Hartford vs Providence?

[Garris]

Wow, tons of movement in this thread today!

the east side/college hill is not downtown providence.  you can't compare it to downtown new haven.  brown just wasn't built downtown.  just like you can't compare harlem (where columbia is located) to downtown NYC. 

First, College Hill/Brown, while not in Providence's Central Business District, is only 2-4 blocks (depending upon the location) from Kennedy Plaza. That's pretty darn close to downtown! I consider it part of the "core" city. By the same standard you apply, Yale isn't in downtown New Haven since it's several blocks from the CT Trade Center, Courthouse, and business district.

Second, Columbia is most definitely NOT in Harlem, but in Morningside Heights (the Medical complex is in Washington Heights). Similarly, I think the Columbia folks would (rightly) take offense at Columbia not being considered part of the core and fabric of NYC.

don't count new haven out as being a major northeastern city. 

It's possible for this to happen, but several scenarios would have to play out, and the momentum in the city would have to move beyond Yale, which might be difficult, since they own so much of the city.

what are these several fortune 1000 companies in providence? 

AriPVD addressed this nicely... Neither city is setting their respective economies on fire, but again, a lot of the movement in NH (especially in biotech) has been directly pushed by Yale.

yale is the 10th largest employer in the state of CT

And I'm sure they wish they weren't! Yale (unfortunately) has some of the most toxic employee relations in the nation of any university.

yale had to do what it's doing to the downtown area, but they've also gotten help from the city and the people of the city. 

True more recently, but I lived there in the early to mid 90's when the angry city goverment (and especially it's residents) seemed intent on taking Yale down. I still remember all of those "Tax Yale!" bumper stickers. I remember a number of us talking about how NH seemed to have some of the most entitled residents of any place any of us had ever lived, and that it seemed the city was going to have to hit rock bottom before folks woke up (and it did, and the city, with the help of DeStefano, did wake up).

new haven has what it takes to be a major city, but the state isn't giving it any help.  95

It's not CT's fault, but certainly the state's policies don't help one iota...

i've also heard thoughts about dropping it below ground by long wharf to connect it to the rest of the city. 

It would be a great idea and I hope it happens, but I'll believe it when I see it. Frankly, Providence would benefit from a move like that far more than NH.

most of the revitilization that occurred in providence was from dirty money from cianci. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Completely untrue, as Ari addressed... Read "Providence: The Renaissance City" for the true history...

Someone also mentioned mass transit to NYC being a big advantage, and that's one area, while the comment about MetroNorth was true, I feel the region is already too NYC focused (NH included) for its own good...

Again, I love NH and love Providence, but I think the cities have too different immediate destinies...

I think that NH should be aiming to CT's Burlington equivalent... Meaning that they should aim to be the best, most livable, most cool, most funky college town possible. NH starts to get into trouble historically in its development, planning, architecture, finances, etc when it starts to have delusions of grandeur and starts to think big. There's a great urban planning book that is a 50 year run down of all of NH's problems with thinking big. If I were NH, I'd think small and think cool. Leave the convention centers, stadiums, museums, airports, etc to Hartford and Providence and instead focus on restaurants, boutiques, movie theaters, downtown living, and catering to students and visitors. Yale and NH would both benefit.

Providence, meanwhile, has the more immediate breakout potential to be a regional and quasi-national player, like a Baltimore, Portland, or Fort Worth. A city that, while not the biggest player in its area, is a social, economic, and entertainment destination worthy of some national attention. While I certainly don't want to see Brown remotely try to play the role here Yale does in NH (Brown, in my opinion, barely does a decent enough job of managing itself), I wish they'd push some more spinoffs and development of engineering and biotech in a way the city can see and feel, kind of a larger version of what J&W and RISD have been doing on a smaller scale. I really think that would help stoke PVD's fire a bit.

- Garris

Happy Providence resident, happy Yale alum...

