LOCAL and Florida Politics

[Dale]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Believing in a stance and saying why, is one thing; supporting a stance when the ultimate goal is not what's being presented is something else.

Malcom X said it right, and I paraphrase:  The difference between conservatives and liberals is that conservatives tell you what they're about, but liberals are more "deceitful and hypocritical" about it.  See the following link:

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=malcom+x+on+liberals&view=detail&mid=38B85B55C2F03D3BB5A538B85B55C2F03D3BB5A5&FORM=VIRE

But here's a great segment where he completely slays "liberals": liberals are like the fox to the sheep...

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=malcom+x+on+liberals&view=detail&mid=4152526FFC5EBFF8CC004152526FFC5EBFF8CC00&FORM=VIRE

I'll let Malcom do the talking for me.

 

That’s racist!

[jrs2]

.

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by jrs2

[spenser1058]

Hank was right. I really wish I could take back this thread.

[jrs2]

55 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Well, I suppose those who cannot articulate their position themselves will resort to using generalized quotes from others who aren't even around anymore.

If conservatives (supposedly) "tell you what they're about", then why do they have to rely on the words of someone else from over fifty years ago, to tell us what they're about today?

Besides, we all know what conservatives are about. Cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy, while gutting regulations meant to protect the public from the consequences of corporate greed. All of which requires forcing regular working and middle class citizens to make do with less and less, while the wealthy continue to amass more and more and more.

Worse yet, in their ruthless, hard-nosed, end-justifies-the-means quest to cement their grip on ultimate power and crush any and all future opposition, they are willing to use the laws and the Constitution as a door mat by enacting voter suppression laws that put unnecessary burdens on Americans who vote Democrat.

One glaring example took place this year in North Dakota. Several thousand native Americans on reservations were denied the right to vote because the Republicans in charge of the state's voting system changed the rules to require a street address be shown on their ID. This was done with the full knowledge, that on the reservations where they live, many people have traditionally used P.O. boxes as their address because there are no street addresses. Native Americans in ND voted overwhelmingly for the Democrat candidate.

In Georgia, eligible voters didn’t show up on the registration rolls or were purged by the state. Thousands of Georgians had their registrations put on hold and weren’t sure if they’d be able to vote. Some voters were wrongly flagged as non-citizens; others had their ballots rejected because poll workers told them they had the wrong ID. Hundreds of polling places were shuttered before the election, and other precincts had four-hour lines. Absentee ballots were rejected because of signature mismatches or other minor errors. All this while the Republican candidate was also the state's election supervisor.

The same types of things happened in other red States, too.

Republicans have well earned their reputation for being cravenly underhanded and dishonest. 

 

Malcom X; a major black eye on the Democratic Party and on liberals as a whole.  Why should he be forgotten, suppressed, or ignored, because you don't like what he had to say?

As to your other points, I don't give much weight to the cries of voter suppression to insinuate voter fraud, when my mom still receives early voting mailers for herself AND MY LATE FATHER from the DNC ("Late" means he's dead).  Yeah, 4 years later, mind you.  Shameful. 

Add to that Obama telling a Latino undocumented female at the 2012 town hall debate that she could go and vote with no fear of repercussion (probably in a Blue county and/or sanctuary city, that is). 

As for this other stuff you wrote about, if it came from the same MSM that was publishing fake polls in 2016, and fake articles with small retractions cleverly placed in the last line of the article, then I don't give it much weight at all.  What did Malcom say, deceitful?  I'd say that's spot on.

Edited November 21, 2018 by jrs2

[dcluley98]

Here's a quote from some Mexican Guy (I assume, one of the good people): 
"We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe."

- Don Miguel Ruiz
 

[Dale]

Speaking of Mexicans, voting twice for the Deporter-in-Chief proves that Democrats are not to be taken seriously when they preen about immigration.

[spenser1058]

Steve Schale, the elections guru who helped engineer both of President Obama's Florida wins, goes into detail about how the numbers could look like 2014 all over again even as the state's urban areas were raking up New Democratic votes:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-schale-desantis-gillum-election-20181121-story,amp.html

From the Sentinel

Interestingly, the I4 Corridor is more important than ever but the difference is expanding to the margins to the right and left of the core I4 counties.

