Nashville, as MLB Expansion Market

[markhollin 93461]

Highlights from an article titled, "A glimpse into Nashville's odds of a Major League (baseball) franchise:"

• It's not clear from early conversations with sports and business community insiders who, if anyone, is seriously pursuing the opportunity. In fact, many expressed surprise when Nashville's name was floated by the commissioner as a potential expansion market.
   
• Following Manfred's comments, both Mayor David Briley and Monica Fawknotson, executive director of the Metro Sports Authority, issued statements saying the launch of the MLS franchise is the city's priority right now, although they described the commissioner's comments as "flattering" and "a huge compliment," respectively.
   
• It's also unclear when MLB's proposed expansion would actually move forward. Prior coverage of the possibility has stressed that the league is unlikely to add more teams before two of its existing franchises, Oakland and Tampa, finalize plans for new stadiums.
   
• Ron Samuels, a longtime Nashville banking leader who was closely involved with efforts to land the Tennessee Titans in the 1990s and to keep the Predators a decade ago, said research has long shown Nashville is a market that would be a fit for a Major League Baseball team. Although he's not sure what the data shows now, Samuels continued, growth in the city's business community and the arrival of new Fortune 500 companies would seem to bolster that case, increasing the pool of potential sponsorship dollars that could prove vital to a team's success. “We’ve got … a mix now that certainly fits with the ability to support a team," Samuels said, referring not only to the city's business community but also its growing pool of transplants from cities with Major League Baseball teams.
   
• Toby Compton, former executive director of the Metro Sports Authority, said he was happy to see Nashville mentioned by the commissioner, but he's not sure a team is truly in Nashville's future.  Compton, who now serves as president of the Associated Builders and Contractors of Greater Tennessee, led the Sports Authority during the construction of First Tennessee Park, the city's 3-year-old Minor League Baseball stadium that, a team official told The Tennessean, cannot be expanded for MLB. "I’m excited to be on the list. Major League [Baseball] would be great," said Compton, who's been closely involved with the push for an MLS team. "I just don’t quite see this panning out."
  

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/07/18/take-us-out-to-the-ballgame-a-glimpse-into.html

[East Side Urbanite 523]

As Ron noted,  there is no city with under 2.5 million in MSA population that has four of the big five, NFL,NHL, NBA, MLB, and MLS . We don't think Nashville will be the first. And on that note, I don't think we will ever see any U.S. city with an MSA pop under 2.5 million have four of the big five. The numbers simply don't work.

As to Titanhog's question: I do feel we would have a better chance at MLB were the MLS thing to fizzle. BUT, soccer is an international sport that we can parlay into luring international businesses and tourists. Let's get MLS now. Maybe when we have 3 million we can land baseball.

[e-dub 2963]

I like baseball more than soccer as a sport, but the thought of an MLS franchise seems "sexier" to me.

[jmtunafish 4296]

8 minutes ago, e-dub said:

I like baseball more than soccer as a sport, but the thought of an MLS franchise seems "sexier" to me.

I agree.  Even though I love baseball and would rather watch paint dry than sit through a soccer game, soccer is clearly a growing sport that seems to be much more popular with younger people.  Baseball fans are aging, and fewer kids play Little League these days.  https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/Baseball-A-Changing-Landscape

[volsfanwill 1563]

when the soccer bid was first discussed a couple years ago, I said that I would rather have MLB.  And that I feared that if we got an MLS team that we would never get an MLB team.

Id like a baseball team, but I dont think we could support 4 teams, even with the brief MLS schedule. 

[bmkTN 312]

I would love it but I don't see it happening either.  I'm surprised MLB is even talking about expansion right now.  They can barely fill up the stadiums in most mid-market cities as it is.  I know it would never happen, but I actually think MLB ought to cut 2-4 teams out to improve the quality of the product on the field.

[titanhog 15148]

I watched a little of the Atlanta vs. Seattle soccer match on tv the other day...and it was impressive.  That crowd in Atlanta was crazy...packed in and waving HUGE flags in the stands.  It was possibly crazier than our Preds crowds.  What's up with Atlanta supporting soccer this way...when they've been known to not always fully support their other pro sports (they even lost their hockey team)?

[samsonh 1115]

Here’s a vote for baseball being terribly boring. Please MLS, please no baseball!

Edited July 19, 2018 by samsonh

[e-dub 2963]

5 minutes ago, titanhog said:

I watched a little of the Atlanta vs. Seattle soccer match on tv the other day...and it was impressive.  That crowd in Atlanta was crazy...packed in and waving HUGE flags in the stands.  It was possibly crazier than our Preds crowds.  What's up with Atlanta supporting soccer this way...when they've been known to not always fully support their other pro sports (they even lost their hockey team)?

It's just a different experience, and a chance to "shape" a new part of life in the city (a newer-to-this-part-of-the-country sport). MLS is like a wide open thing at this point and I find that incredibly alluring.

