1000 Room Convention Center Hotel

[j-man]

I wish they'd just built another convention center much larger when they were in talks of the renovations, and left some major space for a 1000+ room hotel either attached or right next to it. Call me crazy but some things seem pointless to do multi million dollar renovations to when they probably won’t last a whole lot longer afterwards anyway. I can see for historic structures and things like that but for something that’s just for a simple use and needs major changes I see no point in all those renovations inside and out. And I’m sure they won’t be that impressive in the end. The location is great but a whole new more efficient and beautiful structure would take the same amount of time as or less, and will everyone will be more happy with the outcome. Granted I know there’s a lot that goes into that as far as land, price, location and so on. Just venting. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by j-man

[Blue_Devil]

I mean, when the time comes for a 1000 room hotel at that Duke Energy property, why don’t they build the ground floors as convention center space, I don’t know 4 stories up, give the hotel a sky lobby on floor 5 and then build up 800 feet?

 

Make the new hotel built into the convention center, that could give it and extra 20% capacity and 1000 rooms built in to the same location.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Blue_Devil

[tozmervo]

13 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, when the time comes for a 1000 room hotel at that Duke Energy property, why don’t they build the ground floors as convention center space, I don’t know 4 stories up, give the hotel a sky lobby on floor 5 and then build up 800 feet?

Make the new hotel built into the convention center, that could give it and extra 20% capacity and 1000 rooms built in to the same location.

You rarely see that done because of the structural requirements. Exhibition floors and conference centers require huge spans of space without columns, and even without stuff on top the structure can be crazy intense. Once you start putting stuff on top of an exhibition floor and the structure is now required to span long distances AND carry huge loads, the feat becomes nearly impossible. (I mean, without costing a fortune.)

[KJHburg]

In terms of a totally new convention center I would be that as highly unlikely given the cost for at least the next 25 years.   Where just asking for a friend is the money coming from to support a new domed stadium, major extension of light rail etc.  (Convention center, stadium come out of the hotel, restaurant and car taxes mostly)  (Light rail would be a general property tax and sales tax)  We have a lot of trees here in Charlotte but have not seen a money tree yet despite our ranking as the 2nd largest financial center in the country. 

[CLT>]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

  We have a lot of trees here in Charlotte but have not seen a money tree yet despite our ranking as the 2nd largest financial center in the country. 

Sounds like this should be a new public art project.

[KJHburg]

22 minutes ago, CLT> said:

Sounds like this should be a new public art project.

since people are questioning Charlotte's Gotta lot how about this my idea      Charlotte:  You can Bank on It!     

[Miesian Corners]

I always thought the convention center should have spanned the Belk Freeway (see Washington State Convention Center and I-5 through downtown Seattle). By doing that, nearly four blocks of uptown would not have been taken off the tax rolls, saving the land for other (taxable) uses. As for column-free space, the center could have incorporated a suspended or cable-stayed roof much like the Kansas City Convention Center. 

[Rufus]

Is a convention center even economically in the best interest of the city? Aside from a few of the major centers (Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago, San Diego, Anaheim, etc.) convention business doesn't seem super profitable, and I highly doubt we can compete in that sphere. Heck, if we were to even up to Nashville, we'd still lose out because of a lack of hotel rooms and tourism interest. Raleigh was able to capitalize on small-scale festivals and conventions, but does that hurt the chances for Charlotte to compete? 

[kermit]

32 minutes ago, Rufus said:

Is a convention center even economically in the best interest of the city? Aside from a few of the major centers (Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago, San Diego, Anaheim, etc.) convention business doesn't seem super profitable, and I highly doubt we can compete in that sphere. Heck, if we were to even up to Nashville, we'd still lose out because of a lack of hotel rooms and tourism interest. Raleigh was able to capitalize on small-scale festivals and conventions, but does that hurt the chances for Charlotte to compete? 

Its just another means of socializing risk and privateising profits. The convention business is super profitable for hotel and restaurant owners (along with our local airline), but not profitable at all for convention center operators. Without the convention center we would also lack the uptown hotels necessary to make Charlotte such a good place to go to a Panthers/Hornets/Knights/ACC Championship etc. game.

The convention center does have the virtue of being paid for (mostly) by visitor taxes -- but that is money that could have been spent elsewhere (like a new stadium).

Edited May 27, 2020 by kermit

[U_R_]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

Its just another means of socializing risk and privateising profits. The convention business is super profitable for hotel and restaurant owners (along with our local airline), but not profitable at all for convention center operators. Without the convention center we would also lack the uptown hotels necessary to make Charlotte such a good place to go to a Panthers/Hornets/Knights/ACC Championship etc. game.