[KRC]

most of the revitilization that occurred in providence was from dirty money from cianci.  without that, the community would have nothing to work off of.  just like without the help from yale, the community would have nothing to work off of.  but the city government in new haven is pushing to make it better without the help of the mob.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You had my attention with everything you said until just now. Clearly you know nothing about Providence and it's obvious that you are pumping up New Haven by knocking other places to make it appear nicer than it really is. I'm glad you have pride in New Haven. I'm sure New Haven is somewhat nicer than it appears to outsiders, but it's really still is not all that.

Regarding Providence, please get your facts straight. Dirty money? Do you know the history of the Providence Renassaince? Do you have any idea how it got started, by whom and how the money came about to pay for it? It doesn't appear you do. I'll be the first to admit that there is plenty of room for improvement for our fair city, but we don't need to denigrate other places to make ourselves feel good about our hometown. I'm not looking for a tit for tat here, just asking that you not respresent as fact what you know little about. There are a couple of great books about Providence you may wish to read. I think you'll enjoy them. "The Providence Renassaince" and "The Prince of Providence" will help you understand the history a bit better. Both give you different perspectives....they also don't hide the bad stuff either.

[KRC]

"The Providence Renassaince" and "The Prince of Providence" will help you understand the history a bit better.  Both give you different perspectives....they also don't hide the bad stuff either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oops! It's "Providence: The Renassaince City." Sorry about that. I even knew it was wrong with I typed it. I should have just walked across the room to get my copy of the book to validate my facts. Again, sorry!

[runawayjim]

"i'll add to this... the providence airport can get you to a lot of cities easily... but not all (not even major ones like atlanta) without some sort of layover"

You don't obviously know about Providences airport. After Boston and Hartford, Providence is next in terms of passengers and flights. And yes you can get to most major cities from Providence, its a airline called Delta with 6-7 non stop flights to Atlanta from T.F. Green.

I will agree Providence is a little ahead of Hartford when it comes to apeal and night life, but Hartford is not far behind and in the future will over take Providence. Hartford's night life actually is not half bad, most people just have never cared to experience it. Hartford's art scene is good with the Hartford Stage, Bushnell, and Wadsworth. There is a much bigger arena, bigger convention center, and home to many more business in the greater Hartford area than Providence. I hate my city is better than your city disscussions but most people who bash Hartford have never set foot in the city and experienced what it has to offer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i also went to uconn. i've spent my time in hartford. i've been to hartford stage. i've been to my share of concerts at the civic center and meadows. i've even been to the convention center (but not the new one they're building now).

hartford's nightlife consists of a handful of bars/clubs in one small corner of the city. providence's nightlife is spread out over many bars and clubs all over the city. because of this, people are on the streets at night all over and not just in that one small safe place. hartford is listed in the top 10 (it's #8 i believe) most dangerous cities in the country. it needs to get off that list before it can even think about surpassing providence. hartford's population is decreasing. it used to be second in population to bridgeport (mainly because bridgeport was in the most heavily populated part of the state), but new haven has overcome that. hartford does have a bit of an arts scene, but it doesn't compare to what new haven and providence have. the size of the convention center is nothing important in my opinion. i don't even know how convention centers gained such importance to a city. the hartford civic center has only 2000 seats more than the dunk. that doesn't make it that much bigger. the civic center is also in a location that makes it more difficult to get to than the dunk (which is right off the highway).

what hartford lacks that providence has that will keep hartford far behind providence is the amount of people who want to live there. while i'm not sure building luxury apartments downtown is the best idea for providence (we need more moderate places for people like me!), it does show that there is an interest in moving to providence. i feel safe walking around much of providence at night. i don't feel that way in hartford (you wander 2 blocks from those bars and it's not the safest area).

hartford needs to clean up the streets before it can step up to the plate. once that happens, then we'll see...

[Cotuit]

I think the fact that this turned into a New Haven vs. Providence discussion, says a lot about Hartford.

[Cotuit]

he brought the special olympics world games to the city (has providence ever had something of international magnitude held in the city?).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Providence has hosted the Gravity Games and X-Games in the 90s. We also hosted the Triple-A Baseball All-Star Game with Pawtucket last year.

They're not massive events, but thruthfully, neither is the Special Olympics. Though a very worthy event, the Special Olympics don't really attract much mainstream attention.

