LOCAL and Florida Politics

[bqknight]

35 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Well, when one of your own is acknowledging it, then what does that tell you?  But your logic is otherwise ridiculous. I can just as easily say that just because I haven't personally seen an illegal come to Miami on a boat from Cuba, then it's not happening.

But I'm not the one you have to convince.  The court of public opinion has got you outnumbered 1,000 to 1, especially when Bill Maher is talking about it.  So blame your own party for the bad PR. But don't expect everyone to be a denier by default just bc of political correctness bc it ain't gonna happen.  A law has been passed by the state legislature. The burden is on YOU to prove that it wasn't happening. So between Maher acknowledging it and Milo "spilling the beans" a few years back...

Pretty much everything in your comment is factually incorrect. 

A) There's videos of immigrants coming on boats all the time - I can source news articles for this, when you can't do the same - see HERE and HERE. This is all within the last month. 

B) I don't get your obsession with Bill Maher - he doesn't represent me or anything I stand for and don't know one person who mentions him or looks up to him. He's just an easy target for you to latch on to. He has horrible ratings and doesn't represent what the entirety or even majority of the "left" believes. 

C) Milo is an attention-seeking fraud, who is now "ex-gay" and has openly said he dislikes gay people - I don't think he's one to talk or take as fact. 

 

...that's the last I'll chime in on this, because you obviously live in your own reality - one that I guarantee you the majority of the Orlando metro area does not live in. 

[JFW657]

56 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Vengeance? Do you mean like the Steel Docier funded by Hillary? The illegal search of Miralago? How twitter took directives from the DNC to censor people including the president?  Do you mean like the weaponized IRS audit of Dinesh Disouza bc he made the Obama 2012 documentary about same? Like that? Cry me a river.

No, I do not mean anything of the sort, because none of those things, even if they really even happened, (which they did not), are all more of your shriveled up, rotten apples vs my fresh, shiny, juicy oranges.

 I really think conservative Trump and/or DeStalin supporters are congenitally incapable of being honest about anything.

56 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Typical leftist. You cry bc the MSM has only a 6 to 1 advantage of leftist news outlets to right wing outlets, and you lose sleep over the 1. And you also cry bc perhaps the largest leftist media organization aka Disney gets beotch slapped by a republican, to wit, even Maher had commentary on it where he agrees with that law, never questioning whether DeSantis overstepped. At least Disney shut the f* up and learned their lesson to stop their corporate bleeding; so continue fighting their fight, which sounds more like your fight. 

All BS. To arrive at your 6:1 ratio, you conveniently lump all the mainstream news outlets in with "leftist" news outlets, when they report the news down the center. You all are the ones throwing crying fits because they aren't clownishly far right enough to make you happy. 

Your comment about how DeSh*tstain "b*tch slapped" Disney reveals a lot about the minds of right-wingers like yourself, though. Swaggering, macho, wannabe tough-guys who get aroused at the idea of someone using physical violence to force their ignorant views on others. 

As far as Maher is concerned, yes he supported the underlying concept of not exposing young children to sexuality based issues. Something I'm surprised you even notice, given how many times I have also expressed agreement with it, yet you still misrepresent my position. 

But he is still not a supporter of DeSatan's heavy handed, Stalinist tactics.

 

56 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

A corporation's constitutional rights? You need to go back to school...

Yes, a corporation DOES have Constitutional rights.

The most well known example of it being the 2010 SCOTUS decision in Citizens United v. F.E.C. 

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/citizens-united-explained 

Sounds like you're the one who needs to go back to school, son. 

[JFW657]

45 minutes ago, bqknight said:

Pretty much everything in your comment is factually incorrect. 

A) There's videos of immigrants coming on boats all the time - I can source news articles for this, when you can't do the same - see HERE and HERE. This is all within the last month. 

B) I don't get your obsession with Bill Maher - he doesn't represent me or anything I stand for and don't know one person who mentions him or looks up to him. He's just an easy target for you to latch on to. He has horrible ratings and doesn't represent what the entirety or even majority of the "left" believes. 

C) Milo is an attention-seeking fraud, who is now "ex-gay" and has openly said he dislikes gay people - I don't think he's one to talk or take as fact. 

...that's the last I'll chime in on this, because you obviously live in your own reality - one that I guarantee you the majority of the Orlando metro area does not live in. 

He's directing those Maher references at me.

I'm a big fan of his because of his common sense, centrist take on most issues. 

The jrs2's of the world hate his guts because even though he's not the flaming progressive liberal they make him out to be, he's also not the drooling right-wing fascist goofball they think everyone should be.  

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, bqknight said:

Pretty much everything in your comment is factually incorrect. 

A) There's videos of immigrants coming on boats all the time - I can source news articles for this, when you can't do the same - see HERE and HERE. This is all within the last month. 

B) I don't get your obsession with Bill Maher - he doesn't represent me or anything I stand for and don't know one person who mentions him or looks up to him. He's just an easy target for you to latch on to. He has horrible ratings and doesn't represent what the entirety or even majority of the "left" believes. 

