CarolinaDaydreamin

1000 Room Convention Center Hotel

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13 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

I figured this one was big enough for its own thread!

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article211125599.html

A 1,000 room hotel would certainly impact the skyline and most likely continue the dramatic growth on Stonewall.

LaWana Mayfield continues to impress with her idiocy. 

I'm hardly going to defend Lawana as a politician anymore, but she asked a perfectly sound question. I think the argument for supporting public financial support for a 1000-room corporate hotel is very thin, especially given the explosion of hotel rooms across the city. I get "convention and planning logistics" blah blah blah, but there are a dozen other space races that I think would benefit Charlotte far more. 

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The argument they used to say is that Charlotte can't block off enough rooms for a convention due to strong business travel. However with all the new hotels like Kimtpon, upcoming Intercontinental and Grand Bohemian plus the many mid market hotels like AC by Marriott, Springhill, Embassy Suites and the planned JW Marriott at Tryon Place there seems to be enough rooms to lessen the pressure on the Westin and the larger hotels that they can set aside a big block of rooms for a convention.   Basically all these smaller hotels less than 300 rooms add up and give business travelers many more options which it would seem to allow the bigger hotels to block off more.   If I was a business traveler coming to Charlotte I would want to stay the Kimpton or upcoming Bohemian or even at the boutique Iveys.     

This I do know a 1000 room hotel with need incentives as they do in most markets but whether it is fair or not is a whole different question.  If these tourist taxes can be used for only tourism items should not their be a pause until the new owner of the Panthers is revealed and see what the needs at the stadium could be? 

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1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

The argument they used to say is that Charlotte can't block off enough rooms for a convention due to strong business travel. However with all the new hotels like Kimtpon, upcoming Intercontinental and Grand Bohemian plus the many mid market hotels like AC by Marriott, Springhill, Embassy Suites and the planned JW Marriott at Tryon Place there seems to be enough rooms to lessen the pressure on the Westin and the larger hotels that they can set aside a big block of rooms for a convention.   Basically all these smaller hotels less than 300 rooms add up and give business travelers many more options which it would seem to allow the bigger hotels to block off more.   If I was a business traveler coming to Charlotte I would want to stay the Kimpton or upcoming Bohemian or even at the boutique Iveys.     

This I do know a 1000 room hotel with need incentives as they do in most markets but whether it is fair or not is a whole different question.  If these tourist taxes can be used for only tourism items should not their be a pause until the new owner of the Panthers is revealed and see what the needs at the stadium could be? 

The Panthers will get their money, either from the city, state, county or all above. I think the city knows that will happen and in a way double dip, by getting this done first. I think its a screwed move.  It's somewhat a subsidy, but it also is an investment, and one that we need if we are going to be a big league city. 

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That would be a great location. I was also thinking about the corner of mlk and college...the data center thing. What was the deal with that again?  I would prefer that location bc man that building is just a bunch of walls. 5-10 years ago, it got away with that location. But now that thing has to go. Plus convention hotel at that location would finish the 4 quadrants of the convention center. 

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2 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

That would be a great location. I was also thinking about the corner of mlk and college...the data center thing. What was the deal with that again?  I would prefer that location bc man that building is just a bunch of walls. 5-10 years ago, it got away with that location. But now that thing has to go. Plus convention hotel at that location would finish the 4 quadrants of the convention center. 

The data center is moving I think to the university area and the site is leased by Duke from the city from what I understand.  

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I'd rather see the money spent on an attraction that fills hotels than a hotel in a city without attractions.

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31 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

The data center is moving I think to the university area and the site is leased by Duke from the city from what I understand.  

The data center moved out some time ago to University area. On ownership: Polaris shows that Duke is the owner...

There is also a ClearSky gallery specifically focused on this property: http://photos.clearskyimages.com/2017-12-401-s-college-charlotte-aerials

Edited by Scribe
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Our convention center needs upgrades and an expansion. We are going to have plenty of hotel rooms for the size of the current convention center. It is relatively small and the upgrades in Las Vegas, Atlanta, Chicago, Anaheim, Los Angeles, etc... put us further behind. That is the biggest thing that holds back premier and consistent convention business.

Edited by CLT2014

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1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Our convention center needs upgrades and an expansion. We are going to have plenty of hotel rooms for the size of the current convention center.

They already approved the upgrades and expansion for $120 million. If I remember correctly they are supposed to have a contract signed with a GC by this summer.

Edited by Scribe
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Logistically, the Caldwell and Stonewall site is further from the city amenities as well as a majority of the conference center facilities with the exception of the Ballroom.  It is also farther from BOA Stadium, BBT Stadium, and a majority of restaurants in the city.  The nature of Brooklyn Village will be focused more on residential, and Stonewall is being built out as primarily residential.