[AriPVD]

Intra-city battles are a waste of time. If you love cities, you should hope that Providence, New Haven and Hartford all thrive.

[Cotuit]

Intra-city battles are a waste of time.  If you love cities, you should hope that Providence, New Haven and Hartford all thrive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, as far as city vs. threads goes, this is actually a pretty good one. I'm usually hell-bent opposed to these kind of threads, but I haven't had to do any moderation with this one.

Thanks everyone!

[runawayjim]

Providence has hosted the Gravity Games and X-Games in the 90s. We also hosted the Triple-A Baseball All-Star Game with Pawtucket last year.

They're not massive events, but thruthfully, neither is the Special Olympics. Though a very worthy event, the Special Olympics don't really attract much mainstream attention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, i forgot about the gravity and x games... the special olympics in and of itself don't attract much attention. the world games did though. the city was nuts while they were there and there were people from all over the world in new haven. that was in the mid-late 90's. unfortunately, the city didn't use it enough to really help turn things around. it was as if they came and went and the city was back to normal afterwards.

i don't really enjoy this vs that discussions myself... but i don't think those arguing against new haven have really spent much time there. i grew up just outside and lived just outside of it almost my whole life. my family is originally from new haven. i never, at any point, said that providence isn't a great city. i live here now and i love it and i want to see it continue to thrive and grow (just hopefully not towards unaffordable rents like boston did, which is why i'm sort of anti-luxury apartments downtown). but new haven has a lot more to offer than meets the eye. it's not the most beautiful city to look at when travelling in, but once you're there, it's got a lot of culture. yes, it uses new york for a lot, but you can't say providence is completely on it's own without boston. and honestly, i don't see providence becoming the major player that so many here think it will so long as boston is just an hour away... and that's not a bad thing (boston is near the bottom of my favorite cities list, it's just a nightmare, even new york is easier to travel in and out of)... i tend to follow music and i've seen a lot of bands skip over providence because it's so close to boston (these are bands that don't play the tweeter center, which is closer to prov than boston).

and hartford... well, let it be new england's rising star (as they like to call it), but i haven't seen it rise to anything yet... and i've been going into hartford for several yaers now... it has yet to do anything big to stand out, other than be new england's only city on the most dangerous cities list. it could have a lot more going for it, but the people of hartford just don't care.

[Garris]

the special olympics in and of itself don't attract much attention. 

I was there for that when it happened, and while a great event, it did zippo for the city. Folks in NH, anticipating congestion and traffic, took off out of town, and it felt like not a single person there for the Special Olympics came downtown. Shops were totally empty. I could have splayed myself on College Street and not been hit by a single car for hours. It felt like the place was absolutely deserted. You could hear the Special Olympics banners the city put up flapping in the breeze it was so quiet.

I think everyone, especially the local retail community, when it was done, felt like it was a large net negative. Too bad...

That's my point, though. If I were NH, I wouldn't be bothering with things like that. Stick to arts, culture, music, and restaurants.

i live here now and i love it and i want to see it continue to thrive and grow (just hopefully not towards unaffordable rents like boston did, which is why i'm sort of anti-luxury apartments downtown). 

It's a different argument, but you need the luxury apts downtown to create the market and the "address." Once that's done, more affordable stuff will come because they'll be a new demand and they'll be money to be made (see the Saki's condos and Strand condos...). It won't all be luxury.

but new haven has a lot more to offer than meets the eye.  it's not the most beautiful city to look at when travelling in, but once you're there, it's got a lot of culture.  yes, it uses new york for a lot, but you can't say providence is completely on it's own without boston. 

I agree that NH has more to offer than people think, especially on the culture front, where arguably more happens on a broader spectrum than in Providence (NH has better theater, more and better classical music, more museums I'd like to visit than Prov).

