LOCAL and Florida Politics

[spenser1058]

"smarmy reprobate" - dcluley wins our "Pithy Phrase of the Week" Award hands down!

[aent]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I'm calling Rick Scott a scumbag not because he's a republican and I'm a democrat (I'm not a democrat) or he's right and I'm left (I'm slightly left of center but right on many individual issues), but instead because he has a vast history of lack of ethics, fraud, conflicts of interest, greed, enriching himself and his cronies at the expense of taxpayers and lower income citizens, and generally being a smarmy reprobate.  Any politics are secondary to his history of personal behavior. 

So outside of the HCA thing, which I explained my thoughts in my last post, how did he do any of these things outside of what all politicians or, in your eyes, the entire  Republican parties does?

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, aent said:

So outside of the HCA thing, which I explained my thoughts in my last post, how did he do any of these things outside of what all politicians or, in your eyes, the entire  Republican parties does?

"Other than that, what did you think of the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"

[dcluley98]

Well, I don't really need to "prove" anything, considering it's my personal opinion. You are entitled to yours as well, but since you asked nicely: 

• You mentioned the "HCA thing" which just so happens to be the LARGEST MEDICAL FRAUD IN AMERICAN HISTORY, but yeah, I'm sure he knew absolutely nothing about that
• His shady deals with Solantic/NextEra/Railroads FEC & AAF/Venezuela/SunPass
• Solantic, in general which was another very shady business he started with his daughter to funnel money from tax payers from poor people needing urgent medical care
• His administration paying job creation/tax incentives in companies he and his family/friends had financial interest in 
• Making money off of companies that benefit from the opioid crisis, but doing nothing to regulate or stop opioids from proliferating in our state (we are one of the worst in the world) 
• Actively trying to keep people disenfranchised by refusing to restore rights of felons despite their full participation in the program (this one IS, kinda political, admittedly, but it's a real scumbag thing to do, IMO and against the wishes of the general populace, as evidenced by the amendment passing) 
• His "blind" trust that mysteriously has same investments as his wife and investments that benefit by decisions/legislation while he held office
• Refusal to release financial records because he has millions hidden in Cayman Islands off-shore bank accounts

Seems like a real honest and stand-up guy. It surely is just a coincidence that he managed to get so rich without any knowledge of conflicts of interest, ethical lapses, or insider trading at all. He is just really smart or lucky to have had people invest his family and friends' money in things that would benefit from his administration's work.
 

Edited November 10, 2018 by dcluley98

[aent]

26 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Well, I don't really need to "prove" anything, considering it's my personal opinion. You are entitled to yours as well, but since you asked nicely: 

• You mentioned the "HCA thing" which just so happens to be the LARGEST MEDICAL FRAUD IN AMERICAN HISTORY, but yeah, I'm sure he knew absolutely nothing about that
• His shady deals with Solantic/NextEra/Railroads FEC & AAF/Venezuela/SunPass
• Solantic, in general which was another very shady business he started with his daughter to funnel money from tax payers from poor people needing urgent medical care
• His administration paying job creation/tax incentives in companies he and his family/friends had financial interest in 
• Making money off of companies that benefit from the opioid crises, but doing nothing to regulate or stop opioids from proliferating in our state (we are one of the worst in the world) 
• Actively trying to keep people disenfranchised by refusing to restore rights of felons despite their full participation in the program (this one IS, kinda political, admittedly, but it's a real scumbag thing to do, IMO and against the wishes of the general populace, as evidenced by the amendment passing) 
• His "blind" trust that mysteriously has same investments as his wife and investments that benefit by decisions/legislation while he held office
• Refusal to release financial records because he has millions hidden in Cayman Islands off-shore bank accounts

Seems like a real honest and stand-up guy. It surely is just a coincidence that he managed to get so rich without any knowledge of conflicts of interest, ethical lapses, or insider trading at all. He is just really smart or lucky to have had people invest his family and friends' money in things that would benefit from his administration's work.
 