Schale doesn't address it specifically, but retirees in Volusia, Brevard, Pasco, Hernando, Citrus and The Villages counties neutralized huge urban turnouts for Democrats.

Let's be clear: there was no shellacking at the top of the ticket this year. However, to clear the margins we have to address these new (to Florida) elderly voters.

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Malcom X; a major black eye on the Democratic Party and on liberals as a whole.  Why should he be forgotten, suppressed, or ignored, because you don't like what he had to say?

How is Malcom X a black eye on the Democratic Party and liberals when he wasn't a member of either party or ideology?

Funny how conservatives happily quote someone who they despise with every fiber of their being if the words support their agenda.

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

As to your other points, I don't give much weight to the cries of voter suppression to insinuate voter fraud, when my mom still receives early voting mailers for herself AND MY LATE FATHER from the DNC ("Late" means he's dead).  Yeah, 4 years later, mind you.  Shameful. 

Your unprovable anecdote means absolutely nothing and has zero to do with the very real and documented problem of Republican sponsored voter suppression. In fact, all it shows is that you don't want to talk about it. I can see why. I would be embarrassed about it too if I was a Republican.

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Add to that Obama telling a Latino undocumented female at the 2012 town hall debate that she could go and vote with no fear of repercussion (probably in a Blue county and/or sanctuary city, that is). 

That story is a proven falsehood that is soundly and roundly debunked right here:

From Snopes:

"The claim originates from an interview with Obama published on 3 November 2016, in which millennial actress Gina Rodriguez asked the president about a number of issues facing young Latinos. Many of the outrage posts were written around a video in which the majority of the president’s response was edited out to give the misleading impression that Obama was urging undocumented immigrants to vote illegally:

In the full interview, it’s clear Obama is urging Latino citizens to vote in order to give voice to members of their community who are precluded from doing so by lack of citizenship, not urging non-citizens to vote illegally."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote

When one has to resort to right-wing propaganda and debunked falsehoods to make their point, they had no point to begin with and everything else they say is tainted and cannot be taken seriously. 

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

As for this other stuff you wrote about, if it came from the same MSM that was publishing fake polls in 2016, and fake articles with small retractions cleverly placed in the last line of the article, then I don't give it much weight at all. 

From "Right-wing Phony Debate Tactics 101": Rule #1 - When on the ropes, just deflect the issue by dragging out the old "MSM fake news" dodge. Doesn't prove anything but it looks better than saying nothing.

Fake polls in 2016? What fake polls?

Fake articles? What fake articles?

You must be confusing real news sources with conservative propaganda pushers like Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars, etc, etc. Because THEY are the purveyors of fake news, not the legitimate sources the right has spent decades demonizing for their own crooked, dishonest ends. You need look no further than the fake story you just referenced about the supposed Obama immigration comment as proof. Too funny that you'd talk about the MSM and fake news after pushing a fake right-wing propaganda story yourself. I'm not suggesting you lied on purpose, but you unwittingly at best, passed along a right-wing lie that was spoon fed to you by the same people who tell you that the mainstream media are the ones lying to you. You guys get lied to by the right-wing media like teenage girls in the back seat on prom night.

And they don't respect you in the morning either.

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

What did Malcom say, deceitful?  I'd say that's spot on.

Malcom X died in 1965, over 53 years ago. The two major political parties in America, like society as a whole, were part of a vastly different world. Anything he said about anything is probably older than you are. To dredge up some cherry-picked comments from a long gone era only bespeaks the desperation of one who cannot defend his own ideology so he props it up using the words of others from ancient history. 

 

.

Edited November 21, 2018 by JFW657

[Dale]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Steve Schale, the elections guru who helped engineer both of President Obama's Florida wins, goes into detail about how the numbers could look like 2014 all over again even as the state's urban areas were raking up New Democratic votes:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/political-pulse/os-schale-desantis-gillum-election-20181121-story,amp.html

From the Sentinel

Interestingly, the I4 Corridor is more important than ever but the difference is expanding to the margins to the right and left of the core I4 counties.

