Hartford vs Providence?

[Cotuit]

Thanks for mentioning the train station.  If you like train stations, this one is a must see.  It has all the details runawayjim mentioned, and has cool retro-futuristic, chrome lined tunnels to the train platforms probably built in the 1970's that had to be inspired by the TWA terminal at Kennedy in NYC...  They're a real shock after the beautiful, stoic, and classical waiting room in the train station.  Too bad the train station doesn't have better access to downtown...

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I spent a long afternoon in that train station after September 11th. I took a runner from Manhattan and hopped a MetroNorth to New Haven, had to wait most of the day for an Amtrak to arrive and take me the rest of the way to Boston. It's a stunning station, but unfortunately there's nothing nearby to go to when you're killing time waiting for a train (I smoked two packs of cigarettes that afternoon).

[runawayjim]

I spent a long afternoon in that train station after September 11th. I took a runner from Manhattan and hopped a MetroNorth to New Haven, had to wait most of the day for an Amtrak to arrive and take me the rest of the way to Boston. It's a stunning station, but unfortunately there's nothing nearby to go to when you're killing time waiting for a train (I smoked two packs of cigarettes that afternoon).

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hopefully with the demolition of the colisseum, they'll start moving the city towards that direction with whatever they rebuild down there. there are a couple of shady bars not that far from there, but the train station isn't in the nicest of areas.

[uconn99]

"Delta isn't the only airliner serving PVD. US AIR, Southwest, Continental, Northwest, American, Independence, Spirit and Air Canada fly in here as well. Also Cape Air. And there are many non-stops from PVD which I've listed below. Get your facts straight."

If you read the previous post a person said he "couldn't get to atlanta non stop from providence" My reply was not saying Providence only had Delta as a airline but the only airline who could indeed get you to Atlanta non stop. Before you go and bash me you might want to consider reading previous posts.

With that being said, PVD will always be New England's third biggest airport.

[Garris]

hopefully with the demolition of the colisseum, they'll start moving the city towards that direction with whatever they rebuild down there.  there are a couple of shady bars not that far from there, but the train station isn't in the nicest of areas.

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If I remember correctly, there are also one or two run down apartment complexes across the street with some shady characters... Is there a shuttle that runs at all between the Station and Downtown? I was thinking of going to NH to do some photography, and the only way I could think of getting downtown was taking a cab...

- Garris

[runawayjim]

If I remember correctly, there are also one or two run down apartment complexes across the street with some shady characters...  Is there a shuttle that runs at all between the Station and Downtown?  I was thinking of going to NH to do some photography, and the only way I could think of getting downtown was taking a cab...

- Garris

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if you walk a couple blocks to the colisseum, you can take the ct transit but. i also think it might actually go as far as the train station. it's been a while since i've used public transportation down there. it's not a terribly long walk either... but i wouldn't want to do it at night if that was your plan.

The Sargent Drive bus looks like it goes there and hits close to downtown (close enough to walk the rest of your way or make a connection). they need more buses that go to the train station. i was travelling to NYC from branford and i took the dattco bus in. it drops you off near the collisseum (the downtown side of it). so i had to walk a few blocks to the train station. not a bad walk, but again, not something i'd want to do at night alone.

[Frankie811]

With that being said, PVD will always be New England's third biggest airport.

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PVD must, and probably will extend it's main runway to accommadate larger jets with bigger loads and passengers to the west coast and to international destinations. To say that PVD will always be NE's third biggest airport is foolish and short sighted.

[Baines]

PVD must, and probably will extend it's main runway to accommadate larger jets with bigger loads and passengers to the west coast and to international destinations. To say that PVD will always be NE's third biggest airport is foolish and short sighted.

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Totally agree Frankie811...

Providence is currently rated as New England's best and will certainly, with proper growth management, be second only to that horror show in Boston.

[uconn99]

The only way PVD would ever over take BDL for New England's second biggest airport is if they build a longer runway, and that seems a ways away with all the nimbys in the area. BDL currently has more destinations, more passengers, and as of a year ago a nicer terminal. BDL has room to grow, PVD is land locked. BDL has more business travel and this year is out pacing PVD in growth. June saw PVD passenger numbers increase by 4.5% while BDL rose by 12%. If anyone is oging to get international service in New England on a daily basis it would be BDL, PVD is too close to BOS to ever get daily transatlantic service.