HCA isn't the largest medical fraud in american history, it was at the time the largest settlement of a hospital corporation over fraud, excluding all pharmaceutical companies, and Rick Scott wanted to reject it, read my previous post on this manner. Obviously "shady deals" is an opinion, I think saving all the taxpayer dollars and giving FEC/AAF the right to build (without even giving them any money) is a great thing, ad definitely politics as usual.

Gillum gave his friend over a million dollars of tax dollars to open a restaurant in Tallahassee. Its politics, thats why I generally always want smaller government, them only doing whats absolutely necessary because most of what you said happens all the freakin time. Thats even part of the system, with the lobbyists. Rick Scott accomplished that, Gillum wants to add massive income tax to fund more of that shenanigans. And Rick Scott most definitely did pass regulations to fight the opioid crisis, I know doctors who told me about some of the changes they had to make as a result of it, and Florida doesn't seem to top the list per capita on opioid abuse from what I can see on Google.

[dcluley98]

I actually like the FEC/AAF deal for our rail system. I don't like the fact that our governor somehow managed to position himself to benefit from it financially.  That shouldn't happen. 

This isn't about Gillum. I didn't vote for Gillum, and as I said, I am not a Democrat. Gillum had his own scandals and doesn't seem very trustworthy either. I didn't vote for him, though because his economic policies are idiotic and would never work in real life and would just create more waste and hurt our state. 

I agree with you on the point of smaller government. I think most of them are corrupt. I don't think Bill Nelson is corrupt, but he IS a long-time politician. Hahaha. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by dcluley98

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

^^

You are wasting your breath and keystrokes, aent, trying to rationalize with leftists.  Why do you think I "deleted" my post above?

Wait a minute... you actually consider the comment: 

"Community Service Announcement: there’s still time to vote against Rick Scott. But you have to drive to Broward County to do it." 

....an example of trying to rationalize????

Come on.

You're smarter and classier than that.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, aent said:

So outside of the HCA thing, which I explained my thoughts in my last post, how did he do any of these things outside of what all politicians or, in your eyes, the entire  Republican parties does?

I know a lady who worked for HCA while Scott was at the helm.

She told me she started having her suspicions about him when he said to the employees during a presentation.... "I'm going to do for the medical profession what McDonald's did for fast food".

[spenser1058]

His comments are an important part of the Trumpist creed: that government exists only to line the pockets of the wealthy.

That was not always the GOP mantra. Republicans whom I've respected (even when I didn't agree with them much of the time) because I knew they had a semblance of decency about them have included Teresa Jacobs, Martha Haynie, Toni Jennings, Dan Webster, Bill Donegan, Glenda Hood, Lamar Alexander, Lou Frey, Jack Eckerd, Gerald Ford and I could name many others. 

The excuse, "everyone does it," simply is not true. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Amen on Gerald Ford. Teddy Roosevelt. . . John McCain. 

[aent]

57 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I know a lady who worked for HCA while Scott was at the helm.

She told me she started having her suspicions about him when he said to the employees during a presentation.... "I'm going to do for the medical profession what McDonald's did for fast food".

And if you look at HCA's facilities, its apparent that is indeed their goal. His start with the company was to buy a couple failing hospitals, bleeding money, and turn them around and make them profitable. HCA has never claimed to be the best quality healthcare, to be the industry leader in innovation of the industry and be a top research hospital, thats clearly not their goal at all. The goal is to treat as many patients as possible, keep the wait time down, and make their services very readily accessible. If you have a rare condition that needs top notch doctors, don't go to HCA, but if you have a common ailment that most doctors can treat without issue, HCA probably is going to service you faster then anyone else. And if you look at their facilities, they aren't trying to be impressive architectural statements, they're really generic buildings, they copy the same designs over and over again, ya know, all the things McDonalds does. McDonalds delivers a reasonable burger at a very fast speed and a reasonably cheap price. They aren't claiming to be the best burger, they're not claiming to be a healthy restaurant, they're claiming to be a fast, reasonable, cheap burger joint, and HCA has been trying to do the same for healthcare. There's no denying McDonalds revolutionized the fast food industry, even if you won't touch McDonalds with a 10 foot pole.