Schale doesn't address it specifically, but retirees in Volusia, Brevard, Pasco, Hernando, Citrus and The Villages counties neutralized huge urban turnouts for Democrats.

Let's be clear: there was no shellacking at the top of the ticket this year. However, to clear the margins we have to address these new (to Florida) elderly voters.

Or just wait for them to die, as Oprah would say.

[dcluley98]

Ahem. . . 
https://ritholtz.com/2018/11/how-to-change-someones-mind/

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

How is Malcom X a black eye on the Democratic Party and liberals when he wasn't a member of either party or ideology?

Funny how conservatives happily quote someone who they despise with every fiber of their being if the words support their agenda.

Your unprovable anecdote means absolutely nothing and has zero to do with the very real and documented problem of Republican sponsored voter suppression. In fact, all it shows is that you don't want to talk about it. I can see why. I would be embarrassed about it too if I was a Republican.

That story is a proven falsehood that is soundly and roundly debunked right here:

From Snopes:

"The claim originates from an interview with Obama published on 3 November 2016, in which millennial actress Gina Rodriguez asked the president about a number of issues facing young Latinos. Many of the outrage posts were written around a video in which the majority of the president’s response was edited out to give the misleading impression that Obama was urging undocumented immigrants to vote illegally:

In the full interview, it’s clear Obama is urging Latino citizens to vote in order to give voice to members of their community who are precluded from doing so by lack of citizenship, not urging non-citizens to vote illegally."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote

When one has to resort to right-wing propaganda and debunked falsehoods to make their point, they had no point to begin with and everything else they say is tainted and cannot be taken seriously. 

From "Right-wing Phony Debate Tactics 101": Rule #1 - When on the ropes, just deflect the issue by dragging out the old "MSM fake news" dodge. Doesn't prove anything but it looks better than saying nothing.

Fake polls in 2016? What fake polls?

Fake articles? What fake articles?

You must be confusing real news sources with conservative propaganda pushers like Fox News, Breitbart, Infowars, etc, etc. Because THEY are the purveyors of fake news, not the legitimate sources the right has spent decades demonizing for their own crooked, dishonest ends. You need look no further than the fake story you just referenced about the supposed Obama immigration comment as proof. Too funny that you'd talk about the MSM and fake news after pushing a fake right-wing propaganda story yourself. I'm not suggesting you lied on purpose, but you unwittingly at best, passed along a right-wing lie that was spoon fed to you by the same people who tell you that the mainstream media are the ones lying to you. You guys get lied to by the right-wing media like teenage girls in the back seat on prom night.

And they don't respect you in the morning either.

Malcom X died in 1965, over 53 years ago. The two major political parties in America, like society as a whole, were part of a vastly different world. Anything he said about anything is probably older than you are. To dredge up some cherry-picked comments from a long gone era only bespeaks the desperation of one who cannot defend his own ideology so he props it up using the words of others from ancient history. 

 

.

-I read those articles with my own two eyes.  If I foresaw that I would have to cite to them 2 years later to defend my stance about something that was obvious at the time (to non-liberals I guess), I would have bookmarked them.

-Why don’t you go outside and talk to people.  Seriously. And talk to some immigrants, and don’t just use the undocumented ones to bolster your talking points of the liberal agenda.  I have, and I do.  I’ve been overseas several times.  I’ve talked with Syrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Lebanese, Israelis, Brits, and Turks and they tell me what’s really going on in those countries; things that the MSM does not report on or rather gives their propaganda spin on.  So until you do that don’t come at me with your liberal Phony Debate Tactics 101 bologna.  I’m talking about real life, not spoon fed kool aid I keep hearing from all these ‘big government’ fanboys.