I think the NYC thing is still a big problem. I know way, way more people in NH who use the NYC metro for arts, entertainment, diversions on a regular basis (sometimes every weekend) than I know people in Providence who regularly head up to Boston for the same (Red Sox games excepted).

and honestly, i don't see providence becoming the major player that so many here think it will so long as boston is just an hour away... and that's not a bad thing (boston is near the bottom of my favorite cities list, it's just a nightmare, even new york is easier to travel in and out of)... ight]

I think it depends upon your definition of "major." I think it can have a minimal region and national rep. For example, the small city of LaCrosse, WI has absolutely no national name recognition and even fairly minimal regional recognition, but it's decently sized. I don't even think many people think of Madison, WI at all much either. But Portland has a national rep as a destination city. People hear of job opportunities there and don't think, "Hum, is that a good place to go? I don't know anything about it." When I told people I was heading to Providence, I started to hear things like, "Oh, that's great. I hear that's a city on the upswing and a nice place to live." Even in the Midwest. I think Prov needs to build on that and keep raising its profile. It'll make it easier to keep/lure businesses and jobs here.

- Garris

[runawayjim]

I think the NYC thing is still a big problem.  I know way, way more people in NH who use the NYC metro for arts, entertainment, diversions on a regular basis (sometimes every weekend) than I know people in Providence who regularly head up to Boston for the same (Red Sox games excepted). 

I think it depends upon your definition of "major."  I think it can have a minimal region and national rep.  For example, the small city of LaCrosse, WI has absolutely no national name recognition and even fairly minimal regional recognition, but it's decently sized.  I don't even think many people think of Madison, WI at all much either.  But Portland has a national rep as a destination city.  People hear of job opportunities there and don't think, "Hum, is that a good place to go?  I don't know anything about it."  When I told people I was heading to Providence, I started to hear things like, "Oh, that's great.  I hear that's a city on the upswing and a nice place to live."  Even in the Midwest.  I think Prov needs to build on that and keep raising its profile.  It'll make it easier to keep/lure businesses and jobs here.

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i know a lot of people who have been living in providence who prefer boston. i don't even understand why. boston is such a mess of a city right now. providence, in my opinion, has a better arts and culture scene. sure they got more theatre, but that's because there's more people and theatres. i think the actual quality of the arts scene here is above and beyond what boston has. there's also a lot more culture in providence than boston because the population is far more mixed than boston's.

i've been places and told people (intelligent people even) i was from providence and they were like "where is that?". so i guess it depends on who you talk to...

the one thing providence really needs is more business. i'm still not sold on the luxury apartments though... i think they're building enough of those...

[eltron]

There is another very real possiblity. The luxury dwellings are quite successful, downcity turns the corner into becomming the hippest city 'hood to live in, and prices rise even further, as demand outstrips supply once again. The building of luxury condo's in Boston certainly has not resulted in lower overall housing prices. I know I am comparing apples and oranges to some extent, but...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. With a market as constrained as RI's, the simple supply and demand model does not work.

Now, back to New Haven. I had a brief experience this past winter in New Haven attending my girlfriend's grandmother's funeral. The funeral home was in an older section of NH about 4 blocks west of Yale (I know nothing of the geography of NH). During the wake, I was looking to go for a walk somewhere in search of beverages, and asked one of the funeral attendants where I could walk (older italian fellow). He looked at me funny and said you wouldn't want to walk around the neighborhood, as it's "not so good." My GF's family, from the "white flight" generation, said the same exact thing. Needless to say, I did not heed their advice and went for a lovely walk to a Rite Aid and saw some excellent brick rowhouses and victorians. beautiful old neighborhood. But that old attitude about New Haven certainly persists amongst the older generation (not to mention my GF's 87 year old Aunt remarking in a frighteningly cute old lady way "that used to be the nicest old church until the blacks moved in...")...

Other impressions? New Haven is much smaller than Providence. Very small downtown, even smaller than the miniscule PVD downtown, and the urban boundary of NH just seems to literally end (by the Yale Bowl I think) and peter out into really low-density suburb. The neighborhood just ends on a razor sharp line. very different than PVD. But I really liked the housing opportunities around yale. Rough around the edges, but in many ways more urban (with rowhouses) than say the west side of PVD.

anyway, back to whining about which city is better...

