LOCAL and Florida Politics

[aent]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

According to all accounts, the taxpayers of Orange County will be on the hook for $130 million in lost tax revenue which will likely result in a 20 - 25% property tax increase for all homeowners.

Chances are, from what I've heard reported, some kind f deal will be worked out.  

Any sources that we'd lose any tax revenue? All accounts I've seen are tax revenue will go up. Expenses will go up as well, as the debt service payments will also transfer to the county, but the whole point of this was to get Disney to pay more taxes.

I've seen the claims that we'll need a 20-25% property tax increase, but thats only if we don't monetize any of the assets we get from Reedy Creek, and things like the power plants, solar panels, and parking lots should be super easy to monetize, or at the very least sell to the highest bidder to recoup those bonds.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, aent said:

Any sources that we'd lose any tax revenue? All accounts I've seen are tax revenue will go up. Expenses will go up as well, as the debt service payments will also transfer to the county, but the whole point of this was to get Disney to pay more taxes.

I've seen the claims that we'll need a 20-25% property tax increase, but thats only if we don't monetize any of the assets we get from Reedy Creek, and things like the power plants, solar panels, and parking lots should be super easy to monetize, or at the very least sell to the highest bidder to recoup those bonds.

This article says $105 million. Local news reported $130 million possibly more.

This article also talks about $1 billion in bond debt.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/disney-special-district-florida-taxpayers-could-face-a-1-billion-debt-bomb-if-dissolved.html

 

Quote

 

To fund the government services of Reedy Creek, Disney effectively taxes itself. While the precise tax flows of Reedy Creek are unclear, Scott Randolph, the tax collector for Orange County, said the Reedy Creek district collects roughly $105 million annually in general revenue.

 

On top of the $105 million, Disney also pays local property taxes. Public records show Disney is the largest taxpayer in central Florida, paying over $280 million in property taxes to the counties between 2015 and 2020.

If the special district is dissolved, Orange and Osceola counties would have to provide the local services currently provided by Reedy Creek. And, the $105 million in revenue would disappear, meaning county and local taxpayers would be on the hook for part or all of the added costs.

“If you dissolved Reedy Creek, that $105 million in revenue literally goes away, it doesn’t get transferred,” Randolph said.

The reason: Reedy Creek is what’s known as an “independent tax district” meaning the tax revenues it generates are in addition to its local tax obligations, rather than a replacement of them. If the district is eliminated, the tax payments to Orange and Osceola counties would not increase, Randolph said.

 

 

[aent]

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

This article says $105 million. Local news reported $130 million possibly more.

This article also talks about $1 billion in bond debt.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/disney-special-district-florida-taxpayers-could-face-a-1-billion-debt-bomb-if-dissolved.html

 

 

The article also says they can just create a new taxing district to recover most of that. They also said they intend to do that. It also seems likely that Disney would either need to purchase the land that their solar panels and parking lots sit on, or start paying rent, or the income from those assets needs to replace the lost tax revenue.  The entire point of this, from everyone who passed it, is to make Disney pay their fair share and by the same rules as everyone else. They didn't overlook the core philosophy of the bill.

[spenser1058]

Mayor Demings makes the case for the penny to improve transit and roads in the Sentinel:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/guest-commentary/os-op-jerry-demings-transportation-sales-tax-initiative-20220424-nu44i3t3ljeqhbe7citqjmumyy-story.html

OC Commissioners scheduled to vote Tuesday whether it goes in the ballot. Call or email your commissioner tomorrow to let them know how important this is!

Remember, it’s a good deal since tourists pay over half the cost. Let’s Charge On!
 

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, aent said:

The article also says they can just create a new taxing district to recover most of that. They also said they intend to do that. It also seems likely that Disney would either need to purchase the land that their solar panels and parking lots sit on, or start paying rent, or the income from those assets needs to replace the lost tax revenue.  The entire point of this, from everyone who passed it, is to make Disney pay their fair share and by the same rules as everyone else. They didn't overlook the core philosophy of the bill.

Well, there are too many unknowns to make pronouncements yet, positive or negative.

Time will tell and then we'll see. Probably be a mixed bag.

But as it stands now, the one thing I do know, is that DeSantis is a pugnacious, sawed-off, chubby little runt bully who uses his office to carry out vendettas against his opponents and those who've offended him, while pandering for votes to his rabid, angry, disaffected base. 

As a governor, he's like Trump... an embarrassment and a POS.   

