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Ideal Orlando Public Transportation


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19 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

@IAmFloridaBorn I'll try to get around to posting a formal reply with maps soon.  I stupidly made my last map with Paint 3D, so it is now uneditable.  Also, if you had any suggestions for the larger metro proposal above, then feel free to post them.  I'd love to edit both of them when I get around to it.  However, my initial thoughts are:

  • Option 2 and 3 wander too much to be as effective as a downtown circulator could be.  The time it takes to go from the north side to the south side would belong in comparison to the current Lymmo route.
  • My main problem with the two new lines is that the service is circulator instead of linear.  Circulator routes work in the downtown proper, but should not wander outside.  Look at the Miami Metromover.  All of the routes circulate through the denser portions of downtown, but the outer loops also serve the areas north and south of downtown with linear portions.  It is the most successful of the three Downtown People Mover systems in the United States, which are all funded by the USDOT by the way.

d472e3e47bec3549ed00efe4577123d7.png

  • The studies that resulted in Grapefruit and Lime line also included proposals for a North and South extension of the current Orange line.  They would have gone as far north as Florida Hospital and College Park and as far south as the southern edge of SoDo.  I believe the city has plans for them to be built in the future, and I think they made good choices for the routes.  Notice they were not circulators except at the very ends.

1600837632_LymmoSouth.thumb.PNG.0970d996ad03ef69f7a0a2254a8ad3bd.PNG1827724067_LymmoNorth.thumb.PNG.ea7310be42008f859ff2bc86564b3565.PNG

Understood.

I dont like the Miami/Orlando comparison.
Miami is much more dense and has a functional rail system in the air. Which is what the Original Lymmo route should have been.

Anywho

I'd argue SunRail shouldn't have two stops in downtown Orlando especially when Lymmo repeats the N/S movement more than once like SunRail and Several Lynx Buses.
In Saying that I Dont see how Orlando calling Citrus Bowl area downtown and ORMC, as well as Florida Hospital area 'downtown', wold be any different if it were all connected by a more acute transit system where time vs option would be an issue. Especially for such a rapid growing area.

In saying that I do hope a North to South Expansion/Connection between the two Hospitals and CBD happens with Lymmo.
I Remember those before Grapefruit happened. I Figured they scrapped them.

Too bad we don't have a people mover like a lot of city centers do.

I had a map for the bigger transit but I've been in the hospital, and lost it. Will make it again. I Loved your ideas!

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4 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Understood.

I dont like the Miami/Orlando comparison.
Miami is much more dense and has a functional rail system in the air. Which is what the Original Lymmo route should have been.

Anywho

I'd argue SunRail shouldn't have two stops in downtown Orlando especially when Lymmo repeats the N/S movement more than once like SunRail and Several Lynx Buses.
In Saying that I Dont see how Orlando calling Citrus Bowl area downtown and ORMC, as well as Florida Hospital area 'downtown', wold be any different if it were all connected by a more acute transit system where time vs option would be an issue. Especially for such a rapid growing area.

In saying that I do hope a North to South Expansion/Connection between the two Hospitals and CBD happens with Lymmo.
I Remember those before Grapefruit happened. I Figured they scrapped them.

Too bad we don't have a people mover like a lot of city centers do.

I had a map for the bigger transit but I've been in the hospital, and lost it. Will make it again. I Loved your ideas!

The Miami comparison comes from my extensive personal experience with it.  I could also compare it to DC, Atlanta, and the other places I've visited, but I think Miami's past mirrors Orlando more than the others.  The similarities I'm referring to are specifically related to similar car-centric growth and Trirail.

Cool, I see what you mean with the two Sunrail stops in downtown.  I'd argue against a similar east-west system having two stops, but the north-south orientation of both Sunrail and downtown does make the two stops make a bit of sense.  I know this is the Miami comparison against, but... Metrorail, which serves a similar purpose to Sunrail during some times of the day, does have two stops in downtown Miami for similar reasons.  Although I would say its unnecessary in the long term, convenience is the only reason why people are using Sunrail right now.  It needs all the numbers it can get.

On the N/S extensions,  I believe they should set the stage for future light rail that would go N/S along the same path over farther distances, like in my regional proposal a few posts above.  Lymmo serves as a temporary measure that secures the necessary ROW for the future light rail.  Long Term, light rail runs through the city through two east-west and north-south corridors.  Streetcars circulate between Creative Village,  Parramore, the CBD, South Eola, Thornton Park, Eola Heights, and North Quarter.  They would be two lines that follow the same path over most of their journey except in opposite directions.  SoDo and Ivanhoe could get spur routes of the streetcars if the demand exists.