[runawayjim]

True. With a market as constrained as RI's, the simple supply and demand model does not work.

Now, back to New Haven. I had a brief experience this past winter in New Haven attending my girlfriend's grandmother's funeral. The funeral home was in an older section of NH about 4 blocks west of Yale (I know nothing of the geography of NH). During the wake, I was looking to go for a walk somewhere in search of beverages, and asked one of the funeral attendants where I could walk (older italian fellow). He looked at me funny and said you wouldn't want to walk around the neighborhood, as it's "not so good." My GF's family, from the "white flight" generation, said the same exact thing. Needless to say, I did not heed their advice and went for a lovely walk to a Rite Aid and saw some excellent brick rowhouses and victorians. beautiful old neighborhood. But that old attitude about New Haven certainly persists amongst the older generation (not to mention my GF's 87 year old Aunt remarking in a frighteningly cute old lady way "that used to be the nicest old church until the blacks moved in...")...

Other impressions? New Haven is much smaller than Providence. Very small downtown, even smaller than the miniscule PVD downtown, and the urban boundary of NH just seems to literally end (by the Yale Bowl I think) and peter out into really low-density suburb. The neighborhood just ends on a razor sharp line. very different than PVD. But I really liked the housing opportunities around yale. Rough around the edges, but in many ways more urban (with rowhouses) than say the west side of PVD.

anyway, back to whining about which city is better...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

funny... you get that in almost any city (especially in RI) from people who lived there when you didn't walk around at night. the city is beautiful and the brownstones are amazing. the historic section by wooster square is gorgeous. much of providence has a very suburban feel to it. the mount pleasant section and parts of elmhurst especially, but also much of the east side and parts of the north end as well. it doesn't seem like a city. much of new haven is like this. the whole east side of new haven on the other side of the river is like that, especially near the shore and east haven. the westville section is the same.

new haven's downtown is smaller than providence's because new haven is not the capital city. bridgeport, the largest city in CT, also has a tiny downtown (smaller than hartford's).

however, where you did walk is not one of the nicer sections of new haven. i have walked around there at night and it's not that dangerous. there's much worse areas. it can probably be compared with the armory district in that many people think it's dangerous, but it's really not all that bad.

[ruchele]

Regarding New Haven- My brother and sister-in-law are moving out of New Haven after four years (and possibly coming to Providence). Their main frustration is that Yale is more or less the only show in town, and there are few opportunities if you aren't working for Yale in some capacity. They feel like Yale's influence completely controls the economy, the job market, and the housing market, and that there are few cultural opportunities that aren't somehow dependent on the university. Even in terms of community, they are frustrated that many of the friends they have made move out of town once their job or studies at Yale end. They feel that there is nothing there that holds people in New Haven besides either personal poverty or affiliation with the university.

Providence has lots more schools, and I think the presence of the schools brings many positive things to the city, but the academic world certainly isn't the only show in town here, especially out of the East Side. Also, I have always found it fascinating how many people do come here for school, like it, and decide to stay. Some very large percentage of RISD graduates stay in Providence or RI after graduation, for example. I know that's how my family, and many of the families grew up with, ended up here.

[runawayjim]

Regarding New Haven-  My brother and sister-in-law are moving out of New Haven after four years (and possibly coming to Providence).  Their main frustration is that Yale is more or less the only show in town, and there are few opportunities if you aren't working for Yale in some capacity.  They feel like Yale's influence completely controls the economy, the job market, and the housing market, and that there are few cultural opportunities that aren't somehow dependent on the university.  Even in terms of community, they are frustrated that many of the friends they have made move out of town once their job or studies at Yale end.  They feel that there is nothing there that holds people in New Haven besides either personal poverty or affiliation with the university. 