-I saw the fake polls on CNN.com as they came out; fake in that they oversampled Democratics to make it look like she was leading.  They published the science of their polls in small print on the same web page but people don’t bother to read the small print, just like they don’t bother to read full articles to see the retractions buried at the end of them.  It’s called a talking point; the media and politicians blurt them out and that’s all people remember...like...”Russia.”  It’s manipulative.  The only “real” poll was from the LA Times, oddly enough,  which showed Trump in the lead.  And how many times in the past year and a half has the MSM had to offer retractions or apologies for mis-stating the facts concerning Trump since he’s been in office?  A bunch.  Or are you going to deny this until I give you a citation quoting Andersen Cooper or Rachael Maddow directly? Enough already.

-Obama said what he did on live TV; Snopes’ spin is irrelevant, and your quoting of it is irrelevant.  I saw the debate.

-Why should conservatives dislike Malcom X?  He called it like it was about liberals, the very same people that created and promulgated urban ghettos that affect African Americans to this day.  Conservatives weren’t responsible for this.  And why shouldn’t I quote Malcom, because he exposes liberals for what they are?  I was born in the ‘60’s, it wasn’t that long ago.  I still listen to music from that era.  Should I stop listening to it because the context of that music is out of date?  Is it, though? No.  Same goes for movies and TV shows and even books.  That’s an irrelevant self serving argument.

-I don’t need Malcom X  to defend or bolster my ideology.  liberals in the classic sense are not the group using the label, “liberal.”  It’s the Left, rather, hiding and trying to make it’s views accepted as being centrist, while the centrists are being labeled as conservatives or the Right.  It’s an insidious trend.  That’s why there’s so many ex-pats in other countries; because of the sh!t show that’s going on in this one.  I know a few of them.

-To illustrate further by analogy: it’s like that kid who wants to be cool through association with the perceivably “cool kid” in school, all the while glorifying him to others like he’s some god or hero, when in the end, said kid has done nothing more than do the “cool kid’s” work for him and make him seem cooler than he actually is.  What’s his reward? Is he cool now as well? Well, said kid has no mind of his own; his only sense of identity or worth comes from his association with that “cool kid.”  And then you come to find out later that the “cool kid” is nothing more than a loser.  Now what? Don’t be that kid and do the “cool kid’s” work for him; don’t be that guy.  But getting this point across to a liberal is very tough because they are suckling on that governmental teet way too hard and don’t want to let go of it.  Same goes for some right wingers.

-My purpose isn’t to call out liberals; it’s to get people to snap out of some of this conditioning.  If you don’t want to acknowledge this and want to keep on this tit for tat thing, then so be it.  I can do that, but it’s really not productive, and I’m really gonna be late.

And on that note, Happy Thanksgiving!

[Dale]

13 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Ahem. . . 
https://ritholtz.com/2018/11/how-to-change-someones-mind/

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/

Because the left is always amenable to persuasion.

[Dale]

Democrats despise Trump because he opposes illegal immigration because he’s not Obama while doing it.

[JFW657]

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I read those articles with my own two eyes.  If I foresaw that I would have to cite to them 2 years later to defend my stance about something that was obvious at the time (to non-liberals I guess), I would have bookmarked them.

Well, that's a shame. Because if you can't source such a claim, it just isn't going to be believed and as such, you wasted your time posting it. You should try searching them out. If they were published, they will be archived somewhere.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Why don’t you go outside and talk to people.  Seriously. And talk to some immigrants, and don’t just use the undocumented ones to bolster your talking points of the liberal agenda.  I have, and I do.  I’ve been overseas several times.  I’ve talked with Syrians, Egyptians, Greeks, Lebanese, Israelis, Brits, and Turks and they tell me what’s really going on in those countries; things that the MSM does not report on or rather gives their propaganda spin on.  So until you do that don’t come at me with your liberal Phony Debate Tactics 101 bologna.  I’m talking about real life, not spoon fed kool aid I keep hearing from all these ‘big government’ fanboys.

