Orlando Magic

[spenser1058]

Whether you agree with the Magic’s strategy or not, here’s the bottom line: currently, they are #26 of 30 in NBA attendance.

Is this what Downtown needs to prosper? Maybe tanking is a viable strategy (especially when it’s “rebuild” after “rebuild” for a decade), but outside the bubble it’s doing real damage to the area it was supposed to bolster as a reason to invest taxpayer dollars.

[AmIReal]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:46 AM, spenser1058 said:

Whether you agree with the Magic’s strategy or not, here’s the bottom line: currently, they are #26 of 30 in NBA attendance.

Is this what Downtown needs to prosper? Maybe tanking is a viable strategy (especially when it’s “rebuild” after “rebuild” for a decade), but outside the bubble it’s doing real damage to the area it was supposed to bolster as a reason to invest taxpayer dollars.

Yes they are #26, but that still means they average 15,200 people every game. Over their 41 game schedule they drew nearly 623,000 people downtown.  It falls on the local businesses to attract those people to their locations- its not the job of the team or the local government to do so.

Also, "Orlando’s Amway Center and Camping World Stadium saw a record-breaking month in March"... "Amway Center was also recognized in the March 28 issue of Pollstar, an entertainment industry trade publication, as number 14 in the top 100 arenas worldwide for total gross ticket sales and total tickets sold for the first quarter of 2022."... 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/music/os-et-orlando-amway-center-camping-world-stadium-record-20220412-c46d7pzkk5gyjgczhpr3j55upu-story.html

DPAC, Amway and CW are finally sitting upright after 2 years of pandemic- that should be applauded.

[spenser1058]

Here’s the record for a decade:

“It’s been exactly 10 years since the inaugural rebuild began following Dwight Howard’s departure*, and the Magic have suffered through nine losing seasons and the worst record in the league (275-526) over the last decade.”

And yep, downtown retail continued to decline during that time. Even more interesting, you’re blaming it on EVERYONE but the Magic. And how about that unsightly vacant lot Buddy handed over to the DeVoses without vetting. Should we let that eyesore, clearly visible from I-4, be on the same decades long uselessness the DeVoses showed with their team?

This is progressive? We’re in a blue city and we’re letting a reactionary family continue to fail. I guess that make sense… to someone.

*Remember back at the beginning of the season how this “rebuild” was a one-year thing? I guess all the “rebuilds” before it were also one year. It’s sort of odd how Magic fanbois measure.

Finally, if the downtown venues are producing such splendid success, why is it that retailers, restaurateurs and the like aren’t falling all over themselves to announce projects? Compare that to what happened in the attractions area post-COVID. Instead, Church St is worse than ever and Buddy’s solution to everything, yet another Main Street District, has been shown to be the gang that can’t shoot straight downtown. But I understand- Buddy and his right-wing buddies (in a progessive city, no less) are responsible for nothing. If “progressive” derives from “progress”, I’d sure like to see some before several more decades roll by.

[AmIReal]

The facts remain the same even with your unnecessary political distractions- the games and the arena attract a very significant number of people. You made the point about ranking #26 and I simply pointed out that is still a lot of people- even more when you add the other arena events. I don't think downtown retail's demise is related to the arena. The previous year the Magic were #2 in attendance (covid year) and since the new building opened, they have been above league average in attendance-http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance . But downtown has not improved over the decade. I don't see how you view the Magic and the arena as being responsible for the demise of downtown Orlando, when they seem to be the biggest attractor to downtown.

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

*Remember back at the beginning of the season how this “rebuild” was a one-year thing?

No, I don't remember that at all. I can't imagine anybody with any sense at all would have said that. Did you make that up?

 

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Finally, if the downtown venues are producing such splendid success, why is it that retailers, restaurateurs and the like aren’t falling all over themselves to announce projects?