[dcluley98]

HCA's goal was to funnel as much money as possible through poor, needy people from government subsidies. 

Similar to McDonald's, it exploits weakness in the populace to extract cash in a dislocated way, from the taxpayers, and funnel the funds to the owners/corporate/upper managers. McDonald's didn't have to sink to outright fraud to do it, though. 

I don't know, it may just be me, but I find it morally repugnant to support parasitic corporations/people who prey upon disadvantaged/poor/unintelligent/hard-on-their-luck people for absolute profit. I am all for good businesses making profits and providing a service that benefits us all, but comparing the moral tendencies of our outgoing governor to his company HCA, and McDonald's and probably other similar paragons of efficiency and profit such as Phillip Morris or the Lottery system or casino industry is readily apparent, to me. 

This guy is a scumbag, smells like a scumbag, talks like a scumbag, smiles like a scumbag, doesn't seem to think he is a scumbag, despite evidence to the contrary (like most scumbags and psychopaths typically narcissistically compartmentalize), exploits other humans suffering like a scumbag, and takes the money and runs like a scumbag. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by dcluley98

[aent]

16 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

HCA's goal was to funnel as much money as possible through poor, needy people from government subsidies. 

Similar to McDonald's, it exploits weakness in the populace to extract cash in a dislocated way, from the taxpayers, and funnel the funds to the owners/corporate/upper managers. McDonald's didn't have to sink to outright fraud to do it, though. 

The goal of every business is to make money from all of its clients. Every poor person who gives Mcdonalds money is very happy for what they get in return. McDonalds exploits no one, everyone in the transactions is a willing participant who can walk away at any time. And its far better then the alternative: starving or no hot food at all. HCA also doesn't even attempt to collect from poor people, I have a very poor friend who was hospitalized and went to their facility, and once he provided proof of his earnings, HCA never attempted to collect anything, as their policy is not to collect anything if you make less then 200% of the poverty level, so they're much friendlier to the poor then other hospitals, who put them on forever payment plans.

[dcluley98]

33 minutes ago, aent said:

The goal of every business is to make money from all of its clients. Every poor person who gives Mcdonalds money is very happy for what they get in return. McDonalds exploits no one, everyone in the transactions is a willing participant who can walk away at any time. And its far better then the alternative: starving or no hot food at all. HCA also doesn't even attempt to collect from poor people, I have a very poor friend who was hospitalized and went to their facility, and once he provided proof of his earnings, HCA never attempted to collect anything, as their policy is not to collect anything if you make less then 200% of the poverty level, so they're much friendlier to the poor then other hospitals, who put them on forever payment plans.

Tell that to the labor that is living below the poverty line and the "managers" who were titled such under the FLSA law to exploit them into working 60+ hours a week on a minimum wage "salary" and the people who suffer health problems because they can't afford better nutrition or live in a food desert in the inner city. This is not an ideal system. Free choice is free choice, many of these people do not have free choice, and the business model is clearly exploitative.   You are not helping your argument to me by comparing the two. 

The poor people aren't the money source, Duh! They're fuhging poor, and have no money. They are the FUNNEL. These companies and people are taking the money from the majority of us and the middle class via the poor people through government subsidies of the poor by exploiting their weaknesses. 

This is not a Republican vs. Democrat thing. It is Rich/Powerful exploiting us thing.  They make it Republican vs. Democrat so it is much easier to exploit us.  

Edited November 10, 2018 by dcluley98

[aent]

6 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Tell that to the labor that is living below the poverty line and the "managers" who were titled such under the FLSA law to exploit them into working 60+ hours a week on a minimum wage "salary" and the people who suffer health problems because they can't afford better nutrition or live in a food desert in the inner city. This is not an ideal system. Free choice is free choice, many of these people do not have free choice, and the business model is clearly exploitative.   You are not helping your argument to me by comparing the two. 