Do you really think you're the only one who's travelled abroad and spoken to foreign citizens? I've been across the big water myself. Half my family on my mother's side are lifelong native German citizens. One of her nieces, my cousin, lives in Australia. I've met them personally and still communicate with them regularly. I've also spoken to plenty of other foreigners and I can tell you without hesitation that all the ones I've talked to see Trump as a joke and his xenophobic policies as dangerous. 

Trump is the biggest Kool Aid pusher of all time and his far right supporters are the Kool Aid junkies and addicts who keep him in business.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I saw the fake polls on CNN.com as they came out; fake in that they oversampled Democratics to make it look like she was leading.  They published the science of their polls in small print on the same web page but people don’t bother to read the small print, just like they don’t bother to read full articles to see the retractions buried at the end of them.  It’s called a talking point; the media and politicians blurt them out and that’s all people remember...like...”Russia.”  It’s manipulative.  The only “real” poll was from the LA Times, oddly enough,  which showed Trump in the lead.  And how many times in the past year and a half has the MSM had to offer retractions or apologies for mis-stating the facts concerning Trump since he’s been in office?  A bunch.  Or are you going to deny this until I give you a citation quoting Andersen Cooper or Rachael Maddow directly? Enough already.

The polls were not fake. On the contrary, they were as accurate as opinion polls can get. The only reason Trump won the EC was because of 77,000 votes across three upper Midwestern states (Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania). That is a hair's margin and well within the margin of error of any poll. Perhaps you don't understand how polls work, otherwise you wouldn't be making such claims. 

If the "MSM" issues an occasional retraction, that still puts them, in terms of honesty and integrity, light years ahead of the unapologetic and deliberate liars at right wing propaganda sources that conservatives get their news and opinions fed to them from, who have never once admitted any of their countless deliberate lies.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Obama said what he did on live TV; Snopes’ spin is irrelevant, and your quoting of it is irrelevant.  I saw the debate.

If Obama said that on live TV, there will be plenty of undoctored video of it. Show it to us or admit that you were either bamboozled or misunderstood what he said. I can tell you without the slightest bit of doubt that no politician, Obama or anyone else, given the storm of outrage they know they'd face for such a comment, would ever publicly encourage foreigners to enter this country illegally or tell them they could do so and not suffer any consequences. The very idea is absurd and speaks to the naivete, gullibility and paranoia of those who would believe he ever said such a thing. 

I posted a thorough and legitimate rebuttal that laid out all the dates, places, facts and used verbatim quotes. You chose to wave it off as "spin", but you've posted nothing to back it up, so until you do, the Snopes rebuttal stands and your claim remains just an empty, toothless denial.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Why should conservatives dislike Malcom X?  He called it like it was about liberals, the very same people that created and promulgated urban ghettos that affect African Americans to this day.  Conservatives weren’t responsible for this.  And why shouldn’t I quote Malcom, because he exposes liberals for what they are?  I was born in the ‘60’s, it wasn’t that long ago.  I still listen to music from that era.  Should I stop listening to it because the context of that music is out of date?  Is it, though? No.  Same goes for movies and TV shows and even books.  That’s an irrelevant self serving argument.

If you had actually ever read or listened to his comments, you'd know that MX was no fan of white conservatives either. He hated all white people equally, but held the liberals of 53 years ago in particular disdain because the social conditions of black people hadn't improved fast enough to suit his expectations. The right loves to push that lie about how liberals "created urban ghettos" when in fact, it was the redneck socially conservative bigots of the south who blacks ran away from to begin with. That in turn, is what caused the over-crowded ghettos of the Northeast and Midwest. The liberal left tried to do what they could to change things, but change comes slowly in America and there was stubborn opposition and a myriad of other very complex factors that came into play. 

To just claim "lib'ruls created ghettos" is a purely simpleton level of conjecture.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

-I don’t need Malcom X  to defend or bolster my ideology.  liberals in the classic sense are not the group using the label, “liberal.”  It’s the Left, rather, hiding and trying to make it’s views accepted as being centrist, while the centrists are being labeled as conservatives or the Right.  It’s an insidious trend.  That’s why there’s so many ex-pats in other countries; because of the sh!t show that’s going on in this one.  I know a few of them.