But, aren't they? Look at all of the developments coming online in the CBD and Parramore- which after laying fallow for decades has finally started to attract investment. From everything being built in CV, to the new TMG property at Central and Westmoreland, to the Magic training facility to Deadwords in Parramore and then Society, Church St  Plaza, Radius in the CBD- downtown projects seem to be doing quite well- both large and small. Granted, we don't have the hardware store or bike repair shop that you personally  judge a downtown on, but we seem to have a lot of the stuff downtown residents feel they need.  Eventually,  some local entrepreneur will come along and decide we need a toggery to specifically satisfy your needs.

But that's not the point as, once again, I made the mistake that we were talking about the Magic and the Arena in the "Orlando Magic" thread and I just wanted to add some facts related to attendance numbers into the discussion.

However, since we're being fairly direct here, I just don't get how someone can go on and on about the demise of downtown and then constantly beotch about one of the few things that actually improves the downtown experience just because it suits their political agenda.

[jrs2]

On 4/13/2022 at 8:44 PM, AmIReal said:

However, since we're being fairly direct here, I just don't get how someone can go on and on about the demise of downtown and then constantly beotch about one of the few things that actually improves the downtown experience just because it suits their political agenda.

well, Spenser just raked Buddy over the coals as well as the Devos clan, so you can't blanket pin political bias on him on this topic...

I agree with Spenser on this topic.  I don't fault Buddy so much, but I could easily point fingers at him for attacking a church and then retaliating against the Black community by cutting off Parramore with a soccer stadium that does nothing for that community.  It would be easy to do, but I get it.

As for The Tragic, they tore down that garage with those bars and shops in it.   Man... that should've never been allowed to happen.  I blame the clan for their feigned fake it till you make it persona as a big time developer when they weren't.  You can convince people to join Amway when you have conviction, but when it comes to these types of projects, you gotta be Ken Whittle.  They aren't.  Even the good 'ole boys in Daytona got their entertainment district built- after The Tragic announced theirs.

I associate that clan with the Majesty Building people; I shouldn't, but I do.

However, on your other point about The Tragic being partly to blame for the demise of downtown or its stagnation, absolutely there is a correlation to a team sucking and fans not really coming out in droves to see them.  Sure, #2 in attendance during covid- ok, fine..  Amway Center brings in concerts...ok.  But are The Tragic responsible for that?  I don't think so.

[jack]

13 hours ago, jrs2 said:

well, Spenser just raked Buddy over the coals as well as the Devos clan, so you can't blanket pin political bias on him on this topic...

I agree with Spenser on this topic.  I don't fault Buddy so much, but I could easily point fingers at him for attacking a church and then retaliating against the Black community by cutting off Parramore with a soccer stadium that does nothing for that community.  It would be easy to do, but I get it.

As for The Tragic, they tore down that garage with those bars and shops in it.   Man... that should've never been allowed to happen.  I blame the clan for their feigned fake it till you make it persona as a big time developer when they weren't.  You can convince people to join Amway when you have conviction, but when it comes to these types of projects, you gotta be Ken Whittle.  They aren't.  Even the good 'ole boys in Daytona got their entertainment district built- after The Tragic announced theirs.

I associate that clan with the Majesty Building people; I shouldn't, but I do.

However, on your other point about The Tragic being partly to blame for the demise of downtown or its stagnation, absolutely there is a correlation to a team sucking and fans not really coming out in droves to see them.  Sure, #2 in attendance during covid- ok, fine..  Amway Center brings in concerts...ok.  But are The Tragic responsible for that?  I don't think so.

I am pretty sure Spense thinks Dyer is a corporate democrat and a DINO. 

As to the attendance, what is the capacity of the arena for magic games? 18K? If so, they are not that far off. The bigger issue is are the attendees hanging out before or after the game? It would not matter if the magic were number one if no one sticks around afterwards. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, jack said:

I am pretty sure Spense thinks Dyer is a corporate democrat and a DINO. 