C) Milo is an attention-seeking fraud, who is now "ex-gay" and has openly said he dislikes gay people - I don't think he's one to talk or take as fact. 

 

...that's the last I'll chime in on this, because you obviously live in your own reality - one that I guarantee you the majority of the Orlando metro area does not live in. 

well, I don't represent DeSantis either, so take your fight to him.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

He's directing those Maher references at me.

I'm a big fan of his because of his common sense, centrist take on most issues. 

The jrs2's of the world hate his guts because even though he's not the flaming progressive liberal they make him out to be, he's also not the drooling right-wing fascist goofball they think everyone should be.  

I've been watching Bill Maher off and on since he had the Politically Incorrect show.

[aent]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:53 PM, JFW657 said:

He's directing those Maher references at me.

I'm a big fan of his because of his common sense, centrist take on most issues. 

The jrs2's of the world hate his guts because even though he's not the flaming progressive liberal they make him out to be, he's also not the drooling right-wing fascist goofball they think everyone should be.  

Where's your posting about Gavin Newsom playing this game with Walgreens right now in California? And with Tesla during COVID? Or if rights are taken away by the left, it doesn't matter?

[JFW657]

35 minutes ago, aent said:

Where's your posting about Gavin Newsom playing this game with Walgreens right now in California? And with Tesla during COVID? Or if rights are taken away by the left, it doesn't matter?

Well, the issues are not really the same.

First of all, DeSantis was the first of the two to retaliate against a corporation for going against him.

His flap with Disney began over a year prior to Newsome's action against Walgreen's.

Newsome was at the most, just taking a play out of DeSantis' play book.

https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2023/03/04/a-complete-timeline-of-the-battle-between-gov-ron-desantis-and-disney/

Secondly, what Newsome did with Walgreens, was the result of a decision by Walgreens that he felt would have a negative impact on public health.

All Disney did was to publicly state its position on a social issue. 

Thirdly, DeSantis has an established reputation as a political bully boy. Aside from what he did with RCID, he's threatened to take away liquor licenses from large hotels and local entertainment venues simply for allowing drag shows. He eliminated state congressional districts that favored Democrats in order increase the Republicans' advantage and he's stuck his nose in Florida public school classrooms. 

He's a swaggering little wannabe tough-guy jerk who's playing up that act to his voting base. The same cannot be said of Newsome 

 As for the matter with Tesla, it involved Alameda County, not the state of California.  And once again, it centered around a public health issue, not a publicly stated position on a social issue. More importantly, Tesla defied the county's order and reopened anyway, and Newsome took no retaliatory actions whatsoever.

https://calmatters.org/newsletters/whatmatters/2020/05/california-coronavirus-gavin-newsom-elon-musk-tesla-alameda-county-order/

No offense intended here, but I gotta say that I really love it, and I find it endlessly amusing, when "y'all" (as we Florida natives say) right-wingers try to draw parallels or equate some of the often egregious, underhanded tactics by your elected officials with the much more reasonable acts by officials on the left.

These attempts always fall flat and rarely stand the light of day. 

[aent]

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Well, the issues are not really the same.

First of all, DeSantis was the first of the two to retaliate against a corporation for going against him.

His flap with Disney began over a year prior to Newsome's action against Walgreen's.

Newsome was at the most, just taking a play out of DeSantis' play book.

They are the same type of issue, governments reneging on deals over a company saying something. The difference is Walgreens is losing government contracts in California that they won in a fair and equal marketplace by being the lowest bidder, while Disney had a special contract that was offered to nobody else, and nobody else could get anything like it at all. Newsom is putting Walgreens at a disadvantage against its competitors, DeSantis is putting Disney at an equal footing with its competitors

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Secondly, what Newsome did with Walgreens, was the result of a decision by Walgreens that he felt would have a negative impact on public health.

 

This can't possibly be true. Walgreens was very clear they were not modifying service to the people in California. Liberal media lie.

 

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

All Disney did was to publicly state its position on a social issue. 

 

And Walgreens is getting punished for less, all they did was comply with laws in other states and not listen to California's demands that they follow their political ideology, which does not have legal authority in the states where Walgreens is removing a drug. Walgreens was even trying to stay apolitical, but Newsom is demanding they take his side, or they need to pay.

 

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Thirdly, DeSantis has an established reputation as a political bully boy. Aside from what he did with RCID, he's threatened to take away liquor licenses from large hotels and local entertainment venues simply for allowing drag shows.

Newsom has an established reputation of being a political dictator. He's been ordering companies closed and modifying government contracts for several years now, before this Disney issue even came up. Open your eyes, thats why lots of companies recently left California. Florida law does not allow liquor to be served at sexual shows with children present, this is not a new law. All the hotels have to do to keep their liquor license is comply with existing Florida law, and not allow children to attend drag shows with liquor present. This is yet another time when even far left Bill Maher sided with DeSantis.

 

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

No offense intended here, but I gotta say that I really love it, and I find it endlessly amusing, when "y'all" (as we Florida natives say) right-wingers try to draw parallels or equate some of the often egregious, underhanded tactics by your elected officials with the much more reasonable acts by officials on the left.