[HartfordTycoon]

Well, I think there's no turning back at this point. But I agree with you, I'd like to see this residential boom Downcity peter out. There's plenty of places to build housing outside Downcity, even right on it's fringes. The problem is, how do we trigger those white collar jobs? There's no question we need them, but how do we get them to come here?

I'm also not too concered (yet) about not having room for those offices when they finally decide they want to be here. There's still plenty of space left. Various open parcels, the Capital Center area behind Citizens, Phase II of Waterplace, all that 195 land...

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And not to stir up a debate but this is why I say Hartford will be ahead of Prov. when we do get housing to take off downtown, like it's begining to. We already have the Jobs and the big Companies downtown. All we need is the housing, more dining, and shopping and we will be where we need to be.

[Frankie811]

Well, I think there's no turning back at this point. But I agree with you, I'd like to see this residential boom Downcity peter out. There's plenty of places to build housing outside Downcity, even right on it's fringes. The problem is, how do we trigger those white collar jobs? There's no question we need them, but how do we get them to come here?

I'm also not too concered (yet) about not having room for those offices when they finally decide they want to be here. There's still plenty of space left. Various open parcels, the Capital Center area behind Citizens, Phase II of Waterplace, all that 195 land...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And not to stir up a debate but this is why I say Hartford will be ahead of Prov. when we do get housing to take off downtown, like it's begining to. We already have the Jobs and the big Companies downtown. All we need is the housing, more dining, and shopping and we will be where we need to be.

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I'd like to see a poll done asking residents of cities and towns surrounding Hartford if they would consider moving to downtown Hartford.

[HartfordTycoon]

I would agree with Cotuit in large measure. Almost all cities of 150,000-300,000 have little activity in the downtown area after 6PM unless they have a large mix of residential or continuous entertainment (very rare).

There is plenty of commerical/corporate opportunities in Downcity, the Jewelry District, and in the space that will open up with Rt 195...making it a bigger city.

The real issue is who wants to do it. They are several Providence metro corporations that can do it - BUT WILL THEY? As to any new large business moving their HQ to Providence, that would require an economic reason to leave Boston and a good transportation system between the two metros. Right now, Providence has no economic competitive edge over Boston...just a much more "livable" big city.

Again, the state and city have to create the opportunity for developers.

By the way, Providence is not, nor will it ever be, an urban suburb of Boston - that defies all socio/economic/geographic/political realities. It is Boston's only NE competitor; even with the size difference.

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I would actually say Hartford is the only NE competiter in terms of business presence in the central city. Again, not to start a debate here. The numbers don't lie. I don't have them to post right now, but I've seen them and they don't lie. While the Insurance Capital of the world may no longer be a valid claim, remember we once were. We still have many insurance and financial services companies downtown like Travelers, Pheonix, ING, Prudential, Bank of America, The Hartford, Aetna, United Technologies, and Hartford Steam Boiler just to name a few of the largest. I don't think Providence will ever have a corporate presence to rival Hartford. But I am admittedly biased.

[virgo20]

I would actually say Hartford is the only NE competiter in terms of business presence in the central city. Again, not to start a debate here. The numbers don't lie. I don't have them to post right now, but I've seen them and they don't lie. While the Insurance Capital of the world may no longer be a valid cliam, remember we once were. We still have many insurance and financial services companies downtown like Travelers, Pheonix, ING, Prudential, Bank of America, The Hartford, Aetna, United Technologies, and Hartford Steam Boiler just to name a few of the largest. I don't think Providence will ever have a corporate presence to rival Hartford. But I am admittedly biased.

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I lived in Hartford in 1998-1999. The city is a very dangerous place after dark.I witnessed crime in plain view of everyone right on Asylum Street downtown. There is not 1 safe neighborhood within city limits. The people have such a negative perception of anything positive for the city. I wish the "Heartbeat" all good fortune in its rejuvenation efforts.However, they need more neighborhood groups and non-profits working together to encourage homeownership and solidify its neighborhoods. The city cannot survive on just its downtown if out-of-towners are afraid to visit.....