[jack]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:57 PM, aent said:

Regardless of what made this get noticed, the simple fact is the right thing is happening: democrats used to scream about big corporations paying their fair share and not evading taxes. This issue brought to light that Disney has been doing just that, and they're proposing no other punishment to Disney other then making them pay their fair share, what everyone else in the country has to pay. 

It looks like Reedy Creek owns many of Disney's parking lots and garages, likely as a tax evasion method. I have to pay property taxes on the parking lot I own, why doesn't Disney? Well, it looks like now the ownership should turn over to Orange County, I hope Orange County charges some nice parking fees at Disney so we don't "need" a 1% sales tax hike. I'd definetely pick a $10-20/day parking fee at Disney Springs over a 1% sales tax hike

Who decides what is fair? How are they evading taxes? I hear a lot about fairness with Disney with no actual data to back it up. 

Which garages are owned by RCID? If it is Disney Springs, Disney does not charge anything. I suspect any parking lots owned by the district are free. So now the County will take over the ownership with no revenue. Congratulations to us all! 

Edited April 25, 2022 by jack

[jack]

On 4/23/2022 at 8:22 PM, aent said:

Any sources that we'd lose any tax revenue? All accounts I've seen are tax revenue will go up. Expenses will go up as well, as the debt service payments will also transfer to the county, but the whole point of this was to get Disney to pay more taxes.

I've seen the claims that we'll need a 20-25% property tax increase, but thats only if we don't monetize any of the assets we get from Reedy Creek, and things like the power plants, solar panels, and parking lots should be super easy to monetize, or at the very least sell to the highest bidder to recoup those bonds.

For all we know, there could be covenants that state those assets need to be free. 

How do you get them to pay more taxes w/o impacting the entire county? They already pay the required rate by law. You can't just raise property taxes on one owner. 

21 hours ago, aent said:

The article also says they can just create a new taxing district to recover most of that. They also said they intend to do that. It also seems likely that Disney would either need to purchase the land that their solar panels and parking lots sit on, or start paying rent, or the income from those assets needs to replace the lost tax revenue.  The entire point of this, from everyone who passed it, is to make Disney pay their fair share and by the same rules as everyone else. They didn't overlook the core philosophy of the bill.

If this does not get overturned, the counties will just recreate what the state took away and nothing will change. 

If you want Disney to be the same as everyone else, we would see the 2k special districts in the state rescinded as well. 

[jack]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:27 PM, orange87 said:

I agree that kindergarteners shouldn't be taught about being transgender. However, I disagree with punishing Disney for simply having an opinion on the issue. DeSantis isn't even governing anymore. He's just using his position of power to repeatedly try to "own the libs" and do publicity stunts.

I don't necessarily disagree but a good way to stop it is to fire the teachers. No law needed, but you can't fundraise off of that. 

[jrs2]

nevermind...you guys covered it

Edited April 25, 2022 by jrs2

[jrs2]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:07 PM, aent said:

The article also says they can just create a new taxing district to recover most of that. They also said they intend to do that. It also seems likely that Disney would either need to purchase the land that their solar panels and parking lots sit on, or start paying rent, or the income from those assets needs to replace the lost tax revenue.  The entire point of this, from everyone who passed it, is to make Disney pay their fair share and by the same rules as everyone else. They didn't overlook the core philosophy of the bill.

I thought Disney owned all of that land; parking lots, solar panels, etc.

[jack]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

I thought Disney owned all of that land; parking lots, solar panels, etc.

Infrastructure is owned by the district. Other items may be as well like solar panels, etc. Infrastructure would be transferred to the County. The larger question is for infrastructure that the County normally does not manage. 

Does Disney provide its own power? Who would take control of that? The County? What do they know about being a power provider. They could turn around and sell it back to Disney and use the proceeds to pay down the district's debt. 

[nite owℓ]

7 hours ago, jack said:

If you want Disney to be the same as everyone else, we would see the 2k special districts in the state rescinded as well. 

Apparently The Villages will retain it's special district because it was created under Chapter 190. Disney and 4 other districts were formed under Chapter 189:

 •Hamilton County Development Authority

• East Point Water and Sewer District (Franklin County)

• Bradford County Development Authority

• Reedy Creek Improvement District aka Disney (Orange and Osceola Counties)

• Sunshine Drainage District (Broward County)

https://www.villages-news.com/2022/04/21/the-villages-district-office-issues-statement-indicating-its-not-part-of-desantis-aim-at-disney/

[spenser1058]

To all our Republicans - I sure hope you’re glad this state rep from Brevard is a leading spokesmen for your party:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/scott-maxwell-commentary/os-op-randy-fine-threatens-special-olympics-florida-scott-maxwell-20220426-nkeh64a5brenbascmtec75wamq-story.html

From The Sentinel

Please note that not a single Republican has called him on his behavior. Decency has taken a holiday in Florida’s GOP.
 

