Smith's Drug Store Redevelopment

[spartanburgh]

I have to side with 1Spartanburg on this one. PB has traditionally had a very small vision and not much understanding of what the potential may be.  Nice lady, but

not the job for her. I don't think any of the City Administrators or Council has any desire to take advantage of the environment we are experiencing and to be able

to advance development in an aggressive  manner. The economy may not continue to be favorable for developers and we need to take advantage of the opportunities

that we have now.

Its sad that the City Manager, Assistant City Manager, and Economic Development Director were all advanced form within and will hold there positions until they

decide to retire. I'm afraid we are in for a long period with little competence in our administration.

[roads-scholar]

I'm mystified that a once promising project has devolved into a situation where (1) the developer is inexperienced and lacking capital and (2) the city planning folks are incompetent.  I'm not a design or development expert by any stretch of the imagination but, on the surface, this project looks like a winner.  I'm terribly concerned that the local and national economy will turn sour and will stifle new developments and investment.  Spartanburg has made a ton of progress but downtown still has a lot of empty lots and retail space to fill.  I'm for keeping the momentum going - strike while the irons are hot.  

If someone can expound on why this development can't get city support I'd love to hear it.  

[1Spartanburg]

Ed was the one that was able to put deals together. His retiring was at a bad time with  this hand full of projects and new projects needing a push to get them started and completed.  Chris has a lot on his shoulders to take care of.  We need to be aggressive and take advantage of every project we get.

[mainonmain]

16 hours ago, spartanburgh said:

I have to side with 1Spartanburg on this one. PB has traditionally had a very small vision and not much understanding of what the potential may be.  Nice lady, but

not the job for her. I don't think any of the City Administrators or Council has any desire to take advantage of the environment we are experiencing and to be able

to advance development in an aggressive  manner. The economy may not continue to be favorable for developers and we need to take advantage of the opportunities

that we have now.

Its sad that the City Manager, Assistant City Manager, and Economic Development Director were all advanced form within and will hold there positions until they

decide to retire. I'm afraid we are in for a long period with little competence in our administration.

The Economic Development Director (PB) was absolutely not promoted from within. Prior to landing in her current role she had been a leasing agent with JDA. 

I'll also say that the subject of incentives is complicated. There are limited resources, opportunity cost is a very real thing, and the City cannot continue to bear the overwhelming majority of the burden of downtown development incentives. If you're looking for the right time for the County and/or School District 7 to raise their hand and help shoulder the burden of property tax incentives in the central business district, that time was 25 years ago. They can still step up anytime. If you want to make your feelings known to a local taxing entity or entities about the necessity of development incentives in downtown, you should be sure to direct them to the county and the school district in addition to the city, which has carried nearly all the water to date. 

And at the same time, if you listen to developers, they'll tell you that property tax abatement and other incentives are always needed. When the economy is chugging along, you need to do it to "strike while the iron is hot." When the economy is slower, you need to do it to prop up the market and reduce risk. When some other developer beats them to market with a project, they want the same deal. When they beat everyone else to market, they want a promise no one else will get the same deal.

All the while thumping their chests about what great risk-takers and visionaries they are and how great the "free market" is.

Not every project is going to receive tax abatement or other incentives. Some will. Regardless of how any one of those individual decisions goes down, I think it'd be foolish to make sweeping statements about the city's competence or desire for downtown development. Just because they decide to sit out this deal or that deal doesn't mean they're getting out of the game altogether.

Edited February 7, 2019 by mainonmain

[1Spartanburg]

You made some good points. Time will tell. I am wanting you to be right.  

[gman430]

This project isn’t dead.

[Spartan]

On 2/6/2019 at 11:16 PM, mainonmain said:

The Economic Development Director (PB) was absolutely not promoted from within. Prior to landing in her current role she had been a leasing agent with JDA. 

I'll also say that the subject of incentives is complicated. There are limited resources, opportunity cost is a very real thing, and the City cannot continue to bear the overwhelming majority of the burden of downtown development incentives. If you're looking for the right time for the County and/or School District 7 to raise their hand and help shoulder the burden of property tax incentives in the central business district, that time was 25 years ago. They can still step up anytime. If you want to make your feelings known to a local taxing entity or entities about the necessity of development incentives in downtown, you should be sure to direct them to the county and the school district in addition to the city, which has carried nearly all the water to date. 

And at the same time, if you listen to developers, they'll tell you that property tax abatement and other incentives are always needed. When the economy is chugging along, you need to do it to "strike while the iron is hot." When the economy is slower, you need to do it to prop up the market and reduce risk. When some other developer beats them to market with a project, they want the same deal. When they beat everyone else to market, they want a promise no one else will get the same deal.

All the while thumping their chests about what great risk-takers and visionaries they are and how great the "free market" is.

Not every project is going to receive tax abatement or other incentives. Some will. Regardless of how any one of those individual decisions goes down, I think it'd be foolish to make sweeping statements about the city's competence or desire for downtown development. Just because they decide to sit out this deal or that deal doesn't mean they're getting out of the game altogether.

Every developer is going to go bankrupt because of property taxes and having to build things like "sidewalks" or "trees." It's truly an amazing phenomenon. I'm surprised anything ever gets built anywhere, really.

[1Spartanburg]

This project is all but dead. 

[gman430]

6 hours ago, 1Spartanburg said:

This project is all but dead. 

Proof? 

[1Spartanburg]

I can’t share with you.

[1Spartanburg]

It is very simple, just ask the developer. He will give you the info. that  you want to know.

[Sparkleman]

And who might that be Mr. Insider?

[1Spartanburg]

Don’t be mad at me. I want this project and every project that passes the D.R.B to be built. I live  in Spartanburg and work out of town. I love Spartanburg and have lived here a long time. We have made great strides downtown. But I watch other cities in our state like Greenville, Charleston, and Columbia  doing much more than we are to develop there downtowns. I have lived in Columbia and Charleston but chose Spartanburg because I love it here.  I just want our city leaders to be more aggressive in the area of economic development  like the three cities that I mentioned. 

[1Spartanburg]

I work out of town so it is hard to make it to the City Council meetings or the D.R.B. meetings. But I would encourage all of you to try to go to those meetings. You can learn a lot. Especially at  the D.R.B. meetings. And at the D.R.B. meetings you can find out who the developers of the projects are. And if you are outgoing and interested in the project you can actually introduce yourself and talk to the developer. You too can become an Insider.

[spartanburgh]

I had really hoped this one would happen. That old Smith's Drug store is such an eye sore on Main Street and needs to

be redeveloped. If this guy chooses not to do the project, I'm afraid we'll be looking at the eye sore for many years to come.

 

 

[SparkleCity1]

Any updates on this project?  

[roads-scholar]

13 hours ago, SparkleCity1 said:

Any updates on this project?  

I heard from a member of the DRB that the developer / owner is revising his plans.  

[Spartanburg Dude]

Any news on this project?

[roads-scholar]

38 minutes ago, Spartanburg Dude said:

Any news on this project?

I fear its dead.  The scope and cost of the project may have been beyond the means of the owner/developer.  

[spartanburgh]

This one is dead.