LOCAL and Florida Politics

[aent]

3 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Since neither Hillary Clinton nor Andrew Gillum are criminals, your point is moot. Rick Scott ran a corporation that defrauded taxpayers out of billions of dollars by over billing Medicare and Medicaid. The idea that he didn't know what was going on is laughable. Everyone who is being honest with themselves knows that Donald Trump and his family are mired in political and financial entanglements with Russia. Trump himself almost certainly evaded paying untold millions in taxes and has probably obstructed justice on several occasions since taking office. 

 

Rick Scott and Donald Trump have the same exact number of convictions, or even indictments, as Hillary Clinton and Andrew Gillium. All have been subject to extensive FBI investigations regarding crimes they're linked to, that is not really deniable (maybe except for Trump, not sure on him, but I'll leave him in the same category). Hillary even had her political and financial entanglements with the same freakin country, Russia, and if you're ignoring that...

Likely all the candidates and pretty much all rich people are guilty of evading a mass amount of taxes, because the tax code and exemptions are so freakin complicated. Trump tried to reduce some of the pain and simplify it so we reduce the situation of laws being sparsely enforced, leaving tons of room for racism/discrimination where the enforcement agents have free reign over who to choose to enforce laws everybody is violating... such as speed limits and our drug laws (which might I point out, Trump is promising to improve right now,  I don't think he'll go far enough on the issue for my tastes, but it is quite interesting the supposed "left" issue got no action when Obama had full control with both the senate/house, and now its finally getting some movement with the "right" in control... just as gay marriage had to be handled by the supreme court, which we're all told is right leaning and has been for basically ever, when the left had control of both other branches and did nothing the entire time they were in power. Thats the problem, while the left no doubt has some very real problems they're screaming about, all they know how to do is always throwing money at problems, claiming it will make jobs, and often not solving the very problem they threw a ton of money at.

And I can't help but to mention you completely ignored my description of the real problem with the healthcare system (a lack of supply for the demand we have). The healthcare doesn't appear out of nowhere. Where are these doctors and nurses looking for jobs, unable to find work anywhere where they live? Every doctor I know seems to have a TON of hours, long shifts, etc. Unlike the fast food workers, its completely unheard of to hear of a doctor who wants to work more hours and isn't offered that within a single job.

[AmIReal]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

we should make it harder to vote, not easier

I think that is a bad idea, but it is simply my opinion. I am all for more people voting and think amendment 4 was a nice step forward. I also support e-voting as well as more polling places. I don't understand how any one could oppose having more people involved in the process.

 

1 hour ago, Dale said:

voters still tend Republican on the national, and Republicans maintain a hammerlock at the state level

Not quite true. Dems got about 8% more votes in the most recent election. Also took several governorships and turned several state houses. I think republicans owe most of their seats in blue and purple states to gerrymandering. Although if what you are saying is the pure number of states that prefer republican is more than  democrats, then you are correct.

On that subject of gerrymandering this could be interesting for North Carolina (btw, I don't like the tone of this article I'm just passing it along for info) https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/north-carolina-gerrymandering-lawsuit-anita-earls.html

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

I think that is a bad idea, but it is simply my opinion. I am all for more people voting and think amendment 4 was a nice step forward. I also support e-voting as well as more polling places. I don't understand how any one could oppose having more people involved in the process.

 

Not quite true. Dems got about 8% more votes in the most recent election. Also took several governorships and turned several state houses. I think republicans owe most of their seats in blue and purple states to gerrymandering. Although if what you are saying is the pure number of states that prefer republican is more than  democrats, then you are correct.

On that subject of gerrymandering this could be interesting for North Carolina (btw, I don't like the tone of this article I'm just passing it along for info) https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/11/north-carolina-gerrymandering-lawsuit-anita-earls.html

I’m talking about Florida. For all the years of hand-wringing and bemoaning, Florida is redder than bluer. And it’s only gerrymandering when you lose.

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

As we celebrate Seminole County's march towards becoming ever more purple (thanks, SemDems!), it seems their local Republican leadership is getting cranky:

http://orlando-politics.com/2018/11/17/-seminole-county-party-boss-townsend-blocks-new-republican-members-from-joining-county-chapter/

From Orlando Politics

Seminole is following what seems to be a nationwide trend of suburban counties switching to the blue side.