The convention center does have the virtue of being paid for (mostly) by visitor taxes -- but that is money that could have been spent elsewhere (like a new stadium).

Atlanta got around that by basically paying for the Benz Stadium with hotel taxes. The convention center brings in visitors which use the convention center and stay in hotels. By staying in hotels they also pay for the stadium.

[CLT>]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

The convention center does have the virtue of being paid for (mostly) by visitor taxes -- but that is money that could have been spent elsewhere (like a new stadium).

There's a big group of hands out for all that money... The other towns in Mecklenburg, the Convention Center, NASCAR Hall of Fame, Spectrum Center, Bojangles Coliseum, Ovens, BoPlex Link Building,  Discovery Place, Levine Center For The Arts, Bank of America Stadium, and CRVB marketing budget.

 

[KJHburg]

Biz Journal has an article about the convention and hotel business today in the print edition and also a side article on a 1000 room convention room hotel.  Even though it makes sense to start planning one now the CRVA can't get much traction from city council or the hotel owners group.  The Duke data center site is still the most talked about site for a 1000 room hotel.   Meanwhile the Cherokees have a 1833 rooms in their resort. 

However there is some good news about hotel occupancy as reported in this article:

57.7% occupancy in Nov 2021 vs 39.6% in 2020  vs. 64,9% in 2019.    So getting close to a full recovery in this aspect.

Uptown hotel occupancy only

48.5% in Nov. 2021 vs. 24.3% in 2020 vs. 66% Nov. 2019.     A ways to go for uptown hotels but greatly improving.  We need major employers back in the office! 

Metro Charlotte has 46,494 rooms over 430 hotels.  Uptown has 6405 rooms over 27 hotels. 

Expect the convention center to be much busier this year with conventions and trade shows on the books and this should help uptown hotels the most.  

[kayman]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Biz Journal has an article about the convention and hotel business today in the print edition and also a side article on a 1000 room convention room hotel.  Even though it makes sense to start planning one now the CRVA can't get much traction from city council or the hotel owners group.  The Duke data center site is still the most talked about site for a 1000 room hotel.   Meanwhile the Cherokees have a 1833 rooms in their resort. 

However there is some good news about hotel occupancy as reported in this article:

57.7% occupancy in Nov 2021 vs 39.6% in 2020  vs. 64,9% in 2019.    So getting close to a full recovery in this aspect.

Uptown hotel occupancy only

48.5% in Nov. 2021 vs. 24.3% in 2020 vs. 66% Nov. 2019.     A ways to go for uptown hotels but greatly improving.  We need major employers back in the office! 

Metro Charlotte has 46,494 rooms over 430 hotels.  Uptown has 6405 rooms over 27 hotels. 

Expect the convention center to be much busier this year with conventions and trade shows on the books and this should help uptown hotels the most.  

Let go of the notion that hotel occupancy is tied major employers bringing back workers to offices. The two things are not even connected anymore post-COVID-19. There are other ways and things that can draw and fill up hotels aside from office workers in Uptown.  Conventions and major events can be held at the Charlotte Convention Center without office workers being in those offices. Reinvent Uptown to be a regional destination and activity center instead.

Edited January 8, 2022 by kayman

[KJHburg]

Hotel occupancy uptown is tied to office occupancy in terms of workers there.  If someone is coming to to a project for a bank they would come and stay a few nights have some meetings. Now that is being done over Zoom etc.   There is nobody to meet with to sell anything to as well or try out new products when everyone is at home.  Hotels that cater to business travelers are still struggling.  Hotels in the suburbs attract a wider variety of people.  Plus many companies are still prohibiting travel with their employees I just read for example Lendingtree is still that way.   Unfortunately there is not enough events or tourist draws in uptown to keep the existing hotels filled to a profitable level.  I stay a lot at hotels that cater to business travelers and they have the best rates now due to lower occupancies.  I do see this slowly recovering but business travel may never be what it was in 2019 but it should recover much more than it is today. 

[kayman]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Hotel occupancy uptown is tied to office occupancy in terms of workers there.  If someone is coming to to a project for a bank they would come and stay a few nights have some meetings. Now that is being done over Zoom etc.   There is nobody to meet with to sell anything to as well or try out new products when everyone is at home.  Hotels that cater to business travelers are still struggling.  Hotels in the suburbs attract a wider variety of people.  Plus many companies are still prohibiting travel with their employees I just read for example Lendingtree is still that way.   Unfortunately there is not enough events or tourist draws in uptown to keep the existing hotels filled to a profitable level.  I stay a lot at hotels that cater to business travelers and they have the best rates now due to lower occupancies.  I do see this slowly recovering but business travel may never be what it was in 2019 but it should recover much more than it is today. 