Too funny. You try to defend and bolster your ideology by quoting Malcom X, then claim that you don't need him to defend and bolster your ideology. LOL.

Certainly, there are extremist liberals on the far left and extremist conservatives on the far right. From where I sit, it looks like more conservatives lean toward extremism than liberals do. There is one thing I do know - and all the other nit-picking minutiae you've tossed around here is beside the point that all one needs to understand about left vs right is this... 

....every skinhead, neo-Nazi, white supremacist, white nationalist, KKK member, Charlottesville torch carrier and paramilitary, anti-gubmint militia gun nut in the US is on the political right. And many (if not most) of them are Trump supporters. Even those of them who are not wildly enthusiastic about Trump, if given the choice, would opt for Trump over Obama or Clinton without hesitation 100% of the time. 

Just that fact alone is enough to tell me there is something not quite right about modern conservatism. 

Understand - I am not suggesting that all conservatives are on par with them. But they are all on the same side of the fence and as such, to be a conservative, you have to share certain basic, common values.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

To illustrate further by analogy: it’s like that kid who wants to be cool through association with the perceivably “cool kid” in school, all the while glorifying him to others like he’s some god or hero, when in the end, said kid has done nothing more than do the “cool kid’s” work for him and make him seem cooler than he actually is.  What’s his reward? Is he cool now as well? Well, said kid has no mind of his own; his only sense of identity or worth comes from his association with that “cool kid.”  And then you come to find out later that the “cool kid” is nothing more than a loser.  Now what? Don’t be that kid and do the “cool kid’s” work for him; don’t be that guy.  But getting this point across to a liberal is very tough because they are suckling on that governmental teet way too hard and don’t want to let go of it.  Same goes for some right wingers.

All I can say to that, is that I left high school behind when I graduated and I moved on with my life, so I have no high school popularity issues. I don't know what else to tell you.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

My purpose isn’t to call out liberals; it’s to get people to snap out of some of this conditioning.  If you don’t want to acknowledge this and want to keep on this tit for tat thing, then so be it.  I can do that, but it’s really not productive, and I’m really gonna be late.

You aren't snapping anyone out of anything. All you've done is reinforce to me why I'll never vote for a Republican for anything.

8 hours ago, jrs2 said:

And on that note, Happy Thanksgiving!

6 hours ago, Dale said:

Democrats despise Trump because he opposes illegal immigration because he’s not Obama while doing it.

Republicans love Trump because he lends an air of false legitimacy to their bigotry.

[Dale]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Well, that's a shame. Because if you can't source such a claim, it just isn't going to be believed and as such, you wasted your time posting it. You should try searching them out. If they were published, they will be archived somewhere.

Do you really think you're the only one who's travelled abroad and spoken to foreign citizens? I've been across the big water myself. Half my family on my mother's side are lifelong native German citizens. One of her nieces, my cousin, lives in Australia. I've met them personally and still communicate with them regularly. I've also spoken to plenty of other foreigners and I can tell you without hesitation that all the ones I've talked to see Trump as a joke and his xenophobic policies as dangerous. 

Trump is the biggest Kool Aid pusher of all time and his far right supporters are the Kool Aid junkies and addicts who keep him in business.

The polls were not fake. On the contrary, they were as accurate as opinion polls can get. The only reason Trump won the EC was because of 77,000 votes across three upper Midwestern states (Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania). That is a hair's margin and well within the margin of error of any poll. Perhaps you don't understand how polls work, otherwise you wouldn't be making such claims. 

If the "MSM" issues an occasional retraction, that still puts them, in terms of honesty and integrity, light years ahead of the unapologetic and deliberate liars at right wing propaganda sources that conservatives get their news and opinions fed to them from, who have never once admitted any of their countless deliberate lies.

If Obama said that on live TV, there will be plenty of undoctored video of it. Show it to us or admit that you were either bamboozled or misunderstood what he said. I can tell you without the slightest bit of doubt that no politician, Obama or anyone else, given the storm of outrage they know they'd face for such a comment, would ever publicly encourage foreigners to enter this country illegally or tell them they could do so and not suffer any consequences. The very idea is absurd and speaks to the naivete, gullibility and paranoia of those who would believe he ever said such a thing. 

