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jacksonvillian

Decision on the Haydon Burns library site...

The fate of the Haydon Burns library will be decided this week...Which proposal would you choose?  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. The fate of the Haydon Burns library will be decided this week...Which proposal would you choose?

    • 1. Peterbrooke Chocolate Factory; $1.5M Cash Purchase
      3
    • 2. Ocean Square Mixed-Use; $5M Cash Purchase
      8
    • 3. Main-Branch LLC Mixed-Use; $3.5M Cash Purchase
      5
    • 4. Police & Fire Pention Fund Mixed-Use; $6.5M Credit against Debt
      0
    • 5. Vestcor Properties, Semi-Mixed-Use; $0.00 Purchase, Asks City to demolish building
      0


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Ocean Square is BY FAR the best of the group. I support anything which would densify the area and demolish the existing structure. Also, having been reassured that the building is not stucco, I am fine with the design of the Ocean Square. I hope the city sees the wisdom in this choice also.

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I personally like the idea of Peterbrooke moving in because it is different than any other. If it is anything like Ghirardelli Square in San Francisco then I am all for it.

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Main Branch is the best, in my opinion. We know how much Tony has invested in downtown. He's clearly the type of person who will do things right.

I think the library building is absolutely ugly - but as a matter of general principle, the city should encourage adaptive re-use over demolition if someone is willing to give it a try. (Especially since we have so many parking lots - even city owned lots - where new construction could go).

There's nothing wrong with Ocean Square, per se ... but why not just build the damn thing on one of our dozens of surface parking lots? Several are for sale, and I'm sure they are asking less than $5 million bucks for them. A decent sized (if oddly shaped) lot is on sale, literally across the street.

If I were "dictator of planning" ;) I would award the Burns RFP to Main Branch, and offer Ocean Square a contract for one of the city's many other useless surface lots.

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I'm fine, as long as its rewarded to Ocean Square or Main Branch. Both are offering the most money and both are mixed-use proposals that will fit well on the site.

If I had to chose between the two, I'd probably go with Main Branch, because it includes a letter of intent for a decent sized specialty grocery store in its plans. The downtown residential market would benefit the most, by having a centralized urban market or pharmacy.

however, I'd like to hear a little more about Ocean Square. How many condos will it include? How much retail space? Is the group already involved in negotiations for companies to operated the theater and retail spaces?

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Ocean Square got my vote. With the necessity for downtown residents and downtown entertainment on the table, I think Ocean Square offers the best of both worlds. Yeah, there isn't much of a view of the river, but the city views would be fantastic. Also, a theatre (preferably IMAX) is something that would greatly benefit downtown. I would love to hit an early show at the Imax and then take a stroll down to the Landing for some dinner and a couple drinks (or visa versa) and then a walk on the riverwalk before heading home.

Also if the do build an IMAX theatre they should definitlely show real movies versus the "Bugs" and "NASCAR" movies being shown at the theatre in WGV.

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Yes, Imax can show standard movies. I rememer seeing the Matrix for the first time on an Imax screen (in tallahassee). The WGV Imax has also ventured into showing regular movies but its usually a special edition disney movie or something like that.

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If there's going to be a theatre, there definitely needs to be TONS of convenient parking. The city hasn't quite reached the stage where parking isn't a necessity. The people of this city aren't going to turn out in grand numbers to go to this theatre if it's a hassle to park.

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An IMAX does sound pretty good too. It would definitely draw more people to downtown. The IMAX theatre at the World Golf Village is just too far from my house.

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"[JEDC staff] couldn't get a group of people together before then," said JEDC spokeswoman Jean Moyer. "Another reason [for the delay] was the proposals were very complicated, and they wanted to give the committee members ample time to review them."

^^ This is an important decision and the proposals do differ quite a bit, but to say that they couldn't get a group of people together after nearly a month, is very lame. Maybe these big honchos need to cut out a golf game, and give these companies the consideration they deserve. Time is money. Maybe the two-years-and-counting reorg over there is causing people to slack off.

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They couldnt get the people together?? What the hell have they been doing??? If the people on the JEDC dont have enough interest in the subject, perhaps they should be replaced with people who do. This is a ridiculous delay and oh so typical of the Peyton era. It should take competent people about 24 hours to decide which proposal is best.

