennium Tower recently opened within the DTX area in Boston, but the development did not trigger the success of the neighborhood. The neighborhood success triggered the development.

That all being said.... Currently Nashville's primary green spaces encompass the downtown core, but do not penetrate it successfully. The argument the NCDC is making is to redesign the park to be a successful penetration, and honestly their solutions make sense. Looking at their research and understanding how this green space is imperative to the city as a whole (not just a single development) is what makes this argument stick.

On 12/11/2018 at 1:50 PM, Binbin98 said:

I hope this news will support this project coming to fruition. I was in Downtown Nashville last night with friends and they all made sure I avoided the church street park area since we were walking around at night. I felt very safe but regardless I do think this project would benefit the city as a whole and maybe be the catalyst for future taller developments to be proposed. Besides, I feel the homeless population would be better suited to live in a shelter with water, electricity and heat instead of living in a park outside which could be subject to any changes in weather and outside dirt and disease. Letting the homeless live outside in a park instead of giving them a potential place to live just seems really stupid to me. But since this is Nashville with its extremely conservative city council, I expect this project to not get passed like many others. I wish this city was more embracing of responsible growth than against it. Rant over lol

So the taller discussion has already been discussed at great length. Nashville has so much land that it is easier to spread out rather than build up. Tony is looking to leave his statement on the city, no fault to him for doing that. If all jurisdictions approve the development, it should be built to the ideas that are proposed, if the tower shrinks or for some other reason the development falters, I would hope the land defaults back to the city or the city holds Tony to the large development standards. It helps to have shelter, when the people want to go there. Also, how welcoming is a shelter space, when it is directly across from a jail? How many people here would move into a building directly across from the jail if you already have a routine elsewhere?

We all want this tower to positively impact the city. The imagery in Part 2 of the NCDC's proposal begins to hint at a potential solution. Want to really have this development make a bang? Close down Anne Dallas Dudley to all motor traffic, have Tony invest in converting the street to a Pedestrian only zone and promote the first floor tenant spaces to be public realm shops, cafes and other establishments. Replace the minimal green space you are removing along Anne Dallas, design a new, resilient green space at Jame Robertson and find a better location for the housing development planned by the jail.

Also, for those that haven't read the first two parts of the NCDC's research and proposal please see the two links below.

Part 1: https://www.civicdesigncenter.org/news/2018/12/05/dreaming-big-for-public-space.3375039

Part 2: https://www.civicdesigncenter.org/news/2018/12/12/dreaming-big-for-public-space-part-2.3385741

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Bos2Nash
NCDC Links

[samsonh]

My guess is this tower is a ways off. Sales are terrible in 505 judging by property records. The developer and some of his employees have bought units, but huge swaths of the building are sitting unsold. 

[Binbin98]

15 minutes ago, samsonh said:

My guess is this tower is a ways off. Sales are terrible in 505 judging by property records. The developer and some of his employees have bought units, but huge swaths of the building are sitting unsold. 

That is because the developer used airbnb rentals on most of the floors instead of permanent condos or apartments. Nashville has a lot of demand for apartments and condos, especially now with the AllianceBernstein and Amazon announcements downtown

[samsonh]

Just now, Binbin98 said:

That is because the developer used airbnb rentals on most of the floors instead of permanent condos or apartments. Nashville has a lot of demand for apartments and condos, especially now with the AllianceBernstein and Amazon announcements downtown

No these are unsold units, not apartment or Airbnb. All different sections of the building. 

[Binbin98]

16 minutes ago, samsonh said:

No these are unsold units, not apartment or Airbnb. All different sections of the building. 

They all have a relationship because they are in the same building. I know someone who now lives in green hills that was looking at living in this building who was turned off by the fact that many airbnb rentals were filled with loud people and parties, and as a result she didn’t end up living there. She is a transplant from dallas.

But yeah i guess your right, no more tall residential buildings will ever be built in Nashville ever again. Especially not after all the downtown jobs announced by huge corporations. Nashville is just a really unattractive city to live in huh. 

 

[Armacing]

I think if they offered the units as Condos they would fly off the shelf.  This rental craze is going to swing back the other way and Condos will come back into fashion.  Remember Viridian?  That's the model Tony needs to stick to.

[Dale]

Amazon and Allianced Bernstein just called to say there are 6,000 reasons this could work.

[samsonh]

16 minutes ago, Binbin98 said:

They all have a relationship because they are in the same building. I know someone who now lives in green hills that was looking at living in this building who was turned off by the fact that many airbnb rentals were filled with loud people and parties, and as a result she didn’t end up living there. She is a transplant from dallas.

But yeah i guess your right, no more tall residential buildings will ever be built in Nashville ever again. Especially not after all the downtown jobs announced by huge corporations. Nashville is just a really unattractive city to live in huh. 

 

lol bin bin I never said no tall buildings would be constructed. Just that sales are slow, which they are. This building is priced too high imo

[markhollin]

The Nashville Civic Design Center Thursday released the second of three articles addressing research and potential visions for Church Street Park in downtown Nashville, with the effort focused on multiple images and design considerations, among other elements.

More behind The Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/21036944/design-center-continues-focus-on-updating-pocket-park

 

[satalac]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Amazon and Allianced Bernstein just called to say there are 6,000 reasons this could work.

Don't forget EY!

[smeagolsfree]

Did I say a park will not work there and has not for 20 years.

[Dale]

13 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Did I say a park will not work there and has not for 20 years.

These are purists!

[henburg]

Not that this plan doesn't look nice, but it doesn't seem to address the homeless problem at all and it annoys me that no efforts were made to revitalize the park until Tony came up with a plan of his own. It's like when the Tuck-Hinton firm criticized the 5th + Broadway plan at the very last minute. 

[MLBrumby]

40 minutes ago, henburg said:

Not that this plan doesn't look nice, but it doesn't seem to address the homeless problem at all and it annoys me that no efforts were made to revitalize the park until Tony came up with a plan of his own. It's like when the Tuck-Hinton firm criticized the 5th + Broadway plan at the very last minute. 

It actually adds to the problem, by adding more "park" space. Those poor businesses along Capitol Blvd. are going to hurt big-time if that plan goes through. That's a disaster waiting to happen. 

[PaulChinetti]

59 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

It actually adds to the problem, by adding more "park" space. Those poor businesses along Capitol Blvd. are going to hurt big-time if that plan goes through. That's a disaster waiting to happen. 

Why would the businesses be hurt more?

[MLBrumby]

When the homeless move farther up Capitol Blvd. people will be reluctant to go up that street and visit the businesses along it. 

[donNdonelson2]

5 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

When the homeless move farther up Capitol Blvd. people will be reluctant to go up that street and visit the businesses along it. 

Are there ANY businesses along Capitol Boulevard?

[smeagolsfree]

7 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Are there ANY businesses along Capitol Boulevard?

Not really, maybe a couple of shops. I know that is where B Cycle is located, but not much more. On the west side of the street you have the dead zone that is the Sheraton with no street activation. The East side of the street I think has nothing but empty store fronts. And the back side of the Hermitage hotel with no street activation.

This is a street that would benefit from a plaza type situation if done properly. You could do street vendors and food trucks in the middle, outdoor seating for new restaurants, if that's your thing and still have the two cops patrol the area as they are paid for by the downtown partnership anyway