Along with Florida's seventh largest county shifting blue in the recent midterms at the top of the ticket (Duval/Jacksonville), we can see the path forward for 2020.

The challenge is going to be that the retiree counties (like Sumter, Citrus, Hernando) are rapidly expanding with new residents who are likely to vote and register Republican. Democrats ignore these voters at their peril. The party has to bring these newest Floridians into the community by emphasizing services they want and need (along with our longstanding commitment to protect Medicare) to gain their trust. Off to The Villages we go!

The other OC,  the long-standing bastion of Reagan-era politics and third most populous county in CA, was a blue sweep:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/17/us/politics/cisneros-orange-county-democrats.amp.html

...”as CA goes, so goes the country”.

[Dale]

3 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

The other OC,  the long-standing bastion of Reagan-era politics and third most populous county in CA, was a blue sweep:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/17/us/politics/cisneros-orange-county-democrats.amp.html

...”as CA goes, so goes the country”.

Basically, California is irrelevant. It’s been out of GOP hands for years and does not make or break GOP chances. That falls to other states.

[Tennessine]

Since 2000, Ohio and Florida beg to differ with "as California goes."

[Dale]

7 minutes ago, nativetenn said:

Since 2000, Ohio and Florida beg to differ with "as California goes."

Tennessee too, despite Taylor Swift’s best efforts.

[prahaboheme]

11 minutes ago, Dale said:

Basically, California is irrelevant. It’s been out of GOP hands for years and does not make or break GOP chances. That falls to other states.

CA flipped 5 of 6 House seats held by Republicans.

Whether you find the state irrelevant or not is inconsequential.

[Dale]

13 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

CA flipped 5 of 6 House seats held by Republicans.

Whether you find the state irrelevant or not is inconsequential.

Fake news: California Flips House to Democrats

Edited November 18, 2018 by Dale

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, aent said:

Rick Scott and Donald Trump have the same exact number of convictions, or even indictments, as Hillary Clinton and Andrew Gillium. All have been subject to extensive FBI investigations regarding crimes they're linked to, that is not really deniable (maybe except for Trump, not sure on him, but I'll leave him in the same category). Hillary even had her political and financial entanglements with the same freakin country, Russia, and if you're ignoring that...

Tell us all about the millions of dollars in loans Hillary had to get from Russian banks, some probably linked to Putin, in order to keep her hotel empire operating because American banks wouldn't loan to her anymore. Oh wait, that's Trump. Hillary is not millions of dollars in debt to any banks, Russian or otherwise.

And though she and her husband were the subject of a Special Council and FBI investigation, not one shred of evidence has ever been found that she ever broke one law.

We'll see how Trump, his son and his son in law fare with Robert Mueller, but I wouldn't put my money on them. And don't be surprised if Trump ends up letting Don Jr and Kushner take the fall for him.

2 hours ago, aent said:

Likely all the candidates and pretty much all rich people are guilty of evading a mass amount of taxes, because the tax code and exemptions are so freakin complicated. Trump tried to reduce some of the pain and simplify it so we reduce the situation of laws being sparsely enforced, leaving tons of room for racism/discrimination where the enforcement agents have free reign over who to choose to enforce laws everybody is violating... such as speed limits and our drug laws (which might I point out, Trump is promising to improve right now,  I don't think he'll go far enough on the issue for my tastes, but it is quite interesting the supposed "left" issue got no action when Obama had full control with both the senate/house, and now its finally getting some movement with the "right" in control... just as gay marriage had to be handled by the supreme court, which we're all told is right leaning and has been for basically ever, when the left had control of both other branches and did nothing the entire time they were in power. Thats the problem, while the left no doubt has some very real problems they're screaming about, all they know how to do is always throwing money at problems, claiming it will make jobs, and often not solving the very problem they threw a ton of money at.

Sorry, but your "everybody does it, so it's OK" excuse doesn't hold any water not to mention it's totally inaccurate. It was reported just last month how Trump set up a sham corporation to disguise hundreds of millions of dollars as "gifts" from his parents and in doing so, reduced the taxes on the money by tens of millions in the process. Please don't tell me everybody does that.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-tax-fraud-allegations-investigation-1149877

The rest of the rambling, irrelevant tangent I have no comment on.