Okay, that's not the average consumers' not office workers' problem. The Charlotte Center City Partners (CCCP) and CRVA should become more innovative, aggressive in inducing more primarily non-office mixed used development high-rises and mid-rises, and creatively in finding and creating additional reasons for people to come to Uptown aside from primarily office occupations. There are major trade shows outside the a few automotive, boat display shows. Uptown, CRVA should become major trade center for those whom want to do business at the Charlotte Convention Center. Which inadvertently would induce more exhibition and event space usage and future expansions of the Charlotte Convention Center .

Uptown Charlotte should be the biggest major regional activity center and destination in the region not just a solely office business and work situation gathering place for hotel occupancies.  Please see Downtown Austin, Midtown Atlanta, Uptown Dallas, Midtown Houston, Downtown Miami, etc. type of diversity of activities and uses as best case examples.

Millennials and GenZ professionals are not with the "back to how it used to" pre-pandemic mentality of work occupations.  Those major employers, CCCP, & CRVA better embrace hybrid or the ideas of a major portion of employees working from home (WFH). Otherwise, watch more office workers continue to quit and/or switch to more flexible employment options in droves for the next couple of months and sequential years.  The idea of office occupancy as the main or primary reason is changing and soon to be secondary or peripheral of going to the regional activity centers... 

[rancenc]

5 hours ago, kayman said:

Okay, that's not the average consumers' not office workers' problem. The Charlotte Center City Partners (CCCP) and CRVA should become more innovative, aggressive in inducing more primarily non-office mixed used development high-rises and mid-rises, and creatively in finding and creating additional reasons for people to come to Uptown aside from primarily office occupations. There are major trade shows outside the a few automotive, boat display shows. Uptown, CRVA should become major trade center for those whom want to do business at the Charlotte Convention Center. Which inadvertently would induce more exhibition and event space usage and future expansions of the Charlotte Convention Center .

Uptown Charlotte should be the biggest major regional activity center and destination in the region not just a solely office business and work situation gathering place for hotel occupancies.  Please see Downtown Austin, Midtown Atlanta, Uptown Dallas, Midtown Houston, Downtown Miami, etc. type of diversity of activities and uses as best case examples.

Millennials and GenZ professionals are not with the "back to how it used to" pre-pandemic mentality of work occupations.  Those major employers, CCCP, & CRVA better embrace hybrid or the ideas of a major portion of employees working from home (WFH). Otherwise, watch more office workers continue to quit and/or switch to more flexible employment options in droves for the next couple of months and sequential years.  The idea of office occupancy as the main or primary reason is changing and soon to be secondary or peripheral of going to the regional activity centers... 

Me personally, the "I want to work remote" mentality is going be up for a rude awakening in the next 5-10 years when companies start offshoring these types of jobs to outside of the USA! 

https://www.globest.com/2021/06/18/remote-work-can-be-offshored-heres-how-that-would-play-out/?slreturn=20220008181834

[CLT Development]

1 hour ago, rancenc said:

Me personally, the "I want to work remote" mentality is going be up for a rude awakening in the next 5-10 years when companies start offshoring these types of jobs to outside of the USA! 

https://www.globest.com/2021/06/18/remote-work-can-be-offshored-heres-how-that-would-play-out/?slreturn=20220008181834

and most companies are still completely reliant on the buying power of the USA. Systematically devaluing the countries workforce will never happen because it'd be incredibly detrimental for most companies. 

[kayman]

1 hour ago, rancenc said:

Me personally, the "I want to work remote" mentality is going be up for a rude awakening in the next 5-10 years when companies start offshoring these types of jobs to outside of the USA! 

https://www.globest.com/2021/06/18/remote-work-can-be-offshored-heres-how-that-would-play-out/?slreturn=20220008181834

Those major companies might be in a rude awakening if the majority of the future generations all decide work for themselves as entrepreneurs or independent contractors.  That makes up a significant portion of the federal government work is conducted by independent government contractors now. It appears to be increasing regardless of this pandemic. 

https://www.gao.gov/blog/snapshot-government-wide-contracting-fy-2020-infographic

I believe the labor has the keys to power these days and will into the future. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by kayman

[JRCLT]

As a very young adult. I can tell you that I personally would not like to work from home. At least not indefinitely, perhaps flexibility would be something that I’d like could come out of this. Say, you can’t make it to work…WFH is a solution instead of simply not going at all. I may be in the minority I guess, but usually the people at my university and at others that I am acquainted with really see themselves at a work place rather than at a computer at home. As much as older people think we’re heavily reliant on the internet, we do appreciate our personal physical interactions as well. Both are a big part of our lives and I don’t think for the majority of us that one outweighs the other entirely. There are definitely some who would rather spend 24th/7days a week at a computer but most of like being outside and we like to get out of our homes.