[aent]

On 4/25/2022 at 10:35 AM, jack said:

For all we know, there could be covenants that state those assets need to be free. 

How do you get them to pay more taxes w/o impacting the entire county? They already pay the required rate by law. You can't just raise property taxes on one owner. 

If this does not get overturned, the counties will just recreate what the state took away and nothing will change. 

If you want Disney to be the same as everyone else, we would see the 2k special districts in the state rescinded as well. 

First off, there county rates will go up, as they don't pay the county rates for items provided by RCID, such as fire protection. Then the county can lease back the RCID stuff to Disney or sell the rights to operate those services at a profit to the county. This isn't rocket science, this is actually literally what the initial plan was to begin with, if you would just listen to DeSantis. There is no requirement those garages remain free either, those rules can be changed at will if Disney did create them before.

[jack]

56 minutes ago, aent said:

First off, there county rates will go up, as they don't pay the county rates for items provided by RCID, such as fire protection. Then the county can lease back the RCID stuff to Disney or sell the rights to operate those services at a profit to the county. This isn't rocket science, this is actually literally what the initial plan was to begin with, if you would just listen to DeSantis. There is no requirement those garages remain free either, those rules can be changed at will if Disney did create them before.

That is not exactly right. If you are in unincorporated OC, you do pay for fire service separately from the general county tax. Roads, sidewalks etc, are paid from the general county tax. Same with the waterways, pest control, etc. These are all covered by the district. 

This is complicated. Especially when done in such a quick fashion. If this was properly debated, we would know if anyone has put any thought into. 

This is Seaword's tax bill/rate 

Taxing Authority	Assd Value	Exemption	Tax Value	Millage Rate	%	Taxes	Tax Breakdown
Public Schools: By State Law (Rle)	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	3.4890	-3.3%	$580,970.00	21%
Public Schools: By Local Board	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	3.2480	0.0%	$540,839.94	19%
General County	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	4.4347	0.0%	$738,443.00	26%
Unincorporated County Fire	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	2.2437	0.0%	$373,609.16	13%
Unincorporated Taxing District	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	1.8043	0.0%	$300,442.56	11%
Library - Operating Budget	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.3748	0.0%	$62,409.73	2%
South Florida Water Management District	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.1061	-3.8%	$17,667.22	1%
South Florida Wmd Okeechobee Basin	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.1146	-3.9%	$19,082.59	1%
South Florida Wmd Everglades Const	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.0365	-3.9%	$6,077.79	0%
International Drive Master Transit And Improvement	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.2334	0.0%	$38,864.54	1%
International Drive Bus Service	$166,514,756	$0	$166,514,756	0.7523	0.0%	$125,269.06	4%
Totals				16.8374		$2,803,675.55

 

Epcot's 

Taxing Authority	Assd Value	Exemption	Tax Value	Millage Rate	%	Taxes	Tax Breakdown
Reedy Creek Impr.	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	13.5741	21.8%	$6,182,343.00	49%
Public Schools: By State Law (Rle)	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	3.4890	-3.3%	$1,589,070.00	13%
Public Schools: By Local Board	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	3.2480	0.0%	$1,479,306.20	12%
General County	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	4.4347	0.0%	$2,019,790.40	16%
City Of Bay Lake	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	2.1244	30.8%	$967,561.00	8%
Library - Operating Budget	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	0.3748	0.0%	$170,703.19	1%
South Florida Water Management District	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	0.1061	-3.8%	$48,323.40	0%
South Florida Wmd Okeechobee Basin	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	0.1146	-3.9%	$52,194.73	0%
South Florida Wmd Everglades Const	$455,451,423	$0	$455,451,423	0.0365	-3.9%	$16,623.98	0%
Totals				27.5022		$12,525,916.12

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile the same party that has threatened to send the country into default with little concern for the ramifications is at it again with RCID bond holders:

suits 
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-reedy-creek-disney-world-bondholders-20220426-eoum5owiynaolaa74457whbg2e-story.html

From The Sentinel 

The GOP is no longer a political party - they are nothing more than anarchists. Still a Republican? Time for you to be a citizen and take your party back.
 