The poor people aren't the money source, Duh! They're fuhging poor, and have no money. They are the FUNNEL. These companies and people are taking the money from the majority of us and the middle class via the poor people through government subsidies of the poor by exploiting their weaknesses. 

This is not a Republican vs. Democrat thing. It is Rich/Powerful exploiting us thing.  They make it Republican vs. Democrat so it is much easier to exploit us.  

FLSA doesn't allow people to work 60+ hours a week on a salary at minimum wage, they must be compensated per hour at time and a half for overtime hours. Workers must make a minimum of more than $47k for the employer not to keep track of overtime hours and pay salary only, which even at 60 hours a week, is above $15/hr. Also, buying better nutrition food at Walmart or the grocery stores is still far cheaper then McDonalds. It just takes more time, and McDonalds generally tastes better. They have the free choice to go to a grocery store, buy some  food, pack some lunch, they CHOOSE not to. Thats not what they want, so they're not being exploited. I eat McDonalds sometimes as well, free choice, because when I want something fast, filling, cheap, and tasty, I generally feel like its my best choice. Also, what government subsidy pushes the poor people to McDonalds since you say they aren't taking money directly from the poor people? McDonalds doesn't take food stamps, while the alternative for them does. You just don't like the decision those people make, and I guess feel they're too dumb to make their own decisions so you need to make it for them.

[JFW657]

10 hours ago, aent said:

The goal of every business is to make money from all of its clients. Every poor person who gives Mcdonalds money is very happy for what they get in return. McDonalds exploits no one, everyone in the transactions is a willing participant who can walk away at any time. And its far better then the alternative: starving or no hot food at all. HCA also doesn't even attempt to collect from poor people, I have a very poor friend who was hospitalized and went to their facility, and once he provided proof of his earnings, HCA never attempted to collect anything, as their policy is not to collect anything if you make less then 200% of the poverty level, so they're much friendlier to the poor then other hospitals, who put them on forever payment plans.

Soooo.... Rick Scott and HCA were warm, fuzzy, kind hearted philanthropists whose only goal was to give away free health care to poor people, while making tons of money in the process (????????).   

But they still ripped off the taxpayers to the tune of billions of dollars.

No excuse or justification for that.

[aent]

2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Soooo.... Rick Scott and HCA were warm, fuzzy, kind hearted philanthropists whose only goal was to give away free health care to poor people, while making tons of money in the process (????????).   

But they still ripped off the taxpayers to the tune of billions of dollars.

No excuse or justification for that.

I guess thats the liberal thing to do and what made Jordan Peterson so popular, stick words with no resemblance to what was said in people who disagree with your thought's mouth. I mean seriously, read the first line of your quote of what I wrote, and it literally says the opposite of your ridiculous assertion.

[dcluley98]

20 hours ago, aent said:

FLSA doesn't allow people to work 60+ hours a week on a salary at minimum wage, they must be compensated per hour at time and a half for overtime hours. Workers must make a minimum of more than $47k for the employer not to keep track of overtime hours and pay salary only

This happened about 2 years ago because Obama passed a law to change it.  Before that happened, it was $455 a week (or about $23,660 depending how many hours they worked), and the law was struck down by a Texas Judge that overuled it in federal court  (State of Nevada, et al. v. United States Department of Labor, et al., No. 4:16-CV-00731) . McDonald's has been happy to exploit their workers for overtime at that rate for YEARS while Rick Scott was a CEO admiring their business model and while he was in office as Governor. So you are clearly against democratic policies that help labor, but you are citing a rule that a democratic president created specifically to limit the power of corporations to exploit workers. 