[Frankie811]

I lived in Hartford in 1998-1999. The city is a very dangerous place after dark.I witnessed crime in plain view of everyone right on Asylum Street downtown. There is not 1 safe neighborhood within city limits. The people have such a negative perception of anything positive for the city. I wish the "Heartbeat" all good fortune in its rejuvenation efforts.However, they need more neighborhood groups and non-profits working together to encourage homeownership and solidify its neighborhoods. The city cannot survive on just its downtown if out-of-towners are afraid to visit.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't want to live there. In a 2-3 yr period 20 police officers were arrested for robbery, rape, consorting with prostitutes...........etc If you can't trust people on the streets or the police who can you trust. Does Hartford still have a 9pm curfew downtown to keep young people out? They started that many years ago so I don't really know. Heres's an article on Hartford Police brutality.

http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/gbase/News...t?oid=oid:38488

http://www.freespeech.com/archives/001361.html

[HartfordTycoon]

I wouldn't want to live there. In a 2-3 yr period 20 police officers were arrested for robbery, rape, consorting with prostitutes...........etc

[Frankie811]

Yes, there is still a 9pm curfew for teens, but it's citywide, not just downtown.

http://www.hartfordinfo.org/issues/documen...rant_070605.asp

http://www.mediacampaign.org/publications/message99/5_5.html

http://www.hartfordpolice.org/frequent.htm#Question%20#%205

[HartfordTycoon]

The only way PVD would ever over take BDL for New England's second biggest airport is if they build a longer runway, and that seems a ways away with all the nimbys in the area. BDL currently has more destinations, more passengers, and as of a year ago a nicer terminal. BDL has room to grow, PVD is land locked. BDL has more business travel and this year is out pacing PVD in growth. June saw PVD passenger numbers increase by 4.5% while BDL rose by 12%. If anyone is oging to get international service in New England on a daily basis it would be BDL, PVD is too close to BOS to ever get daily transatlantic service.

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I second this opinion. Hartford is the Number 2 city in New England. Always has been, always will be. We will get international flights. Providence will not. End of story.

[virgo20]

I second this opinion. Hartford is the Number 2 city in New England. Always has been, always will be. We will get international flights. Providence will not. End of story.

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Hartford is a distressed city with a ton of potential. There are MANY events that draw people to the city from all walks of life, but the majority of those people spend their $$ in outlying towns. They don't patronize Hartford restaurants. They don't watch a movie or play in the city. They don't shop in the city. They drive to Manchester or Rocky Hill and call it a day!! I never said Providence was a Kansas picnic, but I feel it is a lot more culturally advanced than Hartford. I think Hartford has the best skyline in N.E. and a lot more money in its suburbs than Prov. They need to address their neighborhoods and create energy within them. The residents that still live there are negative of their own city's future. It's almost exactly the same culture that behooves Worcester. They are undergoing massive changes downtown and No one can say anything positive. As far as the crime situation being overblown, Hartford is practically the same exact size as Prov. in terms of sq. miles. If a murder happens in a village in Kansas, it is media coverage. If a murder happens in N.Y.C., it barely makes the news. When the crime rate is nearly double that of Prov. and has over 50k less in population, it is an issue! I have felt more comfortable in the Bronx thsn in Hartford and this is coming from someone who grew up in South Prov. in the 80's!!!!With that said, I would love for Hartford to move forward and give me a reason to make the journey from R.I.

[KRC]

I second this opinion. Hartford is the Number 2 city in New England. Always has been, always will be. We will get international flights. Providence will not. End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I certainly hope Air Canada doesn't fly to Toronto from Providence.

I know it's only Canada, but it counts!

[HartfordTycoon]

I certainly hope Air Canada doesn't fly to Toronto from Providence.

[HartfordTycoon]

Hartford is a distressed city with a ton of potential. There are MANY events that draw people to the city from all walks of life, but the majority of those people spend their $$ in outlying towns. They don't patronize Hartford restaurants. They don't watch a movie or play in the city. They don't shop in the city. They drive to Manchester or Rocky Hill and call it a day!! I never said Providence was a Kansas picnic, but I feel it is a lot more culturally advanced than Hartford. I think Hartford has the best skyline in N.E. and a lot more money in its suburbs than Prov. They need to address their neighborhoods and create energy within them. The residents that still live there are negative of their own city's future. It's almost exactly the same culture that behooves Worcester. They are undergoing massive changes downtown and No one can say anything positive. As far as the crime situation being overblown, Hartford is practically the same exact size as Prov. in terms of sq. miles. If a murder happens in a village in Kansas, it is media coverage. If a murder happens in N.Y.C., it barely makes the news. When the crime rate is nearly double that of Prov. and has over 50k less in population, it is an issue! I have felt more comfortable in the Bronx thsn in Hartford and this is coming from someone who grew up in South Prov. in the 80's!!!!With that said, I would love for Hartford to move forward and give me a reason to make the journey from R.I.