As to the attendance, what is the capacity of the arena for magic games? 18K? If so, they are not that far off. The bigger issue is are the attendees hanging out before or after the game? It would not matter if the magic were number one if no one sticks around afterwards. 

well, you do make a decent point; ala Inglewood, CA and the Lakers franchise back in the day...

well the misnomer here is the term "corporate Democrat" in that it is being a redundant label.

[spenser1058]

Funny how the odds on the lottery that the Magic insist were worth tanking for in the last decade are right up there with those of folks who fall for the Amway multilevel marketing scam:

“The Magic, Rockets and Pistons all have a 14% chance of getting the top pick. The Magic have a 13.4% chance to get the second pick, 12.7% chance to get the third pick, 12% chance to get the fourth pick, 27.8% chance to get the fifth pick and 20% chance to get the sixth pick. Can you imagine the Magic losing 60 games and end up picking sixth?”

Marc Daniels, FM96.9 The Game

https://969thegame.iheart.com/content/2022-05-16-monday-notebook-lottery-festivus-sabans-parity-and-headline-news/

With odds like these over such an extended time frame, should we think about an intervention for the DeVos Family with Gamblers’ Anonymous? Perhaps we could enlist the assistance of the local clergy.

Edited May 16, 2022 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Orlando Magic got the #1 overall pick in the draft lottery. I don't really watch the NBA, but glad to see the Magic get the #1 pick. Want to see them be relevant again. Good for our city.  Now, they need to capitalize and get some results. 

 

[spenser1058]

Congrats on that and hopefully it will work out. Apparently, it’s the first time since 2004, which is an odd way to build stability in a franchise, but maybe they’ll get lucky this time. All we can do is hope.

[prahaboheme]

36 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Congrats on that and hopefully it will work out. Apparently, it’s the first time since 2004, which is an odd way to build stability in a franchise, but maybe they’ll get lucky this time. All we can do is hope.

Do you believe in magic?

[spenser1058]

The Magic remind me of South Florida Football, who keep bringing up they were #2 in the AP one time in 2004 or something and are convinced any day now the B1G will take them although they’ve done nothing since then.

Meanwhile, UCF, more like the tortoise than the hare, spent the years building a solid foundation and got called to the Big Show.

South Florida is shocked, shocked! I tell you that such a thing could happen.

The Magic need to stop taking shortcuts that haven’t worked for a decade and get better the old-fashioned way - win games. It’s sort of amazing, isn’t it, that both entered the NBA at almost the same time and Miami has yet to feel the need to tank (in the early years, the Magic took off even more quickly than Miami).

But hey, if they’ve thrown away 10 years to pray like an addicted gambler that Luck’s gonna be a Lady tonight, more power to them. if this works. We’ll find out soon enough.

[jgardnerucf]

Spenser, please stop trying to speak sports.     Stick to your tired mayoral hate soap box and your target circle coupon clipping.

[jrs2]

On 5/17/2022 at 9:46 PM, spenser1058 said:

The Magic remind me of South Florida Football, who keep bringing up they were #2 in the AP one time in 2004 or something and are convinced any day now the B1G will take them although they’ve done nothing since then.

Meanwhile, UCF, more like the tortoise than the hare, spent the years building a solid foundation and got called to the Big Show.

South Florida is shocked, shocked! I tell you that such a thing could happen.

The Magic need to stop taking shortcuts that haven’t worked for a decade and get better the old-fashioned way - win games. It’s sort of amazing, isn’t it, that both entered the NBA at almost the same time and Miami has yet to feel the need to tank (in the early years, the Magic took off even more quickly than Miami).

But hey, if they’ve thrown away 10 years to pray like an addicted gambler that Luck’s gonna be a Lady tonight, more power to them. if this works. We’ll find out soon enough.

You may be LGBTQ, but you've got it hard for Genshaft...I love it!

[jrs2]

So I had no idea that The Heat were in the Eastern Conference Finals until a buddy of mine from Miami told me the other day.