Better sites include the Duke Datacenter site, the space between St Peters and Gantt Center, the Brevard parking lot between the Transit Center and the Hilton, and an expansion of the Hilton.

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12 hours ago, KJHburg said:

The argument they used to say is that Charlotte can't block off enough rooms for a convention due to strong business travel. However with all the new hotels like Kimtpon, upcoming Intercontinental and Grand Bohemian plus the many mid market hotels like AC by Marriott, Springhill, Embassy Suites and the planned JW Marriott at Tryon Place there seems to be enough rooms to lessen the pressure on the Westin and the larger hotels that they can set aside a big block of rooms for a convention.   Basically all these smaller hotels less than 300 rooms add up and give business travelers many more options which it would seem to allow the bigger hotels to block off more.   If I was a business traveler coming to Charlotte I would want to stay the Kimpton or upcoming Bohemian or even at the boutique Iveys.     

This I do know a 1000 room hotel with need incentives as they do in most markets but whether it is fair or not is a whole different question.  If these tourist taxes can be used for only tourism items should not their be a pause until the new owner of the Panthers is revealed and see what the needs at the stadium could be? 

Hey now. Don't call it a "planned" JW Marriott. Its more of a "all signs point to." Nobody has verified it yet. lol. And if I was Marriott, and I heard this news, that Charlotte wants a true convention hotel, I'd be waiting to be the big fish, vs. the little fish.

Also just as an insight into the process. Generally the magic number is 1/3 Debt, 1/3 Public Investment, 1/3 equity to build a Convention Hotel. We paid out over 15 years before for Westin, but I think at a $30M  investment. This would be more like $125M strung out over that 15 years instead.

Edited by ricky_davis_fan_21
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59 minutes ago, Scribe said:

They already approved the upgrades and expansion for $120 million. If I remember correctly they are supposed to have a contract signed with a GC by this summer.

The expansion doesn't improve the size of our small prime exhibit space though which brings in the mega conventions. While any space is an improvement, the expansion further supports Charlotte's place in the convention world for niche conventions and smaller groups. The expansion is a drop in the bucket compared to the expansions going on in other cities across the country and ALMOST helps us crack the top 50 in size. 

"The $110 million expansion would add 26,000 square feet of smaller meeting rooms and 15,000 square feet to host pre-event receptions."
https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/09/11/clt-convention-center-expansion-to-begin-in-2019.html

We currently have 280,000 sq. feet of space and will be up to 321,000 with these smaller rooms added. Let's look at other cities that invested in a 1,000 room hotel:

  • Marriott Marquis Houston: Supporting a 1.9 MILLION square foot convention center (6 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Sheraton Phoenix: Supporting a 900,000 square foot convention center (2.8 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Omni Dallas: Supporting  1 MILLION square feet of prime exhibition space and 2 million total space (3 - 6 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott / Ritz Los Angeles: 720,000 square foot convention center (2.25 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Grand Hyatt San Antonio: 1.6 MILLION square foot convention center (5 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott Indianapolis: 600,000 square foot convention center + Lucas Oil Stadium (2 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott Austin: 881,000 square foot convention center (2.8 times the size of Charlotte's)

etc..... 

I can't think of any US city with a 1,000+ room convention center hotel attached to a convention center that doesn't even rank in the top 50 in the country for size (even after our planned expansion). So we will have a massive hotel attached to a convention center that can barely accommodate national fraternity/ sorority meetings and regional high school volleyball tournaments... let alone conventions with massive booths for the defense industry, manufacturing, auto industry, aerospace, etc... that bring in the big bucks.

Edited by CLT2014
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Marriott is recent years opened both a JW Marriott and Marriott Marquis in downtown Houston.  the latter one is the big convention hotel  and received city subsidies.  JW Marriotts tend to be around 300 rooms or so.    I welcome this all signs point to a JW Marriott at Tryon Place as it could take years to get a convention hotel out of the ground.    I think they both could thrive.    And who knows if the convention hotel will be a Marriott property could be a Hilton property.  

What this could affect is any planned hotel at Legacy unless it is more a boutique smaller hotel.   Now we officially have a hotel arms race. 

our new convention hotel if built needs to have a pool in the shape of our state much like the new 1000 room Marriott Marquis in downtown Houston.  

MarriottMarquisHoustonpool.jpg

Edited by KJHburg
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38 minutes ago, DMann said:

Better sites include the Duke Datacenter site, the space between St Peters and Gantt Center, the Brevard parking lot between the Transit Center and the Hilton, and an expansion of the Hilton.