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To mention Worcestor and Hartford in the same breath is an absolute insult to Hartford. Most of America does not even know that this city exists. I just had to respond to this one. What corporations are they home too? How many museums do they have? What sports teams have they/ do they had/have? What is there metro pop? How large is their TV Market? Where is their airport? How many skyscrapers do they have? Do you get my point here. There is no comparison at all, whatsoever between these two cities.

[AriPVD]

I'm sorry but the number of development projects, growth of population, national press exposure and crime rates do not lie. I hate this stupid argument, but come on. Let's at LEAST be honest.

[billypc99]

I lived in Providence for 25 years and Manchester/Hartford for 5 full years and here is my take. At present, Hartford reminds me of the Providence circa 1988-1991. Pretty much dead and hanging by a thread. Providence had some projects in the works (citizens, convention center, westin, rivers and some residential projects) around this time....quite similar with what is going on in hartford right now. People in Providence and RI had a negative attitude about the city and would only live there if they had to...downcity of course...eastside/elmhurst and other areas have always been fine to live. People in hartford have the same negative attitude about their city and people only live there if they have to.

The bottom line is that Hartford is at the very least 12-15 years away from Providence. To think otherwise is just silly. Look at how much money hartford has spent trying to lure private investors into Adrians landing...that is just an embarassment to the city...having them pull out like that.

Circa 1988-1991 most people in Providence didnt expect any overnight change despite the projects and of course there were naysayers. In connecticut, I got/get the feeling that some think a few projects will change things over night....and foolishly some think that by building a convention center and having a couple of new buildings will do the trick. This is typical of CT...just throw money at the problem...$$$$$. Unfortunately this doesn't work as it just helps alleviate the symptoms. The difference between the resurgence of providence vs. and attempted one in Hartford is that millions of man-hours were/are spent thinking, planning and working in the trenches in Providence. Hartford doesnt have any sort of planning....they just copy other cities and think spending money fixes problems. Providence had/has creative thinking at the heart of our development. Hartford is the farthest thing from original in terms of urban planning.

As far as the crime rate in Hartford goes....you can blame it on stats, population or whatever you want, but its a god damned mess and will be for some time to come. Of course they try to copy providence, stamford and other cities in dealing with their crime issues and that doesnt work. An even bigger problem is the fact that the ghetto of hartford is a mere two minute walk from downtown....right into trumbell. Providence doesnt have this issue.

The nightlife in Hartford is a pathetic along with their arts and culinary scence. Providence is light years ahead...thats just a fact.

Providence has about 50k more permenant resients and we are on pace to add another 12-15k in the next 3 years. Hartford is losing residents. We also get a huge boost from the colleges...Hartford adds only a small percent.

Hartford has better jobs...cant argue that. That will change with the influx of people living in providence, especially with the education base of the new high end residential towers.

To think that in 10 years Hartford will be better off than Providence is naive. Providence's renaissance didnt happen over night and neither will Hartfords. Hartford is still way behind New Haven for the states best city to live in.

[Baines]

