LOCAL and Florida Politics

[spenser1058]

58 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Thank goodness Florida's minimum wage is going up rapidly to $15/hr and there's no state income tax. I'm sure that's helping a lot of families.

Well, the Tallahassee Idiots are now trying to implement a subminimum wage to get around things. They keep passing tax cuts for billionaires and corporations (but yet we have relatively few Fortune 500 headquarters given we’re the third largest state) but God forbid the citizens make a living wage. Meanwhile, we have more toll roads and much worse transit than most of the other large states. We won’t even get into health care and education.

[spenser1058]

Volusia County is looking at trying again to raise its sales tax, looking at a vote in 2024.

An effort in 2019 was defeated with 55% against. One of the problems with the previous effort was a perception too much of the money would have gone to new roads encouraging sprawl rather than to fix existing roads. Many think the real estate industrial complex tried (as usual), with help from elected officials, to co-opt the increased funds for their own profit.

This time, there’s an effort to devise a grassroots effort to show citizens how it would improve their lives instead of lining the pockets of developers. Stay tuned.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2021/11/26/volusia-county-could-soon-be-in-the-midst-of-a-new-sales-tax-campaign/8728339002/

From The News Journal 

Here in Orange County, where we’ve also got a sales tax election coming up in 2022, the 2019 experience in Volusia is something to keep in mind as the tourism industry attempts to direct all the benefits to the southwest quadrant of OC.
 

Edited November 26, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

A blast from the past is BAAACK: much unloved former Orlando city commissioner Vickie Vargo (she was defeated for reelection by then-newcomer Robert Stuart back in the Pleistocene era)is suing the city and the current RoseArts developers over the closure of the Rosemont golf course.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orlando-rosearts-suit-20211127-hj7pkj7u3jgp7m5ka4nccndbrm-story.html

From The Sentinel 

I never had much use for Vickie on city council but she’s always entertaining. This should be fun.
 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

The Sentinel suggests local tourism leaders put up or shut up on their undying concern for their workers:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/editorials/os-op-florida-tourist-tax-roads-buses-transportation-20211129-s3vv2lhf45ekrex6eh7455c6mm-story.html

[blt23]

On 11/26/2021 at 10:33 AM, spenser1058 said:

Volusia County is looking at trying again to raise its sales tax, looking at a vote in 2024.

An effort in 2019 was defeated with 55% against. One of the problems with the previous effort was a perception too much of the money would have gone to new roads encouraging sprawl rather than to fix existing roads. Many think the real estate industrial complex tried (as usual), with help from elected officials, to co-opt the increased funds for their own profit.

This time, there’s an effort to devise a grassroots effort to show citizens how it would improve their lives instead of lining the pockets of developers. Stay tuned.

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2021/11/26/volusia-county-could-soon-be-in-the-midst-of-a-new-sales-tax-campaign/8728339002/

From The News Journal 

Here in Orange County, where we’ve also got a sales tax election coming up in 2022, the 2019 experience in Volusia is something to keep in mind as the tourism industry attempts to direct all the benefits to the southwest quadrant of OC.
 

I'm not expecting to love Orange County's project list, but I do get the sense that Mayor Demings understands the political playbook for getting these things passed so I'm cautiously optimistic that he can get it done in fall 2022. I don't see all of the benefits going to the southwest portion of the county but I will be curious to hear the tourism industry's position on the measure given the fight over Brightline's route to Tampa and corresponding Sunrail implications. 

[spenser1058]

It just escapes me why the Republicans keep giving us idiots like Randy Fine (Brevard)and Anthony Sabatini (Lake). C’mon, guys, y’all can do better:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-prem-op-florida-false-facemask-report-scott-maxwell-20211201-cegjdzyq7bhwzayb3n7vj2a634-story.html

From The Sentinel 
 

[spenser1058]

Sanity breaks out in Orange County:

“Mayor Demings unsure if $605 million expansion of convention center will ever resume”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-tdt-october-20211203-cbhu3kj3kzfavkso3gyhvafdgi-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Thank you, Mayor Demings!
 

Edited December 3, 2021 by spenser1058

[orange87]

DeSantis is giving Trump a run for his money on who is the bigger fascist.

DeSantis proposes a new civilian military force in Florida that he would control

Article: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/politics/florida-state-guard-desantis/index.html

[JFW657]

14 hours ago, orange87 said:

DeSantis is giving Trump a run for his money on who is the bigger fascist.

DeSantis proposes a new civilian military force in Florida that he would control

Article: https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/politics/florida-state-guard-desantis/index.html

I am no fan or supporter of DeSantis, but as long as he can't abuse his authority by deploying them improperly, I don't see the harm in it.