[satalac 1512]

15 hours ago, titanhog said:

Ok...let me ask this:  If somehow the MLS expansion falls through here (because of the Fairgrounds fiasco)...would that suddenly change our minds on the viability of MLB here?

I don't know if it would. With the money already spent on First Tennessee Park, and the fact that it cannot be expanded, I'd say the taxpayers would have a tough time ponying up for an even more expensive park. Plus, what would happen to First Tennessee Park? I really don't see Nashville getting an MLB team in the next 10 years, even if the MLS deal fails (fingers crossed it won't). Add to that the future of Nissan Stadium and Bridgestone, and it really looks unlikely. The fact that the commissioner listed Nashville without us bidding  speaks VOLUMES of how well this city is perceived on a national scale though. Turning down possible professional teams isn't necessarily a bad problem to have.

[nashvylle 6709]

10 hours ago, e-dub said:

It's just a different experience, and a chance to "shape" a new part of life in the city (a newer-to-this-part-of-the-country sport). MLS is like a wide open thing at this point and I find that incredibly alluring.

Email your council members, then email them again. Tell your friends and family to email as well. Council needs to see emails daily and weekly of support! 

[e-dub 2963]

WOrry not, @nashvylle. I sounded the alarm to everyone I know a few weeks ago when the first signs of silliness started surfacing.

[PruneTracy 2822]

14 hours ago, bmkTN said:

I'm surprised MLB is even talking about expansion right now.  They can barely fill up the stadiums in most mid-market cities as it is.

They don't have to fill them up, they play more games in a season. Total season attendance in the show is something like five times that of the NFL.

I wouldn't use the stadium capacity as a metric of team popularity (although there is a correlation). Having extra seats on hand for marquee games and/or the playoffs doesn't add that much to the construction and operation costs, and Major League Baseball's blackout policy isn't based on sellouts like the NFL, so there's less incentive to right-size the stadium. It's really just an optics issue and modern parks are designed to avoid the cavernous feel for weekday games.

I do think baseball would be better off with a lower-level league that doesn't function as a farm team. It seems many AAA markets would be more successful if they didn't have a revolving door of players. Maybe that's a void that gets filled by the independent leagues over time, I don't know.

[markhollin 93461]

Here are some examples of how an MLB stadium footprint could fit on various sites I have mentioned earlier. I chose Pittsburgh's PNC Park because it's general layout is along the lines of what we would need, and it's capacity (38,000) is the current standard among ballparks being built in recent years. This is not scientifically exact, but is about as close to scale as I could get for these overlays. Obviously, certain elements of the PNC design could be altered to fit into certain spaces, so this is more for general conception, and not fine-tuned detail.   In all cases, the orientation is with North being at the top of each frame.

For scale, you can see that the current First Tennessee Ballpark site is just too small to contain the necessary acreage for a major league stadium:

This is my favorite site, directly across the river from downtown on the Nissan Stadium site.  Naturally, Nissan would need to be torn down (my vote is for a new retractable roof football stadium just to the south on the PSC Metals site). 

This baseball stadium would hug the river so that a long home run to right field could actually have splashdown in the Cumberland.  The views of the Nashville skyline would be rivaled only by those in Pittsburgh from PNC Park across the Allegheny River into the Golden Triangle.  There is already a lot of parking in the area, and some of the space around the new stadium could be developed into garages with ground level retail/restaurants to further maximize the acreage.

 

A second good option on the east side of the river would be the Gerdau Ameristeel/TA site, which is just north of  Main St./James Robertson Parkway   Bridge (north of Nissan Stadium).  Once again, there would be beautiful views of downtown, and a fair amount of parking already in place around Nissan Stadium.

The area west of I-40/65 between Church and Broadway that includes Country Delite Dairy, some old Jim Reed Chevy properties, Downtown Hyundai, etc.  This configuration would need to exchange the PNC Park low bleachers in right field for the ones in left for best view of downtown skyline to the east. The scoreboard would then be put above the large bleachers in right field. 

 

This would be the same configuration, just sitting a little further to the north in that acreage, with main entry points being along Church St. In either case, there would need to be a large amount of parking garages created that would all need street level activation in the form of restaurants, retail, bars, etc.  

 

This is another configuration on the east side of the river, even further north,  at the Alley-Cassetty Brick/Little Harpeth Brewing/Grand Avenue site (north of the Ameristeel site). The CSX tracks run east-west just to the south. 

 

This is the U.S. Smokeless Tobacco/Goodwill Industries site just north of Capitol View (would also require a new I-40/65 exit/entrance ramp at either Herman or Harrison Street). Once again, several huge parking garages would need to be built in the area, with street level activation.