Providence has lots more schools, and I think the presence of the schools brings many positive things to the city, but the academic world certainly isn't the only show in town here, especially out of the East Side.  Also, I have always found it fascinating how many people do come here for school, like it, and decide to stay.  Some very large percentage of RISD graduates stay in Providence or RI after graduation, for example.  I know that's how my family, and many of the families grew up with, ended up here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

regarding the RISD graduates that remain in providence after graduation... they might be an isolated group. there's nothing going on for science or technology in providence. business majors can probably get jobs at the banks, and law/econ/poli sci with the law firms and gov't, but other than that, there's not much. i agree that it's similar with new haven, but new haven does have some tech and some science going on. yale has science and medical research jobs. why doesn't brown have more going on or why isn't brown bringing in more companies? yale is what brought pfizer to new haven. i just don't see a lot of job opportunities in providence unless you work for one of the colleges or you work for the state.

[Cotuit]

why doesn't brown have more going on or why isn't brown bringing in more companies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because Brown isn't Yale. Brown has the smallest endowment of any Ivy League school. It's wedged between Yale and Harvard which are arguably the top Ivy League schools in the country and collectively steal it's thunder. And frankly, it's not Brown's job to develop the Providence economy, it's the mayor and governor's jobs.

[runawayjim]

I also agree that there is not enough going on downtown to make it feel like a "real" city center, especially at night.  Where are all these people going to go for beer and coffee?  Where do you get pizza at 1:00 am?  Restaurants close at 9:30 or 10:00, and there's hardly even any takeout!  If I had the money, I would open three cafes, three neighborhood bars, two corner groceries (NOT another 7-11), three great, cheap restaurants with late-night delivery and a hardware store downtown (The cultural opportunities already exist.) Then it will start to feel like the "city living" everyone is going on about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i am shocked at the lack of anything open 24 hours around here. in CT (yes, i grew up there), there's 24 hour diners within 15 of almost anywhere (at least where there are people). there are pizza places open in parts of the city until 1am. it's not the best pizza, but it's not the worst. frankly's is open until midnight during the week and until 2 on friday and saturday nights. it's on the corner of douglas and admiral, near PC. i think golden crust on oakland ave is open late too. but there's nothing open 24 hours that i know of. i'd like a good diner. the only place i've been to is this crappy place on the corner of charles st and mineral spring in north prov. it was like a wannabe diner with only a partial late night menu. and the food sucked. someone once told m there's a diner downtown near kennedy plaza, but i haven't been there or heard anything else of it (of course he's thinking back 15-20 years).

[runawayjim]

Because Brown isn't Yale. Brown has the smallest endowment of any Ivy League school. It's wedged between Yale and Harvard which are arguably the top Ivy League schools in the country and collectively steal it's thunder. And frankly, it's not Brown's job to develop the Providence economy, it's the mayor and governor's jobs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i don't think it's brown's job to develop the economy, but i do think brown should try to help keep its graduates in the area. it would also help make brown more attractive if there was more around here. that's part of the reason yale got pfizer into new haven. it almost didn't happen, but they worked it out. it helps give students more hands on work. i know most of the students at PC can't wait to leave providence when they graduate. but PC has enough financial problems of it's own...

[ruchele]

it would also help make brown more attractive if there was more around here. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ummm. . . I wasn't aware Brown had any problem attracting potential students.

Somebody told me that there is a whole ad spread in the back of the Brown alumni magazine about the new condos downtown, emphasizing "Providence is better than you remember!" or something like that.

[virgo20]

Providence still needs a LOT of work B4 we can say that a true "renaissance" has taken place. I agree with runawayjim 100 %. There is not much here culturally and the business atmosphere here is below average. The majority of our neighborhoods are devoid of basic services.The entertainment and culture scene has been better in previous years than today. The NIMBY's that are the ones in demand for these high-end developments object anything that may minutely alter their life.(i.e. State House view) Prov. has always (at least in the past) been recognized in New England as a destination for arts and entertainment.The city needs to recognize that condo and high-end development will not stabilize our economy for long-term growth.We need to make our neighborhoods livable with basic services so that everyone can fully realize the potential of a strong metropolitan area.Wayland Sq. and the East Side cannot accomodate everyone.When these neighborhoods mature, both culturally and economically, only then can Prov. look ahead and expect long term growth.(ex. Boston's Main Streets program)We need to embrace new artistic and entertainment initiatives and stop this narcissistic view that we have to be Boston's younger sibling.If you want to see Prov. grow, I know of 3 things that would jumpstart real progressive growth.