What's the feasibility of a hotel/high rise being built on top of the Convention Center itself? I feel like that'd be a better use of the land, but I have no idea if the building could accommodate without any costly structural modifications. I'd rather see that happen than see it built next door. 

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2 minutes ago, Hunted said:

What's the feasibility of a hotel/high rise being built on top of the Convention Center itself? I feel like that'd be a better use of the land, but I have no idea if the building could accommodate without any costly structural modifications. I'd rather see that happen than see it built next door. 

Just wouldn't work, would take too much space away from the convention center. 

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10 hours ago, Phillydog said:

I'd rather see the money spent on an attraction that fills hotels than a hotel in a city without attractions.

Just what attraction are you going to get that's big/good enough to draw people from outside of the region for $25 million or so?

 

If this spend unlocks unused potential in the already built convention center, I look at this as more of an improvement of efficiency on the already existing spend.  Which to me is better than trying to create something that does not exist at all.  

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

The expansion doesn't improve the size of our small prime exhibit space though which brings in the mega conventions. While any space is an improvement, the expansion further supports Charlotte's place in the convention world for niche conventions and smaller groups. The expansion is a drop in the bucket compared to the expansions going on in other cities across the country and ALMOST helps us crack the top 50 in size. 

"The $110 million expansion would add 26,000 square feet of smaller meeting rooms and 15,000 square feet to host pre-event receptions."
https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/09/11/clt-convention-center-expansion-to-begin-in-2019.html

We currently have 280,000 sq. feet of space and will be up to 321,000 with these smaller rooms added. Let's look at other cities that invested in a 1,000 room hotel:

  • Marriott Marquis Houston: Supporting a 1.9 MILLION square foot convention center (6 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Sheraton Phoenix: Supporting a 900,000 square foot convention center (2.8 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Omni Dallas: Supporting  1 MILLION square feet of prime exhibition space and 2 million total space (3 - 6 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott / Ritz Los Angeles: 720,000 square foot convention center (2.25 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • Grand Hyatt San Antonio: 1.6 MILLION square foot convention center (5 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott Indianapolis: 600,000 square foot convention center + Lucas Oil Stadium (2 times the size of Charlotte's)
  • JW Marriott Austin: 881,000 square foot convention center (2.8 times the size of Charlotte's)

etc..... 

I can't think of any US city with a 1,000+ room convention center hotel attached to a convention center that doesn't even rank in the top 50 in the country for size (even after our planned expansion). So we will have a massive hotel attached to a convention center that can barely accommodate national fraternity/ sorority meetings and regional high school volleyball tournaments... let alone conventions with massive booths for the defense industry, manufacturing, auto industry, aerospace, etc... that bring in the big bucks.

This is good info I didn't realize.  Thanks.  

Kinda blows up my point above.  :(

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10 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

This is good info I didn't realize.  Thanks.  

Kinda blows up my point above.  :(

I think the CRVA is trying to deflect and be like "oh the reason we can't book bigger events is we don't have a 1,000 room hotel" when the real reason is you can barely find Charlotte in most Trade Show magazines because we are so far down the list in size... which relegates us to regional / local conventions or smaller events that can book an event cheaper in Charlotte than Orlando, Las Vegas, Anaheim, Chicago, Atlanta, Indianapolis, etc... i mean really... pick a major US city and they almost all have a bigger convention center than us. 

Unless the hotel comes with a large amount of exhibit space connected easily to the current small exhibit hall, I don't see it really producing many more events than we book today and certainly not many events that would demand a 1,000 room hotel. Those events are headed to the convention powerhouse cities. 

Edited by CLT2014
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16 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Unless the hotel comes with a large amount of exhibit space connected easily to the current small exhibit hall, I don't see it really producing many more events than we book today and certainly not many events that would demand a 1,000 room hotel. Those events are headed to the convention powerhouse cities. 

 

Not to upset any NASCAR fans but what does the future hold for the HOF?  

Just thinking out loud here but what if they were to locate this hotel on Stonewall between S Caldwell and S Davidson.  They could put another sky bridge and connect to the convention center by way of the HOF.   I don't know how flexible the HOF space is...so it could be a crazy/silly idea.  

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42 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Not to upset any NASCAR fans but what does the future hold for the HOF?  

Just thinking out loud here but what if they were to locate this hotel on Stonewall between S Caldwell and S Davidson.  They could put another sky bridge and connect to the convention center by way of the HOF.   I don't know how flexible the HOF space is...so it could be a crazy/silly idea.  

No need to do that as there are better sites for the hotel including the city owned parking lot site or the data center site on College St.  Actually the Hall of Fame is integral to the convention center as many events take place in their spaces.  Plus there is no need to do that and though it does not attract as many people by a long shot as projected it holds its own with the other museums uptown.  

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