 

Yeah, what the far left does is consistently far worse. At least DeSantis is focused on issues effecting our state. The children of Florida are suffering mental health issues, that is believed to be caused by what the far left is pushing in our schools in our state. Newsom is taking away vital medications from the incarcerated in California over political issues happening in another state, as Walgreens said they were not modifying service in his state. More reasonable? Thats a joke.

[nite owℓ]

16 minutes ago, aent said:

Florida law does not allow liquor to be served at sexual shows with children present, this is not a new law. All the hotels have to do to keep their liquor license is comply with existing Florida law, and not allow children to attend drag shows with liquor present. This is yet another time when even far left Bill Maher sided with DeSantis.

Nonsense. Parents can accompany their minor children to watch rated R movies. Parents can accompany their minor children to explicit comedy shows. Parents can also bring their children to restaurants and sports bars where alcohol is served. So a child can go to Hooters, but not a drag show? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Desantis is an absolute punk because he would never go after the parents who take their children into those environments, instead he takes a roundabout way to go after businesses to accomplish his anti-gay agenda. If you want to place blame somewhere, blame the parents!

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, aent said:

They are the same type of issue, governments reneging on deals over a company saying something. The difference is Walgreens is losing government contracts in California that they won in a fair and equal marketplace by being the lowest bidder, while Disney had a special contract that was offered to nobody else, and nobody else could get anything like it at all. Newsom is putting Walgreens at a disadvantage against its competitors, DeSantis is putting Disney at an equal footing with its competitors

The Walgreens contract expires on May 1, 2023 anyway. There was never any guarantee of automatic renewal. Newsome & co. simply chose to not renew it based on principle.

The Disney arrangement with the state of Florida, which had no time limit and was NOT set to expire, is not uncommon even if its allowances go beyond the scope of other special districts. But Disney's investment and the financial benefits they bring, are far above and beyond anything anyone else ever brought to the table. Ergo, Disney both earned and deserved those extra self governing abilities.

If anything, DeSantis caused Florida to renege on a written agreement. 

But things like written agreements no longer matter to the right since Trump came along and made such things passe.

7 hours ago, aent said:

This can't possibly be true. Walgreens was very clear they were not modifying service to the people in California. Liberal media lie.

Public health is an issue everywhere, not just in California. We are one nation, not fifty separate ones. Right-wing obfuscation.  

7 hours ago, aent said:

And Walgreens is getting punished for less, all they did was comply with laws in other states and not listen to California's demands that they follow their political ideology, which does not have legal authority in the states where Walgreens is removing a drug. Walgreens was even trying to stay apolitical, but Newsom is demanding they take his side, or they need to pay.

How is the sudden removal of the availability of a drug they've sold for decades, somehow "less" than publicly stating a position? 

You'll have to explain the logic behind that one.  

7 hours ago, aent said:

Newsom has an established reputation of being a political dictator. He's been ordering companies closed and modifying government contracts for several years now, before this Disney issue even came up. Open your eyes, thats why lots of companies recently left California. Florida law does not allow liquor to be served at sexual shows with children present, this is not a new law. All the hotels have to do to keep their liquor license is comply with existing Florida law, and not allow children to attend drag shows with liquor present. This is yet another time when even far left Bill Maher sided with DeSantis.

What is "sexual" about men dressed in women's clothing? If there's no sex or nudity, it does not meet the definition of "sexual".

But then again, since when has the right ever been concerned with such trivialities as the literal meaning of the words they use to justify their hypocrisy? 

7 hours ago, aent said:

 Yeah, what the far left does is consistently far worse. At least DeSantis is focused on issues effecting our state. The children of Florida are suffering mental health issues, that is believed to be caused by what the far left is pushing in our schools in our state. Newsom is taking away vital medications from the incarcerated in California over political issues happening in another state, as Walgreens said they were not modifying service in his state. More reasonable? Thats a joke.

Standard right-wing drama queen hyperbole. 

Another company will step in and supply the exact same drugs that Walgreens did. 

And please explain how taking away Disney's special district status is going to improve the mental health issues of school children or put an end to drag shows? 

You people are just too much.   

[aent]

5 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The Walgreens contract expires on May 1, 2023 anyway. There was never any guarantee of automatic renewal. Newsome & co. simply chose to not renew it based on principle.

The Disney arrangement with the state of Florida, which had no time limit and was NOT set to expire, is not uncommon even if its allowances go beyond the scope of other special districts. But Disney's investment and the financial benefits they bring, are far above and beyond anything anyone else ever brought to the table. Ergo, Disney both earned and deserved those extra self governing abilities.

Likewise, there was never a guarantee that Disney's special tax benefits would continue every year either. Infact, Florida's legislature passed a law giving a a warning to Disney about the expiration of their special tax benefits, much more notice then Walgreens is getting.. Are you arguing its unfair for the legislature to pass laws?