2 hours ago, aent said:

And I can't help but to mention you completely ignored my description of the real problem with the healthcare system (a lack of supply for the demand we have). The healthcare doesn't appear out of nowhere. Where are these doctors and nurses looking for jobs, unable to find work anywhere where they live? Every doctor I know seems to have a TON of hours, long shifts, etc. Unlike the fast food workers, its completely unheard of to hear of a doctor who wants to work more hours and isn't offered that within a single job.

The new health care jobs created by expanding Medicaid would not be doctors and nurses but other support personnel working in jobs related to health care.

Expanding Medicaid would not create as many new patients as it would increase the number of patients which doctors and hospitals would be reimbursed for. Right now, uninsured people go to the ER where they clog up waiting rooms and wait all day for treatment that they can't pay for and cannot be forced to, so the hospitals end up eating the cost themselves. 

That is the crux of the matter and why every hospital in the state as well as the major hospital association which represents their interests, begged on their knees for Scott and the legislature to expand Medicaid, only for their pleas to fall on deaf ears.

Republicans cannot govern responsibly because they place ideology ahead of doing what's right for the public.

[aent]

4 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Not quite true. Dems got about 8% more votes in the most recent election. Also took several governorships and turned several state houses. I think republicans owe most of their seats in blue and purple states to gerrymandering. Although if what you are saying is the pure number of states that prefer republican is more than  democrats, then you are correct.

 

In order to gerrymander, you need control of said state, so Republicans can't gerrymander in blue states, they can only do it in red states. Democrats can only gerrymander in blue states, not in red states. Thats how that system works.

 

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The new health care jobs created by expanding Medicaid would not be doctors and nurses but other support personnel working in jobs related to health care.

Expanding Medicaid would not create as many new patients as it would increase the number of patients which doctors and hospitals would be reimbursed for. Right now, uninsured people go to the ER where they clog up waiting rooms and wait all day for treatment that they can't pay for and cannot be forced to, so the hospitals end up eating the cost themselves. 

That is the crux of the matter and why every hospital in the state as well as the major hospital association which represents their interests, begged on their knees for Scott and the legislature to expand Medicaid, only for their pleas to fall on deaf ears.

So the purpose of medicaid is not to help the poor, but to help the hospital corporations like Rick Scott's HCA make much more money and add additional bureaucracy to the healthcare system?

Hospitals are reimbursed for all the patients they can't get paid on by there super-high rates for those they can collect on. Why should we reimburse them on those and still let them charge the same rates? Hospitals generally are making plenty of money, they don't need new government handouts.

[JFW657]

51 minutes ago, aent said:

So the purpose of medicaid is not to help the poor, but to help the hospital corporations like Rick Scott's HCA make much more money and add additional bureaucracy to the healthcare system?

I suppose when you have no logical rebuttal to facts, your next move is to twist the meaning of your opponent's words around to mean something utterly ridiculous. Oldest deflection tactic in the books. 

Obviously the main purpose of expanding Medicaid is to help not only indigent poor families with children, which is ALL it currently does, but to also provide access to health care for WORKING PEOPLE who don't qualify for traditional Medicaid because they 1) have no children and/or 2) make too much money to qualify but not enough to afford insurance. But among the many other ADDITIONAL benefits, is the one where hospitals get reimbursed for every patient they treat, which they aren't doing now. 

52 minutes ago, aent said:

Hospitals are reimbursed for all the patients they can't get paid on by there super-high rates for those they can collect on. Why should we reimburse them on those and still let them charge the same rates? Hospitals generally are making plenty of money, they don't need new government handouts.

Utter nonsense. Hospitals each get a certain annual lump sum for the purpose of offsetting the burden of unreimbursed care, but it nowhere near covers what they spend. So yes, everyone else IS paying the cost of unreimbursed care via the higher rates charged to both self-paying, non-insured patients as well as insurance companies, who pass the cost on to policy holders in the form of higher premiums.

But contrary to what you seem to feel, that is not a good thing. Far from it. It damages the economy by taking money people could be spending on other things and forcing it to be spent on health insurance. Plus, there's the issue of all those jobs I spoke of that don't get created because of not expanding Medicaid.

Basic economics 101. I'm kinda surprised you don't understand it.