After a natural disaster or during civil unrest, the more trained personel there are to assist the authorities, the better, IMO.

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I am no fan or supporter of DeSantis, but as long as he can't abuse his authority by deploying them improperly, I don't see the harm in it.

After a natural disaster or during civil unrest, the more trained personel there are to assist the authorities, the better, IMO.

I’d normally agree with you but right now there are no checks and balances if he tries to go authoritarian (which he’s done several times in his term). The legislature and state courts are wholly owned subsidiaries of DeSantis, Inc. As a result, we’d have to pray any abuses go to federal court and we don’t get a MAGA judge. DoJ might be able to help but only if they have jurisdiction in the matter.

If it were a Republican like Jeb! or Martinez, it would be fine. With DeSantis or Scott, I’d be holding my breath.

[jack]

On 12/3/2021 at 5:56 PM, spenser1058 said:

Sanity breaks out in Orange County:

“Mayor Demings unsure if $605 million expansion of convention center will ever resume”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-tdt-october-20211203-cbhu3kj3kzfavkso3gyhvafdgi-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Thank you, Mayor Demings!
 

So no discussion of should they do the expansion. Only about revenue collections. 

[spenser1058]

39 minutes ago, jack said:

So no discussion of should they do the expansion. Only about revenue collections. 

I think he’s threading the needle between the base and the industry folks (he was speaking to the latter). It will be interesting to see how it goes - it will say a lot about local politics whichever way it happens .

Edited December 6, 2021 by spenser1058

[orange87]

On 12/3/2021 at 5:56 PM, spenser1058 said:

Sanity breaks out in Orange County:

“Mayor Demings unsure if $605 million expansion of convention center will ever resume”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-orange-tdt-october-20211203-cbhu3kj3kzfavkso3gyhvafdgi-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Thank you, Mayor Demings!

We have the opposite problem here in CT. The XL Center (Hartford Civic Center) smack dab in the center of our capital city's downtown has needed a major renovation for years and most of our lawmakers don't think it's worth the money. It's not an awful arena,  but it's quite dated. Sounds like our lawmakers are more fiscally conservative than the ones in OC.

[spenser1058]

Only two other US cities have selected to build white elephants the size of ours, Chicago and Las Vegas. Neither of them have a reputation as well-run cities. Most others long ago realized that such gargantuan facilities never pass the cost-benefit test.

In any event, if the Orlando area had no other glaring issues to address, then it might be fine.

However, in an economy that’s 50 of 50 because of our overreliance on this industry, we have problems with transit getting their employees to work. For that matter, we also have problems getting conventioneers around. Not to mention, the folks working in the industry can’t afford to live here.

I could go on but it’s easy to see there are things more pressing than expanding a facility that already sits empty much of the time.

Other areas IN FLORIDA have managed to get around the artificial constraints imposed by the Legislature. Why haven’t we? Because the local industry used our local politicians to make it so we couldn’t.

Finally, one of our legislators who sees the folly in this is pushing back. We’ve spent enough on this boondoggle for the foreseeable future.

Edited December 6, 2021 by spenser1058

[aent]

In pre-covid times, the convention center paid for itself with its fees and associated hotel and rental car taxes. There's nothing good about this getting cancelled.

[jack]

21 hours ago, aent said:

In pre-covid times, the convention center paid for itself with its fees and associated hotel and rental car taxes. There's nothing good about this getting cancelled.

Yes for operations, but TDT pays for the debt service. That behemoth could never pay its way completely. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by jack

[aent]

55 minutes ago, jack said:

Yes for operations, but TDT pays for the debt service. That behemoth could never pays its way completely. 

The TDT is the hotel tax, my understanding is the added contributions to the TDT as a result of that center hosting conventions and the resulting visitors to Orlando staying in hotels and renting vehicles covers the debt service. Parking and rental fees pays operational cost. Presumably, many people are visiting Orlando, renting cars and hotels, directly for the conventions. I know that was the case for many of the large conventions I've been to. Infact, my former employer maintained a business location here in Orlando with numerous high wage jobs specifically because they wanted to have a location near the convention center.

[aent]

The Democrats are without a doubt committing voter fraud, at least locally! A judge has ordered an Eatonville election to be overturned and the Democrat kicked out of office and replaced with the Republican after proof of enough votes that were illegally cast or procured. Unfortunately, the residents of Eatonville have to deal with 2 years of bad decisions by an illegal Democrat in power.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/10/30/judge-overturns-eatonville-election-due-to-illegal-votes/

Edited December 7, 2021 by aent

[jack]

1 hour ago, aent said:

The TDT is the hotel tax, my understanding is the added contributions to the TDT as a result of that center hosting conventions and the resulting visitors to Orlando staying in hotels and renting vehicles covers the debt service. Parking and rental fees pays operational cost. Presumably, many people are visiting Orlando, renting cars and hotels, directly for the conventions. I know that was the case for many of the large conventions I've been to. Infact, my former employer maintained a business location here in Orlando with numerous high wage jobs specifically because they wanted to have a location near the convention center.