I got a story involving me: several years ago, a local county government created an incentive program for home efficiency improvements, offering rebates if you get them certified to a high standard. I met with the county about it, wanting to participate, and asked lots of questions, such as how long the program is going to go on for, and was told they had no end date, they hope to keep it going permanently to help save the environment. It was hard to find a third party inspector, as required by the program, so I had to help subsidize paying for their training and certification, had to change lots of product specs, and produce lots of paperwork to get the incentive money. It was a fair amount of work, but worth it in my opinion. After I got things setup, and got things going really well, I got notified after a year or so that they were discontinuing this permanent program effective immediately due to low participation rates. I asked if they could help cover any of my setup costs, and they of course said no way. They discontinued my program without so much as a vote, just by defunding it. Was I more wronged then Disney? Sure sounds like it!

I understand that as a leftist, you believe huge corporations are extremely special and important, and shouldn't have to follow the same rules as everyone else, but Disney couldn't even follow the same rules as other huge corporations, such as Comcast. Even this new district still grants Disney special tax benefits, its just not as many benefits as before, its just more in line with what other corporations with really good lobbyists are able to get, not way past that. You guys are literally flipping out and claiming discrimination when DeSantis didn't even stop the gift to Disney, all he did was make it smaller. He's still being really, really nice to Disney, and could be far worse, much like what Gavin Newsom has done to many corporations in California (often under the guise of "public health", without any scientific evidence)

6 hours ago, JFW657 said:

What is "sexual" about men dressed in women's clothing? If there's no sex or nudity, it does not meet the definition of "sexual".

But then again, since when has the right ever been concerned with such trivialities as the literal meaning of the words they use to justify their hypocrisy? 

According to the show itself, it contains adult content. I claimed the show involved was sexual in nature, not all drag. I admittedly did not watch the show, but as is, the venue, show host, and state all agree this show contained sexual content, no party involved disputes that. But when has the left ever been concerned with trivialities such as facts they use to justify their hypocrisy? Its easier to just make things up!

 

6 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Standard right-wing drama queen hyperbole. 

Another company will step in and supply the exact same drugs that Walgreens did. 

And please explain how taking away Disney's special district status is going to improve the mental health issues of school children or put an end to drag shows? 

You people are just too much.   

And the taxpayers of Florida will be pleased to have Disney contribute a little bit closer to in line with other companies in this state. I haven't seen Walgreens say anything similar about the corruption in California.

But the Parental Rights in Education bill attempts to address a leading cause of suicide, and something that has led to a lot of people having severe mental issues. It allows responsible parents to get children the help their kids need, and not to keep it a secret from them.

Disney has already said, post this issue, they are planning to relocate a lot of jobs from California to Orlando, and has said they are looking forward to working with the board of the new district, and thus far Disney has not even so much as alleged any wrongdoing by the State of Florida or DeSantis, so you clearly care more about this then the alleged victim. You just want tax breaks for those who politically agree with you and to take away fairly earned contracts from those who don't publicly agree with you (they don't even have to side against you), you people are too much.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, aent said:

Likewise, there was never a guarantee that Disney's special tax benefits would continue every year either. Infact, Florida's legislature passed a law giving a a warning to Disney about the expiration of their special tax benefits, much more notice then Walgreens is getting.. Are you arguing its unfair for the legislature to pass laws?

Hilarious. It was signed into LAW. 

The Reedy Creek Improvement Act, otherwise known as House Bill No. 486, was a law introduced and passed in the U.S. state of Florida in 1967. The Supreme Court of Florida ruled in 1968 that the law did not violate any provision of the Constitution of Florida. 

In case you weren't aware of it, there is no expiration date on laws. Walgreens and California had an annual contract. 

Note the difference.

As for the so-called "warning", if you're talking about the bill that dissolved RCID which passed the Florida legislature in 2022, that was not a "warning" and it said nothing about anything expiring. The bill became effective in 2023.

If you want to call that a "warning" or claim that the 1967 law that created RCID "expired", go ahead.

But it's BS and you know it. 

4 hours ago, aent said:

I understand that as a leftist, you believe huge corporations are extremely special and important, and shouldn't have to follow the same rules as everyone else, but Disney couldn't even follow the same rules as other huge corporations, such as Comcast. Even this new district still grants Disney special tax benefits, its just not as many benefits as before, its just more in line with what other corporations with really good lobbyists are able to get, not way past that. You guys are literally flipping out and claiming discrimination when DeSantis didn't even stop the gift to Disney, all he did was make it smaller. He's still being really, really nice to Disney, and could be far worse, much like what Gavin Newsom has done to many corporations in California (often under the guise of "public health", without any scientific evidence)

What a load.

What rules did Disney fail to follow, other than not being quiet and not making Governor DeDiaperBoy angry?  

Which of Disney's benefits did they lose other than to appoint their own board members? Now the state and the so-called "smaller government" conservative Republicans whose mantra has for decades been "make government smaller and get it off the backs of businesses", have taken control of a corporation and in doing so, EXPANDED the state government.  

And BTW, are the unhinged Trumper hypocrites going to be pushing for Governor DeCrybaby to dissolve the special taxing district of The Villages? You know about that place, right? Right-wing Republican golf enclave up around Sumter County that reliably votes Republican in every election? That place?