**again this just my personal experience and observations. Perhaps I am wrong and what I said isn’t actually true for the majority of the younger generation.

[Norm2]

1 hour ago, JeanClt said:

As a very young adult. I can tell you that I personally would not like to work from home. At least not indefinitely, perhaps flexibility would be something that I’d like could come out of this. Say, you can’t make it to work…WFH is a solution instead of simply not going at all. I may be in the minority I guess, but usually the people at my university and at others that I am acquainted with really see themselves at a work place rather than at a computer at home. As much as older people think we’re heavily reliant on the internet, we do appreciate our personal physical interactions as well. Both are a big part of our lives and I don’t think for the majority of us that one outweighs the other entirely. There are definitely some who would rather spend 24th/7days a week at a computer but most of like being outside and we like to get out of our homes.

**again this just my personal experience and observations. Perhaps I am wrong and what I said isn’t actually true for the majority of the younger generation.

Let me tell you, commuting sucks. A half hour commute isn't so bad, but when you approach an hour each way due to accidents, weather, etc, it gets old really fast.

[JRCLT]

Let me tell you, commuting sucks. A half hour commute isn't so bad, but when you approach an hour each way due to accidents, weather, etc, it gets old really fast.

I currently commute to college more than 30 min each way… I understand. Perhaps it is because I’m still young but I enjoy leaving my home everyday. I guess it also depends on what kind of job you have too. Why work in a cubicle when you can be working more comfortably at home. It makes sense in my opinion if they aren’t very nice or worth all of hassle.

Edit: On occasion I take the blue line from 485 to J.W. station… nearly an hour and half commute. Each. Way. When I’m not in such a rush. Call me crazy.

[KJHburg]

Here is the article about the 1000 room convention hotel"

Tourism execs talk prospects for convention hotel in Charlotte - Charlotte Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

""While no one is pushing for a convention hotel, there is pressure to think about when and where such a project would be built. The preferred 2.3-acre site next to the convention center is in play. Duke Energy Corp. owns the property at 401 S. College St., including a 123,000-square-foot office building the company vacated in 2019. Between September and December, Duke (NYSE: DUK) solicited offers from prospective buyers.   Duke expects to find a buyer by the end of the first quarter.

Mohammad Jenatian, CEO of the Greater Charlotte Hospitality & Tourism Alliance, opposes building a convention hotel now, as he did in 2017 when the idea was proposed. He leaves some wiggle room, though. A convention hotel could make sense, Jenatian believes, if it is anchored by a 125,000-square-foot ballroom, which, he added, would generate significant new business for the region.  Currently, the 40,000-square-foot Crown Ballroom, owned by the city and operated by the visitors authority, is the city’s largest. It’s connected to the NASCAR Hall of Fame and part of the convention center. “I think the city needs to go out there and secure the land adjacent to the convention center,” Jenatian said.""

 

[KJHburg]

this is why the 1000 room hotel by convention center will be a long way off.  Read this about business travel and hotels in Charlotte

https://charlotte.axios.com/284998/when-will-business-travel-in-charlotte-bounce-back/

though I think the city should buy the Duke data center site on S College for "the future". 

[atlrvr]

I disagree on the city being proactive here.  As a tax-payer:

1) Typing up 10's of millions in a property with no set time horizon is a low return unless the cost is expected to significantly increase beyond any alternative.  The reality is the City already own the lot across Caldwell (at Stonewall) which is their alternative site 

2) A private owner would begin paying property taxes, which would be substantial.

3) As soon as the city commits to that site, then any leverage in negotiations a deal for a future hotel development is lost.

I say if it's a great site, let a private developer buy it and put forth 2 proposals.  With and without convention center scale hotel, then there will be accountability if the tax payer is getting a solid investment or not.

In general, I'm somewhat anti-convention center overall, because Charlotte will never be competitive for the high-value conventions, and it's a constant arms race just to keep up with the Indianapolis's and San Antonio's.  It's greatest benefits are tax-payer subsidizing thousands of low-wage service jobs and a couple more hotel high-rises than would exist naturally.

I personally think you could generate better results (jobs and buildings) by investing in areas where Charlotte has established competitive advantages.