I was about to draw a comparison to The Magic until I had a completely different revelation totally unrelated.  I just name dropped "a buddy."  Why is it that hetero men are always referencing their buddies.  Where are all the women?  Why aren't they feeding us relevant info about stuff other than soaps and body wash?

Maybe the gay community had it right all along.  

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

So I had no idea that The Heat were in the Eastern Conference Finals until a buddy of mine from Miami told me the other day.

I was about to draw a comparison to The Magic until I had a completely different revelation totally unrelated.  I just name dropped "a buddy."  Why is it that hetero men are always referencing their buddies.  Where are all the women?  Why aren't they feeding us relevant info about stuff other than soaps and body wash?

Maybe the gay community had it right all along.  

I can’t help you there, I’m afraid. I’m in the other program…

[jrs2]

On 4/13/2022 at 3:34 PM, AmIReal said:

Yes they are #26, but that still means they average 15,200 people every game. Over their 41 game schedule they drew nearly 623,000 people downtown.  It falls on the local businesses to attract those people to their locations- its not the job of the team or the local government to do so.

Also, "Orlando’s Amway Center and Camping World Stadium saw a record-breaking month in March"... "Amway Center was also recognized in the March 28 issue of Pollstar, an entertainment industry trade publication, as number 14 in the top 100 arenas worldwide for total gross ticket sales and total tickets sold for the first quarter of 2022."... 

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/music/os-et-orlando-amway-center-camping-world-stadium-record-20220412-c46d7pzkk5gyjgczhpr3j55upu-story.html

DPAC, Amway and CW are finally sitting upright after 2 years of pandemic- that should be applauded.

that is impressive, that ranking with Pollstar.  #14 worldwide is a very good ranking when you think about it (in 2022).

To put this in perspective, in the US, when you consider NBA arenas, you would have ATL, NC, MIA, SF, LA, SD, PHO, DAL, CHI, DET, CLE, DEN, and BOS as 13 arenas, with ORL as No.14 (if it was just the US being ranked).  In this example, in the US alone, ORL would outrank, say, NJ, BROOK, PHI, WA, SEA, PORT, MN, IN, SA, OKC, LA2,  TOR, SAC, MIL, UT, NO, MEM (another 17 NBA arenas).

Now, make this rank international, add in US college arenas, and add all other arenas out there:  I counted around 20 or so international basketball arenas of like 15k seats or more.  But in the US, I don't know how many college basketball arenas could be considered "events" arenas- I guess all of them would be since they exist (like the Ocean Center in DB or Tampa's arena for the Lightning or Jacksonville's arena or the arena in Sunrise for the NHL Panthers).

So, it's a pretty good ranking as far as booking events/ticket sales for events in 2022.

But, based on my list above, it's just above the 50/50 mark of NBA cities, No.14 of 31 NBA cities.  One would hope based on the size of the city (or metro) it would maintain it's rank based on population rank.  I think this type of rank is indifferent to tourism ranking, i.e., that one doesn't really affect the other.

So, I would also add NHL-only stadiums/cities b/c they also play 41 home games.  I would not count college stadiums b/c we don't know how they count ticket sales for college students.  So, I would add the NHL stadiums of VAN, CAL, EDM, MON, OTT, WINN (in Canada), Sunrise, Fla, CAR, PITT, BUF, COL, ANA, LAS, STL, NASH, SJ (which brings in another 16 stadiums).

So, Orlando is No.14 of 47 stadiums (of comparable NBA and NHL stadiums of comparable parameters to judge by in the US & Canada).  I think adding in stadiums in The Philippines and China doesn't count.

[AmIReal]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

that is impressive, that ranking with Pollstar.  #14 worldwide is a very good ranking when you think about it (in 2022).