Ya think Governor Bully Boy is going to employ the same standard with them?

Yeah, right. 

And Newsome's restrictions in California were based on medical science and the findings of The CDC.

COVID took over a million lives and was/is a legitimate public health crisis. 

Despite the blatantly false right-wing Trumper flake claims to the contrary.  

4 hours ago, aent said:

According to the show itself, it contains adult content. I claimed the show involved was sexual in nature, not all drag. I admittedly did not watch the show, but as is, the venue, show host, and state all agree this show contained sexual content, no party involved disputes that. But when has the left ever been concerned with trivialities such as facts they use to justify their hypocrisy? Its easier to just make things up!

 

Which show? He's threatened multiple venues for putting on drag shows, including little old Plaza Live right here in Orlando.

According to Fox News Tampa:

"A Drag Queen Christmas" held its performance Monday at Fort Lauderdale's Broward Center for the Performing Arts. The show is on a national tour, with four stops in Florida — including a scheduled performance on Thursday, Dec. 29 at Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater. 

Though the governor's office accuses the show of marketing to children, ticket listings for both the Fort Lauderdale and Clearwater shows have a message that reads: "This performance has adult themes and content. Admission is limited to patrons 18 years of age or over." 

For the Fort Lauderdale performance, the message adds that those under the age of 18 may be accompanied by a parent. However, the Clearwater show does not give that option, and instead adds, "Proof of age will be required." 

https://www.fox13news.com/news/gov-desantis-investigating-christmas-drag-show-accused-of-exposing-children-to-sexually-explicit-activity

But when has the right ever been concerned with trivialities such as facts they use to justify their hypocrisy? Its easier to just make things up!

4 hours ago, aent said:

And the taxpayers of Florida will be pleased to have Disney contribute a little bit closer to in line with other companies in this state. I haven't seen Walgreens say anything similar about the corruption in California.

But the Parental Rights in Education bill attempts to address a leading cause of suicide, and something that has led to a lot of people having severe mental issues. It allows responsible parents to get children the help their kids need, and not to keep it a secret from them.

Disney has already said, post this issue, they are planning to relocate a lot of jobs from California to Orlando, and has said they are looking forward to working with the board of the new district, and thus far Disney has not even so much as alleged any wrongdoing by the State of Florida or DeSantis, so you clearly care more about this then the alleged victim. You just want tax breaks for those who politically agree with you and to take away fairly earned contracts from those who don't publicly agree with you (they don't even have to side against you), you people are too much.

Contribute what a little closer in line?

Taxes? They weren't getting any special tax breaks other mega corporations weren't.

Jobs? They're one of if not THE largest employer in the region and possibly the state. And that doesn't take into account all the other businesses and jobs that were created just by them being here. Disney created the modern Orlando area.

Charities? Disney has donated quite generously to local and national charities. Probably more than any other company.

Infrastructure? Disney has paid millions to improve the public roadways outside their property. 

So please explain to us what you feel they should contribute "more in line" with other companies.

I have no idea what you're talking about re: Walgreens saying anything about corruption in California. I don't even know what that means. 

And you don't have to defend the Parental Rights in Education bill to me, since I mostly agree with it. I've said as much here multiple times. 

I agree with the bill more than I agree with Disney's position on it but you Trumpers just don't seem to want to accept it in light of my disparaging one of your culture warrior heroes. 

But that is not even the issue here, is it?

No, it's not.

The ISSUE is Ron DeSensitive's politically motivated over reaction to Disney's publicly disagreement with him.

The rest of the nonsense about me wanting tax breaks for companies who agree with me etc, is so laughable it doesn't even merit a response, so give it a rest.

We get it.... there's no behavior you won't defend Trump or Mini Trump for and there are no lengths to which you won't go in order to accomplish your sacred mission. 

#MAGA.  

[aent]

31 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The Reedy Creek Improvement Act, otherwise known as House Bill No. 486, was a law introduced and passed in the U.S. state of Florida in 1967. The Supreme Court of Florida ruled in 1968 that the law did not violate any provision of the Constitution of Florida. 

In case you weren't aware of it, there is no expiration date on laws. Walgreens and California had an annual contract. 

Note the difference.

And laws can change anytime the legislature decides to change them, and the governor signs them into law. That is what happened. I gave you a whole example of my experience with that, why is that any different, or are you saying I was wronged just as much as Disney was when the rules were changed by those who made the rules, and decided what to fund?

36 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Now the state and the so-called "smaller government" conservative Republicans whose mantra has for decades been "make government smaller and get it off the backs of businesses", have taken control of a corporation and in doing so, EXPANDED the state government.  

For one, the new district does not allow the board to raise the district taxes without Disney agreeing, so by its nature, its likely the district cannot expand to evade any additional taxes over what they are currently doing. This means if Disney wants to build a new parking garage, for example, they'll have to use normal financing sources, and have to pay property taxes on it, and not receive municipal style tax exemptions while doing so. The same as what Universal has to do. And everyone else. By effectively preventing expansion of the district, it will ultimately make the quantity of government smaller.