1.) Eliminate the stupid nighttime parking ban.

2.) Eliminate the 2am close at entertainment establishments.(People will

gradually leave these places and not cause one big melee at the end

of the night.A downtown devoid of nightspots is not a downtown.It's a

boring barrio in an average middle sized city with average

neighborhoods.Someone should infom these new yuppie residents

that they are moving into an "ARTS and ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT!!!"

3.)Improve signage in and around Prov. area.(ex. entering Prov. Metro

pop. 1.3 million.,Metropolitan parkways-i.e. North Main,Broad St.,

Chalkstone,Branch, Atwells, Cranston,Broadway...etc.and linking these

"boulevards"with our sister cities.It creates an illusion of a strong

area united together for economic development.We have such a large

metro area and we don't capitalize on that. T.F. Green Airport is in

Warwick, but it plays such amajor part in our revitalization.Imagine

the city being the focused center of such an important area.

These ideas will lure many people to Prov. and will help contribute to LONG term growth.There are many things that need to be done, but this would give us a solid foundation. Thanks...

[CtownMikey]

I somewhat agree with you virgo..

and hopefully everyone agrees with me when I say that numbers 1 and 3 are really not too far from becoming a reality.. as well as # 2, which will most likely take a bit more time.

[Frankie811]

[runawayjim]

It's called Haven Bros and their main fare is hot dogs ( $2.00 ) It's parked every night along side city hall. I still can't figure out what it is about those dogs that people like so much 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it's parked? that's not what i call a diner... i'm talking a permanent establishment. we don't need hotdog carts (although those would be good during the day), we need actual restaurants that are open 24 hours. every city has one, except providence. even new haven and hartford do. there's nothing open late night around here. all the restaurants close early or stop serving food early and then bars close at 1 or 2 (i'm honestly shocked that there's a law closing certain bars at 1).

[runawayjim]

ummm. . . I wasn't aware Brown had any problem attracting potential students. 

Somebody told me that there is a whole ad spread in the back of the Brown alumni magazine about the new condos downtown, emphasizing "Providence is better than you remember!" or something like that.

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maybe not attracting students, but getting their graduates to stay in the area. they seem totally removed from the city. there's not enough jobs in the city that really require a higher education, other than working in education.

in regards to what virgo said... he's exactly right. although i do disagree with him when he said that there's not much here culturally, but it could be better. i think there's more culture here than in boston, personally. i think in order for providence to grow, we need to get the idea out of our heads that we're going to be this major northeastern metropolis and work with what we've got going for us. we have a strong artistic community, we have good restaurants, we have good culture. go with that. the parking ban does need to go away, is that really in the works? and the 2am close of bars and clubs... that's not an uncommon thing, at least around here. MA is the same way, as well as CT, but i've never seen a bottleneck trying to leave downtown at 2 in any other city. maybe that's because there's no good public transportation here so everyone hops in their cars (many still drunk) and tries to leave at the same time. get ripta to have a night owl service that runs until an hour after bars close or something. we also need a better way in and out of the city than 95 and 195... why is there no light rail coming in? the tracks exist. why does MBTA not run into providence on the weekends? it's the second largest city on the route.

this stuff needs to change in order to improve the city. the parking ban would be a great start. in fact, they could even do it the way boston has it setup with parking permits. pay a fee per year for a permit and make certain streets resident only parking (don't do it by neighborhood though because the city is too small for that).

[gregw]

It's been parked there every night since like the 1890s. I would consider that pretty permanent.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...cial_s%26sa%3DG

it's parked?  that's not what i call a diner... i'm talking a permanent establishment.  we don't need hotdog carts (although those would be good during the day), we need actual restaurants that are open 24 hours.  every city has one, except providence.  even new haven and hartford do.  there's nothing open late night around here.  all the restaurants close early or stop serving food early and then bars close at 1 or 2 (i'm honestly shocked that there's a law closing certain bars at 1).

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