I posted a thorough and legitimate rebuttal that laid out all the dates, places, facts and used verbatim quotes. You chose to wave it off as "spin", but you've posted nothing to back it up, so until you do, the Snopes rebuttal stands and your claim remains just an empty, toothless denial.

If you had actually ever read or listened to his comments, you'd know that MX was no fan of white conservatives either. He hated all white people equally, but held the liberals of 53 years ago in particular disdain because the social conditions of black people hadn't improved fast enough to suit his expectations. The right loves to push that lie about how liberals "created urban ghettos" when in fact, it was the redneck socially conservative bigots of the south who blacks ran away from to begin with. That in turn, is what caused the over-crowded ghettos of the Northeast and Midwest. The liberal left tried to do what they could to change things, but change comes slowly in America and there was stubborn opposition and a myriad of other very complex factors that came into play. 

To just claim "lib'ruls created ghettos" is a purely simpleton level of conjecture.

Too funny. You try to defend and bolster your ideology by quoting Malcom X, then claim that you don't need him to defend and bolster your ideology. LOL.

Certainly, there are extremist liberals on the far left and extremist conservatives on the far right. From where I sit, it looks like more conservatives lean toward extremism than liberals do. There is one thing I do know - and all the other nit-picking minutiae you've tossed around here is beside the point that all one needs to understand about left vs right is this... 

....every skinhead, neo-Nazi, white supremacist, white nationalist, KKK member, Charlottesville torch carrier and paramilitary, anti-gubmint militia gun nut in the US is on the political right. And many (if not most) of them are Trump supporters. Even those of them who are not wildly enthusiastic about Trump, if given the choice, would opt for Trump over Obama or Clinton without hesitation 100% of the time. 

Just that fact alone is enough to tell me there is something not quite right about modern conservatism. 

Understand - I am not suggesting that all conservatives are on par with them. But they are all on the same side of the fence and as such, to be a conservative, you have to share certain basic, common values.

All I can say to that, is that I left high school behind when I graduated and I moved on with my life, so I have no high school popularity issues. I don't know what else to tell you.

You aren't snapping anyone out of anything. All you've done is reinforce to me why I'll never vote for a Republican for anything.

Republicans love Trump because he lends an air of false legitimacy to their bigotry.

Because we know you decried Obama’s bigotry for checking immigration and deporting more people than any other president.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Because we know you decried Obama’s bigotry for checking immigration and deporting more people than any other president.

No I never did that because Obama isn't a bigot. 

Doing his job by deporting undocumented immigrants is not bigotry.

Demonizing and dehumanizing illegal immigrants as rapists, drug dealers and gangsters just because it's an effectivec campaign gimmick that fires up a bunch of angry people who's vote you want, is bigotry.

Calling the US military to the border and issuing orders to use deadly force against unarmed people including women and children is bigotry.

One of the most prime examples of conservative hypocrisy is how even though Obama was tougher on deporting illegal immigrants than previous Presidents, the right still universally despised him even though ending illegal immigrantion is one of their top issues. 

Had Obama been a white Republican, his actions on illegal immigration alone would have made him a hero in their eyes.

[Dale]

On 11/23/2018 at 12:38 AM, JFW657 said:

No I never did that because Obama isn't a bigot. 

Doing his job by deporting undocumented immigrants is not bigotry.

Demonizing and dehumanizing illegal immigrants as rapists, drug dealers and gangsters just because it's an effectivec campaign gimmick that fires up a bunch of angry people who's vote you want, is bigotry.

Calling the US military to the border and issuing orders to use deadly force against unarmed people including women and children is bigotry.

One of the most prime examples of conservative hypocrisy is how even though Obama was tougher on deporting illegal immigrants than previous Presidents, the right still universally despised him even though ending illegal immigrantion is one of their top issues. 