As a lifelong resident I admit that crime must be dealt with. I do believe that it is overblown by local and national media though. Most major U.S. cities are far more dangerous Such as New Orleans, Miami and Atlanta where I lived from 1999 to 2004. All of these cities bustle and thrive despite the crime which is far greater. Our numbers are skewed because we are so small. The crime happens mostly in isolated areas of the North and South Ends and is almost alway personal, not random. Plenty of out of towners come here, and I would say with UCONN Basketball already being National for both Men's and Women's, and UCONN Football coming off a bowl winning season Hartford will draw many more visitors than Providence when they accompany their teams. Our television market is larger and Springfield and New Haven should be included in our Metro numbers, IMO. This would put our metro near the 3 million mark, all with residents who ALREADY live no more than a HALF HOUR from Downtown Hartford. We also host many other national events such as USA Soccor, there is a game coming up against Trinidad next week I beleive, The Buick Championship on the PGA tour, and the nearby Pilot Pen Tennis Tournament in New Haven, which just added a men's bracket. I concede that providence is prettier and safer than Hartford for the time being, but good luck keeping up with all of that. We also have the 2 largest tourist attractions in the North East Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun, though they are 45 mins away and close to Prov. too, the 2 billion in revenue goes to CT and not RI. They just sold out of 500k townhomes in the west end in the Goodwin Estate, and downtown condos and apartments are going at a rapid pace. So once again, good luck competing when all is said and done and the cement dries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Holy God !!!!

Your statements are grossly inaccurate - New Haven is not part of the Hartford "metro" and Foxwoods is a suburb of the Providence metro in reality.

Hartford a major city?!!! Ever hear Baltimore and Hartford in the same sentance?Providence IS spoken of in the same group with Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Boston, etc...rated the number 3 city in the nation to live by CNN Money in 2004.

"Hartford is, always has been, and will always be more of a national city than Providence"...where in God's name did you get that from!? The X Games, the media market is bigger AND nationally recognized, extensive TV and movie activity, theater arts, culinary arts, education, history, national recognition (food, music, urban development), politics? PLEASE...

While Hartford has some national insurance firms Providence has several national non-insurance firms.

I agree with one thing - Providence is bigger, far more attractive, alive, safe, fun, and beautiful. Hartford is set for status quo for life as a brushoff to NYC

I lived in Hartford and New Haven...UGGGG

[KRC]

Judging by Air Canada's web site they fly from both cities. I would be more specific and say trans-atlantic or at least to South America would qualify as truly international.

I also would like to address the people who say that everyone in Hartford is negative about the city. This is simply not true, I am from here and I know many people on both sides of the debate. I would say that most informed people are positive at this point. And anyone who says people from the suburbs do not spend money in the city should really come here on a Fri or Sat night There will be many city eateries and bars filled to capacity. And we cannot talk about our teeny tiny little New England cities without factoring in the economic conditions of the suburbs in which Hartford is still, always has been, and always will be ahead of providence. The Hartford Stage, The Bushnell, and Real Art Ways are some of the most respected theators in the region. The Wadworth Museum of Art is one of the finest musuems in the country and probably the world, not to mention the oldest public art museum in America. I'm sure the Dodge Music Center (Formerly the Meadows) has more first rate concerts than can be found anywhere in RI. So I say this, if you have nothing positive to say about Hartford, you don't know anything about Hartford. I am not bashing Providence, but it is a College Town and that is where the energy comes from, it also benefits from being the only city in the state of RI of any size or significance, where in CT we have New Haven and Stamford which are both extremely healthy. Bridgeport is behind but will most likely turn around at some point. Culturally CT is also much more diverse than RI. You may not think that's a good thing, but I do. Culture is not only one race. I strongly believe that the arts and entertainment scene has much broader appeal than that of Providence. There are weekends where if you chose to you could see a Uconn game, go to a rock or pop concert, a rap or R and B concert, a reggea concert, or a latin music. Not to mention Jazz or classical. The Hartford Sympony Orchestra is very prestigious and our anuall Jazz Fest in Bushnell park draws huge crowds. I'm sorry but I do not see a lack of culture or variety here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

National opinoin would disagree with your viewpoint about Providence.

[Baines]

I second this opinion. Hartford is the Number 2 city in New England. Always has been, always will be. We will get international flights. Providence will not. End of story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You poor soul...measuring an international flight with the class of a city?! I can tell you Providence is considered nationally as NE's number 2 (in some cases number 1) city.

I live in Tampa and I tell you now that Providence is considered a major national city...Hartford is a medium city (Worcester, Springfield), mentioned as an alternative to NYC...not as a destination or a model for anything or anybody.

Please understand, I lived there and New Haven...it is a poor old NE city with nothing to offer. It is on no radar.

Providence serves as a model for other cities. The latest is Tampa is using Providence as a model to create a "riverwalk" and Jacksonville for resturants.

Sorry, but you are out of your class.