I'm loving this thread by the way!  While the present is nice, it's also exciting to envision what can be.

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To increase connectivity, I think having our major roadways, like Semoran, OBT, Kirkman, Mills, Colonial, etc., with a BRT line down the middle with transfer stations to work with all of the rail lines suggested will feed everything and connect a broader system. Other roads where there is already high ridership/high frequency could probably sustain a BRT route as well, like Oak Ridge Road, Silver Star, etc. Having visited Mexico City on several occasions and how well many modes of transit connect smoothly in areas, was a nice experience.  This would help the local trips on the roadways. This would have to be specific busses with the doors on the left side, and paying the fare entering an enclosed air conditioned station with the roof reaching over the bus to shelter from rain. We already have wide ROWs, I think it can work hehe

On this thoroughfare even with the median being relatively narrow, there are plenty of shade trees:

https://www.google.com/maps/@19.4071101,-99.1680312,3a,90y,251.13h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scJh86MRhE5k2G4_1b2sEHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

TransMilenio in Bogota has nicer, wider stations set in much wider streets which can be mimicked here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@19.4071101,-99.1680312,3a,90y,251.13h,79.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scJh86MRhE5k2G4_1b2sEHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

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11 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

@IAmFloridaBorn I'll try to get around to posting a formal reply with maps soon.  I stupidly made my last map with Paint 3D, so it is now uneditable.  Also, if you had any suggestions for the larger metro proposal above, then feel free to post them.  I'd love to edit both of them when I get around to it.  However, my initial thoughts are:

  • Option 2 and 3 wander too much to be as effective as a downtown circulator could be.  The time it takes to go from the north side to the south side would belong in comparison to the current Lymmo route.
  • My main problem with the two new lines is that the service is circulator instead of linear.  Circulator routes work in the downtown proper, but should not wander outside.  Look at the Miami Metromover.  All of the routes circulate through the denser portions of downtown, but the outer loops also serve the areas north and south of downtown with linear portions.  It is the most successful of the three Downtown People Mover systems in the United States, which are all funded by the USDOT by the way.

d472e3e47bec3549ed00efe4577123d7.png

  • The studies that resulted in Grapefruit and Lime line also included proposals for a North and South extension of the current Orange line.  They would have gone as far north as Florida Hospital and College Park and as far south as the southern edge of SoDo.  I believe the city has plans for them to be built in the future, and I think they made good choices for the routes.  Notice they were not circulators except at the very ends.

1600837632_LymmoSouth.thumb.PNG.0970d996ad03ef69f7a0a2254a8ad3bd.PNG1827724067_LymmoNorth.thumb.PNG.ea7310be42008f859ff2bc86564b3565.PNG

So Metromover is 4.4 miles

So I tried to get a better proposal based off of old Lynx map and your statement about wondering too much. Here is what I came up with.

This is for a  metro mover style circulator.

image.png

 

This is a Circulator with a Lymmo circulators
image.thumb.png.690b810568be61912649a77e367a0351.png
Red - Metromover or Street Car
Blue - Lymmo South to Orange and Michigan (Orlando Health)
Green - Downtown Orlando Neighborhood Lymmo
Purple - North Quarter to Florida Hospital Lymmo

 

The shapes are stops.

I think something like this could work. It's kind of what Lymmo is now except touches a few more populated and employment areas. Also entertainment

Edited by IAmFloridaBorn
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On 9/8/2018 at 9:15 AM, IAmFloridaBorn said:

So Metromover is 4.4 miles

So I tried to get a better proposal based off of old Lynx map and your statement about wondering too much. Here is what I came up with.

This is for a  metro mover style circulator.

image.png

 

This is a Circulator with a Lymmo circulators
image.thumb.png.690b810568be61912649a77e367a0351.png
Red - Metromover or Street Car
Blue - Lymmo South to Orange and Michigan (Orlando Health)
Green - Downtown Orlando Neighborhood Lymmo
Purple - North Quarter to Florida Hospital Lymmo

 

The shapes are stops.

I think something like this could work. It's kind of what Lymmo is now except touches a few more populated and employment areas. Also entertainment

Looks good! I don't know if there is a need for both a streetcar and Lymmo downtown, but the routes look good.  A more likely scenario would have the streetcar using the BRT lanes on Magnolia instead of Robinson, but this is the "Ideal" transit thread.