Had Obama been a white Republican, his actions on illegal immigration alone would have made him a hero in their eyes.

Hillary and other leading Democrats made disparaging remarks about Mexicans before Trump didn’t say that all Mexicans were rapists.

Question: why not Trump ? Why your bigots and xenophobia ?

[Dale]

Interesting analysis on midterms: remember when 400,000 Puerto Rican refugees was supposed to have been a boon for the Democrats ? Well, DeSantis and Scott pulled 42% of the Puerto Rican vote and nearly half of all Hispanics.

Stunningly, DeSantis got 18% of the black female vote. Maybe it was school choice. Maybe it was blacks tired of Gillum’s race-baiting. 

2020: will Democrats be vesting their hopes in ex-convicts ?

[aent]

9 hours ago, Dale said:

Interesting analysis on midterms: remember when 400,000 Puerto Rican refugees was supposed to have been a boon for the Democrats ? Well, DeSantis and Scott pulled 42% of the Puerto Rican vote and nearly half of all Hispanics.

Stunningly, DeSantis got 18% of the black female vote. Maybe it was school choice. Maybe it was blacks tired of Gillum’s race-baiting. 

2020: will Democrats be vesting their hopes in ex-convicts ?

Just curious, how do they determine that? Exit polls? I don't believe ballots can be tied back to a race like party registrations cann.

[jrs2]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:38 AM, JFW657 said:

No I never did that because Obama isn't a bigot. 

Doing his job by deporting undocumented immigrants is not bigotry.

Demonizing and dehumanizing illegal immigrants as rapists, drug dealers and gangsters just because it's an effectivec campaign gimmick that fires up a bunch of angry people who's vote you want, is bigotry.

Calling the US military to the border and issuing orders to use deadly force against unarmed people including women and children is bigotry.

One of the most prime examples of conservative hypocrisy is how even though Obama was tougher on deporting illegal immigrants than previous Presidents, the right still universally despised him even though ending illegal immigrantion is one of their top issues. 

Had Obama been a white Republican, his actions on illegal immigration alone would have made him a hero in their eyes.

"Demonizing and dehumanizing illegal immigrants as rapists, drug dealers and gangsters..."  Amazing, simply amazing...  So, MS13 doesn't actually exist now, right? 

Obama: What did it for me was using children as human propaganda shields on national TV to push gun control, or are you going to deny this ( like everything else I mentioned in prior posts) in your continued failed attempts at gaslighting? 

[Dale]

This just in: Obama frequently used tear gas on migrants at the border. But at least he wasn’t Trump while doing it.

[jrs2]

50 minutes ago, Dale said:

This just in: Obama frequently used tear gas on migrants at the border. But at least he wasn’t Trump while doing it.

Maybe I got it all wrong after all.  They both f*ck you, except one of them does it with a smile on their face.

[Dale]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Maybe I got it all wrong after all.  They both f*ck you, except one of them does it with a smile on their face.

I don’t think anyone can f*ck you like a voter can. The officials they empower just provide them cover.

[spenser1058]

A Hillsborough County commissioner is suing to invalidate the county’s recently passed transit tax (it won with 57% approval.) Wanna guess which party he’s from..? I knew you could!

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/carlton-dont-worry-silly-citizens-who-voted-to-improve-transportation-commissioner-stacy-sour-grapes-white-knows-best-20181206/

From The St. Pete Times 

[jrs2]

20 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

A Hillsborough County commissioner is suing to invalidate the county’s recently passed transit tax (it won with 57% approval.) Wanna guess which party he’s from..? I knew you could!

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/carlton-dont-worry-silly-citizens-who-voted-to-improve-transportation-commissioner-stacy-sour-grapes-white-knows-best-20181206/

From The St. Pete Times 

guess; bet; do oddsmakers follow this stuff?  I buddy is totally proficient in sportsbook betting.  They should make a line on politics-related stuff.  Maybe they can't b/c of voting, in that, if everyone places a bet, they literally control the outcome of the election (barring fraud) versus in a game where two teams play with no interference (presumably) from any outside influences...