[JFW657]

11 hours ago, aent said:

And laws can change anytime the legislature decides to change them, and the governor signs them into law. That is what happened. I gave you a whole example of my experience with that, why is that any different, or are you saying I was wronged just as much as Disney was when the rules were changed by those who made the rules, and decided what to fund?

There is no reason to expect decades old laws to arbitrarily change from year to year. 

An annual business contract OTOH is something that is guaranteed to expire every 12 months. 

Therefore there is no legitimate comparison of the two situations.

Also, there was no legitimate reason to change the RCID law, in spite of your unproven claims to the contrary. 

Your own claims that little or nothing has changed regarding operations in the district since the repeal supports that.

The truth of the matter is that prior to Trump, elected officials didn't behave in such blatant, revenge motivated political theater, designed solely to throw red meat to their voting base. Trump opened the door to that for everyone and green-lighted it for all his imitators that have cropped up in the GOP, including our own little mini-Mussolini governor who uses these kind of culture war tactics to fire up his base.

You can keep scraping and scratching around and using twisted logic in an attempt to falsely equate a decades old, Constitutionally approved state law with an annual pharmaceutical supply contract, but nobody is buying it. 

You're just wasting your time. 

11 hours ago, aent said:

For one, the new district does not allow the board to raise the district taxes without Disney agreeing, so by its nature, its likely the district cannot expand to evade any additional taxes over what they are currently doing. This means if Disney wants to build a new parking garage, for example, they'll have to use normal financing sources, and have to pay property taxes on it, and not receive municipal style tax exemptions while doing so. The same as what Universal has to do. And everyone else. By effectively preventing expansion of the district, it will ultimately make the quantity of government smaller.

Disney never had any kind of tax exempt status, nor did they avoid paying property taxes on new construction.

That was just another right-wing propaganda and social media disinformation campaign.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/27/facebook-posts/walt-disney-world-was-not-tax-exempt-florida-contr/ 

Yes, Disney fought with local county government over what they claimed was overvaluation of their properties while of course, the county claimed they were undervalued. 

But every other theme park in the area did the exact same thing.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/440815-what-is-disney-world-actually-worth-tax-assessment-battle-heads-to-court/  

Also, how is preventing supposed "expansion" of Disney's special district going to "make the quantity of government smaller"? 

What do you mean by that? 

How exactly was RCID "expanding" and where was it expanding to?  

You can try to put all the fancy-shmancy, razzle-dazzle, baffle 'em  with BS spin on it you want to, but it's plain as day that by putting RCID under the control of the state, they have expanded the size and scope of state government. All so Governor DeFascist could make headlines, score political points and make himself look like a right-wing tough guy.

Plain.

And.

Simple. 

[prahaboheme]

11 hours ago, aent said:

And laws can change anytime the legislature decides to change them, and the governor signs them into law. That is what happened. I gave you a whole example of my experience with that, why is that any different, or are you saying I was wronged just as much as Disney was when the rules were changed by those who made the rules, and decided what to fund?

For one, the new district does not allow the board to raise the district taxes without Disney agreeing, so by its nature, its likely the district cannot expand to evade any additional taxes over what they are currently doing. This means if Disney wants to build a new parking garage, for example, they'll have to use normal financing sources, and have to pay property taxes on it, and not receive municipal style tax exemptions while doing so. The same as what Universal has to do. And everyone else. By effectively preventing expansion of the district, it will ultimately make the quantity of government smaller.

Laws do not change because someone is voted into office. If that were the case it would be anti-democratic.

Do you prefer Brazil? If so, why not just live there for a year. 

[jack]

On 3/16/2023 at 11:21 PM, aent said:

 

For one, the new district does not allow the board to raise the district taxes without Disney agreeing, so by its nature, its likely the district cannot expand to evade any additional taxes over what they are currently doing. This means if Disney wants to build a new parking garage, for example, they'll have to use normal financing sources, and have to pay property taxes on it, and not receive municipal style tax exemptions while doing so. The same as what Universal has to do. And everyone else. By effectively preventing expansion of the district, it will ultimately make the quantity of government smaller.

This new district still allows RCID to build garages. Which means tax exempt bonds. 

[jrs2]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:35 AM, nite owℓ said:

Nonsense. Parents can accompany their minor children to watch rated R movies. Parents can accompany their minor children to explicit comedy shows. Parents can also bring their children to restaurants and sports bars where alcohol is served. So a child can go to Hooters, but not a drag show? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Desantis is an absolute punk because he would never go after the parents who take their children into those environments, instead he takes a roundabout way to go after businesses to accomplish his anti-gay agenda. If you want to place blame somewhere, blame the parents!

LMAO.  It is kind of funny when you about it... what are children doing there in the first place?

[jrs2]

On 3/17/2023 at 11:10 AM, prahaboheme said:

Laws do not change because someone is voted into office. If that were the case it would be anti-democratic.