[spenser1058]

OC transportation sales tax goes to the ballot: 4-3 vote. I’m disappointed in the Democrats who insisted on a whole loaf instead of half. Teddy Kennedy taught us better than that decades ago. I’m hoping Mayor Jerry let them vote that way since he knew he had the votes. More to come…

Edited April 27, 2022 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

UVa’s longtime (and mostly prescient) political prognosticators, Larry Sabato and his staff, have released a breakdown of what they call the DeSantimander:

https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/breaking-down-the-desantimander/

This blatantly partisan congressional map in no way represents the political leanings of Floridians (which are close to 50-50). However, since we now have one of the most right-leaning state Supreme Courts in the country, and despite the Fair Voting Act passed by Florida’s citizens, it may be the map we have to live with in 2022.

It’s quite likely the map will face federal challenges due to racial issues (particularly in North Florida), but the arc of justice grinds slowly and may not be addressed until after the election.

What is ironic is that the map divides Polk County, long a GOP stronghold, into four different districts. Take that, Publix! In the DeSantis quest for power, past affinity means little.
 

Edited April 27, 2022 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Hey, Ron got one right. He vetoed the net metering bill, written by the investor-owned electric utilities, that would have all but killed the burgeoning residential solar industry in Florida by making it all but financially impossible for middle class homeowners to jump through the hoops.

Of course, that’s what the utilities want. Solar is the future and we shouldn’t be discouraging it.

Thank you, Mr. DeSantis, for putting a stop to this ill -advised bill.

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, the collegiate “intellectual freedom” survey for faculty and students is as bogus as a Twitter survey. As the Sentinel’s Scott Maxwell found, anyone can take the survey, even if they’ve never set foot on a college campus. Further, none of the scientific guidelines for valid polling are being used to determine the respondents or the results.

Yep, it’s another GOP culture war sham. The party seems to be determined to take us back to the bad old days of the 1950’s and Gov. Charley Johns, who nearly destroyed the state university system. 

As Ronald Reagan would say, “there you go again”.

 

[spenser1058]

Notice on the map that Florida is a big supporter of legal abortion. When the Tallahassee idiots get together soon to take us a step closer to becoming Mississippi, remember they’re ignoring the majority of citizens in the state.

Is this what you want Florida to be?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/upshot/polling-abortion-states.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 
 

Edited May 4, 2022 by spenser1058

[jack]

6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Notice on the map that Florida is a big supporter of legal abortion. When the Tallahassee idiots get together soon to take us a step closer to becoming Mississippi, remember they’re ignoring the majority of citizens in the state.

Is this what you want Florida to be?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/04/upshot/polling-abortion-states.html?referringSource=articleShare

From The New York Times 
 

The law just passed was for 15 weeks, not an outright ban or 6 weeks like Texas. That should tell you something. 

[spenser1058]

Sarasota has long been Republican but it was always a very polite, genteel Republicanism. Not anymore - the wingnuts are tearing one of the most civilized cities and counties in Florida apart:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/06/community-veers-right-political-division-tears-apart-sarasota-fla/

From The Washington Post
 

[spenser1058]

So what does Wall Street have to say about all the sturm und drang between Ron DeSantis, the GQP, Reedy Creek and Disney?

Ummmm, nothing. Not a single question on yesterday’s earnings conference call.

Great for Disney. For Floridians, it sure would be nice if our leaders would move past the political theater and, you know, govern. That, of course, is something the Republicans long ago forgot how to do.

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202205/8938/

From Theme Park Insider 
 

[spenser1058]

Some of our posters like to suggest  that all politicians are bad and it makes no difference who’s elected.

I have maintained, after working for more than my share of candidates and elected officials over the years, that, in fact, is hardly the case. Florida, after it fired the Pork Chop Gang, entered an era when Floridians did see things could be better. 

An example - as Wiki tells us, Reubin Askew, who did more than anyone else to modernize Florida government, was recognized not only statewide as one of our best governors but also nationally:

“Askew is widely thought to have been one of the state's best governors; in 2014 the Tampa Bay Times ranked  him the second best governor in Florida history and the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University rated him one of the country's top ten governors of the 20th century.”

So, no, every state government isn’t as bad as Illinois but we as citizens have to make sure the evildoers never have a chance. For a couple of decades now, we’ve fallen down on the job.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by spenser1058