I am not saying I want to make a "decision" for poor people. I am saying at times, they do not have a "decision" to make. You act like it's a choice for people to be poor, which is typical of somebody who has never been poor and always argues bootstraps, right-wing talking points about hard work. In the real world, this is not always the case. I am saying a lot of these people don't have many options or opportunities, and corporations and other people should not be allowed to exploit them for that. (student loans and for-profit universities/schools are another aspect of this that I despise, in addition to those corporations). 

Edited November 11, 2018 by dcluley98

[aent]

8 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

This happened about 2 years ago because Obama passed a law to change it.  Before that happened, it was $455 a week (or about $23,660 depending how many hours they worked), and the law was struck down by a Texas Judge that overuled it in federal court  (State of Nevada, et al. v. United States Department of Labor, et al., No. 4:16-CV-00731) . McDonald's has been happy to exploit their workers for overtime at that rate for YEARS while Rick Scott was a CEO admiring their business model and while he was in office as Governor. So you are clearly against democratic policies that help labor, but you are citing a rule that a democratic president created specifically to limit the power of corporations to exploit workers. 

I am not saying I want to make a "decision" for poor people. I am saying at times, they do not have a "decision" to make. You act like it's a choice for people to be poor, which is typical of somebody who has never been poor and always argues bootstraps, right-wing talking points about hard work. In the real world, this is not always the case. I am saying a lot of these people don't have many options or opportunities, and corporations and other people should not be allowed to exploit them for that. (student loans and for-profit universities/schools are another aspect of this that I despise, in addition to corporations). 

Ok, even under the old hour requirements, it still was above minimum wage, and 60 hour weeks are extremely rare, and the old rate for that was still $11.38/hour, several dollars above the federal minimum wage, infact its 60% higher then minimum wage,

And poor people do have decisions to make as well. There are lots of jobs with different opportunities for advancement, and different pay rates, especially in the great economy we have now. If you are stuck in a minimum wage job these days, you are simply not looking or there is something seriously wrong (such as convictions for crimes preventing you from getting many jobs). All people have decisions to make. It may suck having to go to interviews after your full work day, and having to do more work on top of your already full time job to make extra money, but they can do it. I'm not saying its easy, you may have to work really hard to improve your situation, way harder then other people, but its very possible for everyone in America to do it. Thats why plenty of immigrants come here with nothing and love this place. Thats why we can't stop people from coming here illegally, often to earn LESS then minimum wage when they start, because they're getting skills, and if they work their butt off, they can make way more then they could other places.

It is super sad that you despise corporations, they've given us sooo much. They wrote the operating system for whatever device you're using, right here in America, regardless of if its Apple, Microsoft, Android, etc. This forum software was developed here in America. Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, NVIDIA, AMD, Intel, all designed in America, and the leaders internationally. No other country has a portfolio quite like the US for good reason. Its been a while since slavery, and people have plenty of choice about where to work, or even if they want to work, we don't let anyone starve in this country either (although many choose to eat really, really poorly, thats why the poor tend to be obese, not starving)

And yes, I do cite the rules we have, not the rules that I want there to be, because I'd be citing non-existent things and the only way to prove that things would be okay with the rules I want is for us to have the rules I want (and that ain't gonna happen, since neither party seems to match my desires and set of rules, and I promise I have no future in politics lol)

[dcluley98]

I think your math is off. . . $455/60 would be about $7.58 an hour, although I don't know if they could have paid them less than an effective minimum wage, but you are missing the point. The point is that the company was happy to use the loophole to take advantage of their employees, even if it wasn't exactly minimum wage as I stated.  The democrats made the law specifically because companies like McDonald's WERE exploiting the workers. It didn't happen by accident. 

I don't despise corporations. I dislike corporations that exploit their employees, and think labor should have more bargaining power to protect themselves. I don't know how you can make a logical jump from my statements above about particular parasitic corporations to me implicating that ALL corporations are bad. That's like me saying that Jeffrey Dahmer was an asshole meaning I hate all people. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by dcluley98

[JFW657]

12 hours ago, aent said:

I guess thats the liberal thing to do and what made Jordan Peterson so popular, stick words with no resemblance to what was said in people who disagree with your thought's mouth. I mean seriously, read the first line of your quote of what I wrote, and it literally says the opposite of your ridiculous assertion.