Do you prefer Brazil? If so, why not just live there for a year. 

wrong.  it happens every day.  However, the Legislature makes the laws and the Governor signs the bill.  How many hundreds of representatives are in the state legislature?

Everyone is just so fixated on DeSantis. 

[JFW657]

14 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

LMAO.  It is kind of funny when you about it... what are children doing there in the first place?

Kind of a pointless question as people have differing reasons for where they take their kids.

Keep in mind also, that legally speaking, "kids" (children) are considered anyone under 18. 

So if one of these businesses allowed entry to a parent accompanied 17 y/o whose parents feel the "child" is mature enough to experience it, under the draconian GOP culture war, they can have their liquor license yanked.

8 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

wrong.  it happens every day.  However, the Legislature makes the laws and the Governor signs the bill.  How many hundreds of representatives are in the state legislature?

Everyone is just so fixated on DeSantis. 

It's a more complex dynamic than that, which varies from state to state and case to case. 

Yes, legislatures generally write laws and governors usually sign them. But it can also work the other way around. A governor can write or craft a bill, send it to the legislature for review, approval or tweaking, after which they send it back to the governor to sign.

But Florida has the.... (ahem) "good fortune" of having a little Mussolini governor AND a spineless, rubber stamp legislature who'll do and approve anything little Benito wants and tells them to. 

This crap is 100% Ron DeFascist all the way.   

[jrs2]

On 3/17/2023 at 10:42 AM, JFW657 said:

There is no reason to expect decades old laws to arbitrarily change from year to year. 

An annual business contract OTOH is something that is guaranteed to expire every 12 months. 

Therefore there is no legitimate comparison of the two situations.

Also, there was no legitimate reason to change the RCID law, in spite of your unproven claims to the contrary. 

Your own claims that little or nothing has changed regarding operations in the district since the repeal supports that.

The truth of the matter is that prior to Trump, elected officials didn't behave in such blatant, revenge motivated political theater, designed solely to throw red meat to their voting base. Trump opened the door to that for everyone and green-lighted it for all his imitators that have cropped up in the GOP, including our own little mini-Mussolini governor who uses these kind of culture war tactics to fire up his base.

You can keep scraping and scratching around and using twisted logic in an attempt to falsely equate a decades old, Constitutionally approved state law with an annual pharmaceutical supply contract, but nobody is buying it. 

You're just wasting your time. 

Disney never had any kind of tax exempt status, nor did they avoid paying property taxes on new construction.

That was just another right-wing propaganda and social media disinformation campaign.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/27/facebook-posts/walt-disney-world-was-not-tax-exempt-florida-contr/ 

Yes, Disney fought with local county government over what they claimed was overvaluation of their properties while of course, the county claimed they were undervalued. 

But every other theme park in the area did the exact same thing.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/440815-what-is-disney-world-actually-worth-tax-assessment-battle-heads-to-court/  

Also, how is preventing supposed "expansion" of Disney's special district going to "make the quantity of government smaller"? 

What do you mean by that? 

How exactly was RCID "expanding" and where was it expanding to?  

You can try to put all the fancy-shmancy, razzle-dazzle, baffle 'em  with BS spin on it you want to, but it's plain as day that by putting RCID under the control of the state, they have expanded the size and scope of state government. All so Governor DeFascist could make headlines, score political points and make himself look like a right-wing tough guy.

Plain.

And.

Simple. 

You're clueless.

Conservatives in 2018 voted for DeSantis against that leftist from Tallahassee just on principle.  And against Charlie, that was a no brainer too.  Disney didn't even play into it.  What did was that DeSantis vowed that Florida would remain open for business and not allow the leftists to destroy our economy.  That's what got him reelected.  Because he's got balls...something this country has been lacking for some time.  But having balls goes against the PC culture that the Left has been pushing and that most democrats and some republicans have been lulled into following. 

And, regarding Disney, their CEO, the mouth breather that was in the media before he got fired, he even admitted to the media that they put forth effort to undermine the passage of The Parental Rights Act.  He admitted it.  Is that protected by the First Amendment?

So that's the damage Trump caused; he woke people up and reminded them that they have balls and to use them.

[jrs2]

14 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Kind of a pointless question as people have differing reasons for where they take their kids.

Keep in mind also, that legally speaking, "kids" (children) are considered anyone under 18. 

So if one of these businesses allowed entry to a parent accompanied 17 y/o whose parents feel the "child" is mature enough to experience it, under the draconian GOP culture war, they can have their liquor license yanked.

It's a more complex dynamic than that, which varies from state to state and case to case. 

Yes, legislatures generally write laws and governors usually sign them. But it can also work the other way around. A governor can write or craft a bill, send it to the legislature for review, approval or tweaking, after which they send it back to the governor to sign.

But Florida has the.... (ahem) "good fortune" of having a little Mussolini governor AND a spineless, rubber stamp legislature who'll do and approve anything little Benito wants and tells them to. 