That is correct but it shares a pool of money produced by taxes on hotel rooms. I'm sure it is the same arrangement in Vegas and Chicago.

I'm not going as far as Spencer but what is the ROI on this expansion? Will we put more heads in beds? Is there demand for a larger convention center? 

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, jack said:

That is correct but it shares a pool of money produced by taxes on hotel rooms. I'm sure it is the same arrangement in Vegas and Chicago.

I'm not going as far as Spencer but what is the ROI on this expansion? Will we put more heads in beds? Is there demand for a larger convention center? 

The thing is, conventions are not trending. This was one of those things everyone knew was coming due to the improvement of technology for online meetings but it took the pandemic for it to kick in.

Are conventions going away? Nope. But they’re going to attract fewer people. @klstoreymade reference to this in a recent Orlando Weekly story of the area’s move away from budget motels and that the new upscale hotels are including less meeting space.

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2021/11/17/the-age-of-budget-hotels-near-walt-disney-world-is-over-as-luxury-resorts-continue-to-pop-up-around-the-park

Disney is moving away from that model as well, both here and in California.

Yet, we have the same old crowd throwing money at a white elephant that’s as large as it ever needs to be, especially when we have more pressing needs. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

“University of Texas at San Antonio professor Heywood Sanders says the four largest centers in America — in Orlando, Chicago, Las Vegas and Atlanta — have all expanded in recent years and yet collectively saw the same number of visitors they saw 20 years earlier.”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-prem-op-demings-nixes-convention-center-expansion-scott-maxwell-20211207-gapvh5x2qzfhbhf2zcuxja67ty-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Edited December 7, 2021 by spenser1058

[aent]

8 hours ago, jack said:

That is correct but it shares a pool of money produced by taxes on hotel rooms. I'm sure it is the same arrangement in Vegas and Chicago.

I'm not going as far as Spencer but what is the ROI on this expansion? Will we put more heads in beds? Is there demand for a larger convention center? 

The issue is with Vegas expanding their convention center, the large conventions are going to want to go there instead of Orlando. Orlando recently lost the International Builders Show's contract renewal to moving the show to Vegas full time (it used to be in Orlando 50% of the time, 50% Vegas) precisely because of the lack of expansion that this called for (more specialized spaces). That show has an estimated economic impact of $97 million per year, so if Orlando was able to get the deal Vegas got, it would have had the economic impact of this expansion after just 6 years, and thats just for one show (admittedly, one of the biggest). So while the expansion probably won't put a significant number of additional heads in beds, it will prevent the reduction of heads in beds if it doesn't happen.

Another big issue is the big business conventions coincide exactly with the tourist dead season, so it keeps the hotels going with higher average occupancy rates.

 

[jack]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

“University of Texas at San Antonio professor Heywood Sanders says the four largest centers in America — in Orlando, Chicago, Las Vegas and Atlanta — have all expanded in recent years and yet collectively saw the same number of visitors they saw 20 years earlier.”

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-prem-op-demings-nixes-convention-center-expansion-scott-maxwell-20211207-gapvh5x2qzfhbhf2zcuxja67ty-story.html

From The Sentinel 

If that is true, these centers are probably sitting emptier more so than 20 years ago but the shows they do get are larger. That is intriguing as it means the impact of losing one of these shows are tremendous. 

[prahaboheme]

On 12/7/2021 at 1:10 PM, aent said:

The Democrats are without a doubt committing voter fraud, at least locally! A judge has ordered an Eatonville election to be overturned and the Democrat kicked out of office and replaced with the Republican after proof of enough votes that were illegally cast or procured. Unfortunately, the residents of Eatonville have to deal with 2 years of bad decisions by an illegal Democrat in power.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/10/30/judge-overturns-eatonville-election-due-to-illegal-votes/

Are you really equating a single event in Eatonville  (sketchy example mind you) to an entire movement by Republicans to steal elections? 

[spenser1058]

I guess we could have gone… it turns out just 5400 tickets were sold to the Trump - O’Reilly “History Tour” at the Am. 

6200 went through the turnstiles, which seems to suggest 800 got in free.

According to the Sentinel, apparently that was less than half of capacity.

Oh, well- maybe next year.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-trump-amway-center-tickets-20211216-2j7nmamdzfbnfhlr5i57qdferq-story.html