From your post I quoted: "HCA also doesn't even attempt to collect from poor people, I have a very poor friend who was hospitalized and went to their facility, and once he provided proof of his earnings, HCA never attempted to collect anything, as their policy is not to collect anything if you make less then 200% of the poverty level, so they're much friendlier to the poor then other hospitals".

I assumed it was obvious that I was being sarcastic with the warm, fuzzy philanthropists stuff, but nonetheless, it certainly seemed to me that you were attempting to whitewash HCA and the crooked things they did. I'm guessing because Scott is a Republican, and was at the helm when it all occurred.

I guess that's the conservative thing to do.

[dcluley98]

I don't even know what Aent's point is. He asked me why I dislike Scott and other parasitic entities like his companies, including HCA and Solantic, and similar companies like McDonald's, so I told him.  It's my opinion. I think he still believes I am a democrat and is trying to discredit my opinions for some reason. They are opinions though, based upon my view of the facts, so they can't really be discredited. He is entitled to his own opinions. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by dcluley98

[TRENCH]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:06 PM, Dale said:

Democrats raise identity politics to an art form an then feign outrage when white folks want a place at the table.

a seat at the ta- LMAOOO

I dont comment much In this website, much less in political threads, but for you to say that white folks are missing seats in different tables to begin with is a bit much, considering they have had a seat at every possible existing table for the past 200+ years in this country. Some Hispanics and Black are still playing musical chairs around the table while Native Americans are still waiting outside the diner to get a seat.

As a gay Hispanic, I agree that identity politics takes away from the focus of factual, data driven, and important qualifications, and its overall problematic at times.  But unfortunately there are people being suppressed because of their identity and/or physicality makeup. Just because you have never seen it (the suppression or need of identity politics), doesn't mean it is not happening.

Edited November 12, 2018 by W7edwin

[jrs2]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:59 PM, JFW657 said:

Wait a minute... you actually consider the comment: 

"Community Service Announcement: there’s still time to vote against Rick Scott. But you have to drive to Broward County to do it." 

....an example of trying to rationalize????

Come on.

You're smarter and classier than that.

I put it out as bait to see if anyone was even reading my posts...  Thanks, JFW657!

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 10:09 PM, dcluley98 said:

I don't even know what Aent's point is. He asked me why I dislike Scott and other parasitic entities like his companies, including HCA and Solantic, and similar companies like McDonald's, so I told him.  It's my opinion. I think he still believes I am a democrat and is trying to discredit my opinions for some reason. They are opinions though, based upon my view of the facts, so they can't really be discredited. He is entitled to his own opinions. 

well, you're a Gator, so you're alright by me

[jrs2]

Religion and politics, people.  My parents warned me to stay out of these discussions.  I almost got dragged in...

For every sin the Democrats are guilty of, I can name 1 for the Republicans, and vice versa.  Politicians are dirty.  At the end of the day, you should vote wallet, as my dad used to say, and not bullcrap ideology. 

I told everyone here I felt that Trump was controlled opposition to appease a large segment of society that was getting fed up with the "system" or the "establishment."  I still believe that.  Politicians want one thing, money.  They are whores.  But they're also puppets.  Altruism doesn't exist at that level, only lip service- and I mean also the State level.

I believe the two parties are part of the same coin, and they throw us a bone every once in a while to appease us.  It is all for the most part orchestrated, right down to feuds between CNN and FOX.  It is a sh!t show and we're the audience paying a ticket to it.  They want to keep us fighting.  Gillum good, Scott bad; Trump good, Hillary bad, and so on. 

I, for one, am tired of being manipulated and used like the glass window at a peep show booth, or the VHS tape slot of a VCR to a horny teenager watching the movie "10" or reading the Sears Catalogue whilst.

Edited November 12, 2018 by jrs2