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23 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

I love the redline for a streetcar application. #reviveOSCAR

I am all for streetcar. I only think the overhead lines won't work in Orlando's weather. And their ugly.

17 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

Looks good! I don't know if there is a need for both a streetcar and Lymmo downtown, but the routes look good.  A more likely scenario would have the streetcar using the BRT lanes on Magnolia instead of Robinson, but this is the "Ideal" transit thread.

Lymmo would only be there to support where the streetcar 'Couldn't' or 'Wouldn't' go because the streets are brick.

The thing with Magnolia vs Rosiland is due to trying to make downtown more 'Pedestrian Friendly'. Converting Rolsinad to a two way or placing a street car and slowing the speed down helps that. Also it's close to the Eola/Thorton neighborhood than Magnolia. Magnolia has little residential/retail, less than Rosliand anyway. (Not by much).

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Magnolia used to be the one-way pair northbound for FL 527 but that was changed for OSCAR. They had to reroute the connection from Orange both on the south end and the north end to do it (which also cut off direct access from Delaney to downtown.)

When they did that, Rosalind went from a two-way street to one-way.

The official excuse used for the demise of OSCAR had to do with some sort of incline near the courthouse. More than a few people believed it had more to do with Lynx's insistence on standardized equipment (a similar issue arose on I-Drive arose and led to Lynx losing that contract to Mears, resulting in the current rather cheesy trollies.)

Edited by spenser1058
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  • 2 years later...

Time for another look at this stuff. @smileguy I partially used .KMZ data from your previous map fyi. This pretty much compiles a lot of the current proposals and/or studies into a single map. This takes into account the US 192, SR 436, and SR 50 studies from Lynx for routing. Green is inspired by one of the alternatives in the OIA Connector study. Blue is inspired by the old light rail proposals, the SR 50 study, and the I-Drive circulator proposals. Sunrail East/West comes from a proposal from Brightline that will be presented to the CFRC in February. Brightline comes from Brightline. OBX is the Orange Blossom Express proposal from about a decade ago.

Here is a link to the Google Map overlay: Ideal Orlando Transit 2021 - Google My Maps

Light Orange - CR Sunrail

Dark Orange - CR Orange Blossom Express

Yellow - Brightline (Sunrail East/West is next to this in Orange from Disney to Innovation Way)

Blue - LRT UCF / Downtown / I-Drive

Green - LRT I-Drive / OIA / Lake Nona

Pink - BRT Apopka / Altamonte / OIA

Purple - BRT West Colonial

Red - BRT US 129

 

LRT = Light Rail Transit

BRT = Bus Rapid Transit

CR = Commuter Rail

Edited by WAJAS
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On 1/10/2021 at 5:57 PM, WAJAS said:

Time for another look at this stuff. @smileguy I partially used .KMZ data from your previous map fyi. This pretty much compiles a lot of the current proposals and/or studies into a single map. This takes into account the US 192, SR 436, and SR 50 studies from Lynx for routing. Green is inspired by one of the alternatives in the OIA Connector study. Blue is inspired by the old light rail proposals, the SR 50 study, and the I-Drive circulator proposals. Sunrail East/West comes from a proposal from Brightline that will be presented to the CFRC in February. Brightline comes from Brightline. OBX is the Orange Blossom Express proposal from about a decade ago.

Here is a link to the Google Map overlay: Ideal Orlando Transit 2021 - Google My Maps

Light Orange - CR Sunrail

Dark Orange - CR Orange Blossom Express

Yellow - Brightline (Sunrail East/West is next to this in Orange from Disney to Innovation Way)

Blue - LRT UCF / Downtown / I-Drive

Green - LRT I-Drive / OIA / Lake Nona

Pink - BRT Apopka / Altamonte / OIA

Purple - BRT West Colonial

Red - BRT US 129

 

LRT = Light Rail Transit

BRT = Bus Rapid Transit

CR = Commuter Rail

Nice work. Is there still a proposal that includes light rail to UCF?

 

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5 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Nice work. Is there still a proposal that includes light rail to UCF?

 

EDIT: I read this wrong at first.

There's a study by Lynx for premium transit on 50, but the connection to I-Drive is from the old light rail proposal from about two decades ago. A more likely scenario is the I-Drive and 50 portions are built independently, but may eventually link up in the future.

Honestly, any LRT options are going to be pushed off until the next large-scale fed infrastructure bill, so its the waiting game for now.

Edited by WAJAS
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