This crap is 100% Ron DeFascist all the way.   

the draconian GOP culture war and liquor licenses- yet it is democrats that want to place a moratorium and quota on the number of bars in downtown orlando.

calling a 17yo a child is ridiculous.  I'd even go as far as to say 15yo.  I was 15yo once...I saw stuff and did stuff.  I think a variation of the George Carlin standard needs to be examined.

[JFW657]

2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

You're clueless.

Conservatives in 2018 voted for DeSantis against that leftist from Tallahassee just on principle.  And against Charlie, that was a no brainer too.  Disney didn't even play into it.  What did was that DeSantis vowed that Florida would remain open for business and not allow the leftists to destroy our economy.  That's what got him reelected.  Because he's got balls...something this country has been lacking for some time.  But having balls goes against the PC culture that the Left has been pushing and that most democrats and some republicans have been lulled into following. 

And, regarding Disney, their CEO, the mouth breather that was in the media before he got fired, he even admitted to the media that they put forth effort to undermine the passage of The Parental Rights Act.  He admitted it.  Is that protected by the First Amendment?

So that's the damage Trump caused; he woke people up and reminded them that they have balls and to use them.

So typical of you in these political disagreements... completely miss the point and avoid the subject at hand. 

The discussion was about DeShamelessBullyBoy taking revenge against a corporation for making a public comment.

It was also about the supposed similarities between California choosing to not renew an annual pharmaceutical contract with Walgreens because of a decision they made re: the abortion pill, and DeStupid repealing a decades old law that established a special governing district.

Had nothing to do with why or how DeStalin got elected or the size of his balls, etc, etc.

Though we all know you right wingers are always endlessly impressed with such things. 

And to answer your question... yes, making a public statement for the purpose of undermining a proposed law IS in fact protected by the First Amendment.

Personally, I think DeStalin infringed on Disney's Constitutional right to free speech and I'd like to have seen them sue the Governor and the State. 

[JFW657]

12 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

the draconian GOP culture war and liquor licenses- yet it is democrats that want to place a moratorium and quota on the number of bars in downtown orlando.

So according to your logic, a city govt limiting the number of places to get drunk and cause trouble in a confined section of the city, is tantamount to using the threat of taking an extremely costly license away from an established business, just for allowing a parentally accompanied minor inside, to watch men strut around dressed like women??? 

I don't know exactly what is at play re: that thought process, but I'm pretty sure logic and reasoning aren't a big part of it. 

I'm thinking maybe it's got more to do with desperation. 

18 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

calling a 17yo a child is ridiculous.  I'd even go as far as to say 15yo.  I was 15yo once...I saw stuff and did stuff.  I think a variation of the George Carlin standard needs to be examined.

 Yes, you're right about that. It is ridiculous.

Yet, according to DeStalin, allowing a 17 year old accompanied by a parent or adult legal guardian is equal to child abuse or neglect and as such, adequate reason to destroy an established business.

And here you are defending him and his totalitarian tactics. 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

So typical of you in these political disagreements... completely miss the point and avoid the subject at hand. 

The discussion was about DeShamelessBullyBoy taking revenge against a corporation for making a public comment.

It was also about the supposed similarities between California choosing to not renew an annual pharmaceutical contract with Walgreens because of a decision they made re: the abortion pill, and DeStupid repealing a decades old law that established a special governing district.

Had nothing to do with why or how DeStalin got elected or the size of his balls, etc, etc.

Though we all know you right wingers are always endlessly impressed with such things. 

And to answer your question... yes, making a public statement for the purpose of undermining a proposed law IS in fact protected by the First Amendment.

Personally, I think DeStalin infringed on Disney's Constitutional right to free speech and I'd like to have seen them sue the Governor and the State. 

I'm going to post the link to that article.  the CEO was asked about his statement, he talked about it, but he also admitted to other efforts to undermine that bill.  I don't know if you misunderstood what I wrote or just ignored it.  It sounded like they tried to influence certain legislators to vote against it.

yes, I am impressed with his balls.  I liked Bon Scott's Big Balls; I like his too.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

So according to your logic, a city govt limiting the number of places to get drunk and cause trouble in a confined section of the city, is tantamount to using the threat of taking an extremely costly license away from an established business, just for allowing a parentally accompanied minor inside, to watch men strut around dressed like women??? 

I don't know exactly what is at play re: that thought process, but I'm pretty sure logic and reasoning aren't a big part of it. 

I'm thinking maybe it's got more to do with desperation. 

 Yes, you're right about that. It is ridiculous.

Yet, according to DeStalin, allowing a 17 year old accompanied by a parent or adult legal guardian is equal to child abuse or neglect and as such, adequate reason to destroy an established business.

And here you are defending him and his totalitarian tactics. 

Yay, we agree on something! 

DeStalin; I like that...

I have to admit I am not totally familiar with the law you guys were discussing.  Are you talking about the thing with transvestites performing when the bar doesn't tell the patrons ahead of time or something like that?

Unrelated, and on name play...DeStalin... I'll give you that.  But, Biden called out MAGA supporters as terrorists in a speech a few months ago.  Analyze his name:  "BIDEN", or BIn laDEN.  And as for causing division upon a population, who's the real terrorist now?