To put this in perspective, in the US, when you consider NBA arenas, you would have ATL, NC, MIA, SF, LA, SD, PHO, DAL, CHI, DET, CLE, DEN, and BOS as 13 arenas, with ORL as No.14 (if it was just the US being ranked).  In this example, in the US alone, ORL would outrank, say, NJ, BROOK, PHI, WA, SEA, PORT, MN, IN, SA, OKC, LA2,  TOR, SAC, MIL, UT, NO, MEM (another 17 NBA arenas).

Now, make this rank international, add in US college arenas, and add all other arenas out there:  I counted around 20 or so international basketball arenas of like 15k seats or more.  But in the US, I don't know how many college basketball arenas could be considered "events" arenas- I guess all of them would be since they exist (like the Ocean Center in DB or Tampa's arena for the Lightning or Jacksonville's arena or the arena in Sunrise for the NHL Panthers).

So, it's a pretty good ranking as far as booking events/ticket sales for events in 2022.

But, based on my list above, it's just above the 50/50 mark of NBA cities, No.14 of 31 NBA cities.  One would hope based on the size of the city (or metro) it would maintain it's rank based on population rank.  I think this type of rank is indifferent to tourism ranking, i.e., that one doesn't really affect the other.

So, I would also add NHL-only stadiums/cities b/c they also play 41 home games.  I would not count college stadiums b/c we don't know how they count ticket sales for college students.  So, I would add the NHL stadiums of VAN, CAL, EDM, MON, OTT, WINN (in Canada), Sunrise, Fla, CAR, PITT, BUF, COL, ANA, LAS, STL, NASH, SJ (which brings in another 16 stadiums).

So, Orlando is No.14 of 47 stadiums (of comparable NBA and NHL stadiums of comparable parameters to judge by in the US & Canada).  I think adding in stadiums in The Philippines and China doesn't count.

9 basketball arenas outranked them- NY Knicks, Lakers, Clippers, Philly, Boston, Atlanta, DC, Houston and Cleveland (some also do other sports).

Also 3 hockey specific arenas (Vegas Knights, Nashville Preds and Pitt Penguins) as well as WizLink Center in Madrid.

Amway outranked 21 other pro basketball arenas (there are 30 teams).

https://data.pollstar.com/chart/2022/03/Top100Arenas_1013.pdf

 

[jrs2]

11 hours ago, AmIReal said:

9 basketball arenas outranked them- NY Knicks, Lakers, Clippers, Philly, Boston, Atlanta, DC, Houston and Cleveland (some also do other sports).

Also 3 hockey specific arenas (Vegas Knights, Nashville Preds and Pitt Penguins) as well as WizLink Center in Madrid.

Amway outranked 21 other pro basketball arenas (there are 30 teams).

https://data.pollstar.com/chart/2022/03/Top100Arenas_1013.pdf

 

Good point. I went from using the international ranking of 14 and kept it when I made it a North America-only comparison.  

But, the Clippers and Lakers play in the same arena, so that counts as the same stadium, Crypto.com Arena, so, only 8 basketball arenas outrank them and 3 NHL only arenas.

Every time I type “arenas” I think of Gilbert and that bust, yet another stellar move by this organization.

[spenser1058]

Paolo Banchero from Duke is the Magic’s #1 draft pick tonight.

[HankStrong]

Obligatory DUKE SUCKS

[spenser1058]

22 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Obligatory DUKE SUCKS

Oh my!

[spenser1058]

Shaq’s ready to buy the Magic:

https://people.com/sports/shaquille-oneal-says-hes-ready-to-go-right-now-and-buy-orlando-magic/

From People
 

[jrs2]

22 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Shaq’s ready to buy the Magic:

https://people.com/sports/shaquille-oneal-says-hes-ready-to-go-right-now-and-buy-orlando-magic/

From People
 

...now THAT would be something...

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...now THAT would be something...

Heck, even I! would buy season tickets for that if the alleged Pyramid Schemers left town. I bet Shaq would be quicker with the MEC, also. There could be a huuuuge statue of his Shaqness right in the middle! In his spare time, he could run for OC Sheriff!

Edited June 29, 2022 by spenser1058