 

This is the north end of the NES site at Charlotte and the east side of  I-40-65.  This might be a bit snug with 11th Ave. North.  The low lying bleachers would be in left field, with the large bleachers in right with the scoreboard above, thus allowing great views into downtown to the east. It would also be neat to incorporate the art deco NES Building beyond the right field line into the ballpark complex/administrative offices/team store, etc.

 

Same NES site, but just hugging Church St. to the south.  Several large garages would need to be built in the area with street-level activation.

 

The area west of I-40/65 between Charlotte and Church (provided none of the new development like the Comfort Inn and McMillan & Church gets underway there in the next few years). The low lying bleachers would be in left field, with the large bleachers in right with the scoreboard above, thus allowing great views into downtown to the east. Once again, several large garages will be needed with street activation.

 

Same site but a little further to the south:

 

If Beaman and Castle Rock Equity would ever be willing to sell, this could be a great site.  Once again, the low lying bleachers would be in left field, with the large bleachers in right with the scoreboard above, thus allowing great views into downtown to the east. And, as always, several large garages will be needed with street activation.

 

The same site, except with the stadium resituated.  Now the low lying bleachers would remain in right field, with the higher bleachers and scoreboard in left. This would require knocking out all of the restaurants along Demonbruen---although some of them might be reconstituted into the footprint of the stadium when it opened.

 

A third possibility of airing the stadium on the site this way:

[bnacincy 534]

Best place in Nashville for a MLB stadium is the East Bank between the railroad tracks and Jefferson Street. Big enough area for a Major League park with plenty of space for parking without the need for more hideous parking garages. Nissan Stadium and the Ballpark could share parking and that would give downtown Nashville more commuter parking, which would ease traffic on Downtown's narrow streets.

[FrankNash 500]

NES in the North Gulch would have a built-in neighborhood vibe from day one, not just game day. 

[nashvylle 6709]

Who owns the adjacent parcels around NES? 

[markhollin 93461]

9 hours ago, nashvylle said:

Who owns the adjacent parcels around NES? 

As far as I am aware, NES owns that entire massive tract between Charlotte and Church on north/south, and between George L. Davis Blvd. and 11th Ave. North on west/east.  Everything north of Charlotte is owned by Capitol View.  About 1/4 of the tract south of Church is owned by Gibson and is for sale.   Highwoods owns about 1/2 (the recently-purchased Tennessean properties, part of which will be developed into Asurion), and the other 1/4 is made up of The Gossett and Endeavor/1200 Broadway, and a few smaller individually owned plots.

As far as parking goes, there could probably be some garages with mixed-use possibilities built on the west side of the freeway and a pedestrian bridge built across.  Also, the massive State employee lots to the NE along Charlotte on the other side of the CSX tracks could be developed into larger garages with ground level activation.

[nashvylle 6709]

Where could NES be relocated? 

[markhollin 93461]

4 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Where could NES be relocated? 

Apparently they are looking at other sites that are undisclosed at this time.  Much of their site is sitting empty, or storing lots of old spools and equipment that is no longer in use.  They could probably exist much more efficiently on about 1/4 of the land they currently utilize in that locale.  My guess is they would still like to be somewhat centrally located, with close access to the freeway system.  

[markhollin 93461]

If you would be interested in participating in a poll at NBJ on whether you would . support MLB in Nashville or not, you can do so here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/pulse/poll/do-you-want-nashville-to-land-a-major-league-baseball-team/21307492?ana=e_me_pulse&s=newsletter&ed=2018-07-23&u=blTR7Dj233GiBQ74JyYK0Q09b4ecfd&t=1532349876&j=82847751

Results so far from 354 responses:
 

[Bos2Nash 2792]

MLB has rules about orientation of the ballparks.  Rule 1.04 "It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitchers plate to second base shall run East-Northeast." Below is an image to showing the orientation of all the stadiums in MLB. This is the orientation according to the stated rule (red arrows indicate a domed stadium)

Unfortunately this would screw with the city skyline views of placing the stadium along the river and wanting home run splashdown :/

Here is the article where the above graphic came from: https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/lost-in-the-sun-the-physics-of-ballpark-orientation/

Edited July 23, 2018 by Bos2Nash

[markhollin 93461]

^ ^ ^ I never realized the ruling was that specific.  I knew they weren't allowed to build where the sunset would be in the batter's eyes.  I figured an orientation of a Nashville ballpark on the east side of the river with the batter facing towards the south/southwest would be sufficient enough where evening sun issues would not be a problem (would be setting down the right field line, or even further to the NW in mid summer months).    Oh well.

 

[e-dub 2963]

Then you'd have to deal with the ball vs shadows, which is VERY much a thing. Baseball has a lot of intricacies, lol.

[bnacincy 534]

All the ballparks oriented to the SE are fairly new parks so it must not be a hard and fast rule.

By the way, NES and the Tennessean could easily relocate to MetroCenter.