Anyway, my big question to you is, why would anyone in their right mind advocate paying higher health insurance premiums to foot the cost of non-paying ER patients? Do you truly want that just because you're against "gub'mint handouts"??? Sounds like yet another example of conservative ideology being placed above doing what's good for society.

I don't see where you have as yet made a convincing argument against it.

[jrs2]

^^

I’ll let you all keep debating the nuances of politics even though the entire system is a complete orchestrated sham.

[prahaboheme]

8 hours ago, aent said:

In order to gerrymander, you need control of said state, so Republicans can't gerrymander in blue states, they can only do it in red states. Democrats can only gerrymander in blue states, not in red states. Thats how that system works.

 

So the purpose of medicaid is not to help the poor, but to help the hospital corporations like Rick Scott's HCA make much more money and add additional bureaucracy to the healthcare system?

Hospitals are reimbursed for all the patients they can't get paid on by there super-high rates for those they can collect on. Why should we reimburse them on those and still let them charge the same rates? Hospitals generally are making plenty of money, they don't need new government handouts.

Exactly why North Carolina is the example referenced. Seems you didn’t pick up the reference, or read the article, or more likely both in your earnest attempt to be heard again.

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

^^

I’ll let you all keep debating the nuances of politics even though the entire system is a complete orchestrated sham.

Yes - it’s better to leave this to the adults.

[spenser1058]

23 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Yes - it’s better to leave this to the adults.

*Sits quietly in the corner and smiles happily with an RC and a moon pie*

[prahaboheme]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

*Sits quietly in the corner and smiles happily with an RC and a moon pie*

And a blue wave that scares the few?

[spenser1058]

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

And a blue wave that scares the few?

Although we took some hits this time, the actual numbers of the losses at the top of the ticket were incredibly small.

Meanwhile, two major counties shifted blue, we picked up congressional and legislative seats and OC is now officially blue.

We also saved the greyhounds and most importantly passed Amendment 4 which is going to make a big difference going forward. It's also the right thing to do.

We represent inclusiveness and progress.

We also know how to fix things in the predominantly retiree counties. More power to us if we do.

All in all, life is good.

Edited November 19, 2018 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

FL will carry on.  Orlando is now solidly blue.

Let the choir cry.

Edited November 19, 2018 by prahaboheme

[Dale]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

^^

I’ll let you all keep debating the nuances of politics even though the entire system is a complete orchestrated sham.

I put to you it’s bad vs less bad and leave you to guess which is which.

[Dale]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

FL will carry on.  Orlando is now solidly blue.

Let the choir cry.

Well of course, cities breed collectivism, identity politics, scooters, fish tacos and the hope that felons will be faithful Democrats. The only thing that has changed, from the urban vs rural divide is that, at least in the midterms, suburbs voted like cities and exurbs voted like rural.

But I think it is reasonable to surmise this was more of an anti-Trump spasm than a permanent realignment. 

Up here in Charlotte the county commission went 9-0 Democrat. And even the liberal Charlotte Observer thinks that sort of imbalance is a spectacularly bad idea.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Dale

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

I put to you it’s bad vs less bad and leave you to guess which is which.

Oh, by no means do I regret Trump getting in and DeSantis quelling talk of open borders in Florida.  

 

4 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Yes - it’s better to leave this to the adults.

LOL.  I'm not marching around Lake Eola or crying out to the heavens in DC, am I?  So who's the adults?

[Dale]

Just now, jrs2 said:

Oh, by no means do I regret Trump getting in and DeSantis quelling talk of open borders in Florida.  

 

LOL.  I'm not marching around Lake Eola or crying out to the heavens in DC, am I?  So who's the adults?

I’m an older guy and have been through many election cycles. Defeated parties are never happy.  But I have never seen an opposing party as unhinged as are Democrats today. 

[jrs2]

13 minutes ago, Dale said:

I’m an older guy and have been through many election cycles. Defeated parties are never happy.  But I have never seen an opposing party as unhinged as are Democrats today. 

Look, Dale, Spenser1058 "liked" my post above, so I can't comment on this out of respect.  Respect, Spenser1058, respect!

[Dale]

1 minute ago, jrs2 said:

Look, Dale, Spenser1058 "liked" my post above, so I can't comment on this out of respect.  Respect, Spenser1058, respect!

Maybe he’s coming around!