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This is exactly why im considering a move to Tampa. Jacksonville just cant get it together, we talk of being progressive and getting things done but we cant even meet simple deadlines. If the companies have to abide by a deadline in which to submit proposals to the city, the city should also be timely in its responses. FIRE THE WHOLE COUNCIL, JEDC, THE MAYOR, EVERYBODY!!! THEYRE A BUNCH OF LAZY KNOW NOTHINGS!! WHAT THE HELL ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR?? The problem is that the council is spoiled. They dont treat the position they have like a real job. If youre late for work, u get written up...same should go for city government positions...If they're late on deadlines and decisions, some sort of reprimand is due :angry:

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This is exactly why im considering a move to Tampa. Jacksonville just cant get it together, we talk of being progressive and getting things done but we cant even meet simple deadlines. If the companies have to abide by a deadline in which to submit proposals to the city, the city should also be timely in its responses. FIRE THE WHOLE COUNCIL, JEDC, THE MAYOR, EVERYBODY!!! THEYRE A BUNCH OF LAZY KNOW NOTHINGS!!  WHAT THE HELL ARE WE PAYING THEM FOR?? The problem is that the council is spoiled. They dont treat the position they have like a real job. If youre late for work, u get written up...same should go for city government positions...If they're late on deadlines and decisions, some sort of reprimand is due  :angry:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you think its bad here, just wait to you make the jump to Tampa. Their city/county government is downright horrible. Just over the past year they've killed the massive Central Park redevelopment project, the streetcar expansion, a proposed citywide light rail system and the proposed Tampa Museum of Art. Their also in favor of demolishing just about every historic building on Franklin Street, despite it being the only piece of landscape in downtown, that gives off the urban feel and architecture of downtown's booming heydays. Jax's government has definately taken a hit with the new administration, but I don't think its sunk to the levels of Tampa's government yet.

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If you think its bad here, just wait to you make the jump to Tampa.  Their city/county government is downright horrible.  Just over the past year they've killed the massive Central Park redevelopment project, the streetcar expansion, a proposed citywide light rail system and the proposed Tampa Museum of Art.  Their also in favor of demolishing just about every historic building on Franklin Street, despite it being the only piece of landscape in downtown, that gives off the urban feel and architecture of downtown's booming heydays.  Jax's government has definately taken a hit with the new administration, but I don't think its sunk to the levels of Tampa's government yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right Lake, I was over-exaggerating a lil' bit and just wanted to vent. But its very frustrating when half of the projects in Jacksonville are delayed b/c of the city. It makes us look bad in the eyes of developers, very bad.

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La Florida - Lakelander and Riverside are right, don't move to Tampa. If you think Jax government is bad ... you'll have a heart attack with Tampa.

However, I absolutely 100% agree with you that our city council (and committees) don't take their jobs seriously enough. Nearly all of them have other full-time employment and numerous obligations that they seem to place over city governance.

We need city coucilmen who will treat their terms as their full-time, primary job. Committees should have more leeway; however significant failure to make meetings should result in dismissal and the appointment of a replacement. This is Peyton's responsibility.

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I really figured with Peytons background with Gate that he'd do better than this. I'd take Delaney back in a heartbeat. Maybe Weinstein will run again.

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Not soon enough.

Election in '06.

Fun Fact: Peyton is only the second Republican in 100 years to be elected mayor.

I find it odd being that Jacksonville is such a Republican city.

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And I think you Tampans who are warining off jacksonvillians would at least have to acknowledge that, in Tampa, the private sector is driving development and creating amenities (and the impetus for more amenities) in the downtown core.

Perhaps soon we'll see the private sector loosed in Northbank-Jax. Maybe Novarre or Churchill, et.al.

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^Yes, the private sector is fueling the redevelopment of downtown Tampa, similar to the why the private sector is behind the booming Riverside, Springfield and San Marco neighborhoods.

However, I think the tide is turning in downtown Jax, as well. Riverpointe, JEA's Southside buyer, San Marco Riverwalk, Haydon Burns redevelopment are all examples of downtown private projects not requiring incentives from the city.

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