Central FL Roads and Highways

[smileguy]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:56 PM, dcluley98 said:

The whole point is to provide express access to the new Universal  Epic Universe park and an alternative to I-4 for through traffic.   There may not be traffic there now, but there will be.  Keeping Universal traffic off of the other area roads is a big plus. 

What would the cost implications be if this was shelved until the theme park development revs back up? Not sure how this project is funded, but with our low TDT collections and probable reduction in property tax collections, it might be wise to use some of that cash for general fund needs over the next couple of years.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, smileguy said:

What would the cost implications be if this was shelved until the theme park development revs back up? Not sure how this project is funded, but with our low TDT collections and probable reduction in property tax collections, it might be wise to use some of that cash for general fund needs over the next couple of years.

Its an FDOT road not a county road right?  Did they throw TDT at it?  I would be surprised if so.

[aent]

1 hour ago, smileguy said:

What would the cost implications be if this was shelved until the theme park development revs back up? Not sure how this project is funded, but with our low TDT collections and probable reduction in property tax collections, it might be wise to use some of that cash for general fund needs over the next couple of years.

Its not funded by TDT. I believe Universal is funding it entirely, and is receiving a tax credit for the value of what would normally have spent to build the road to normal specifications (Universal plans to enhance it). From memory, I think that was $125 million. My understanding is it was already agreed to by the county, so Universal can just go ahead and do it, and then avoid paying taxes for a little while.

The previous schedule pre-COVID had the road finishing exactly the same time as the park, both being built under a "rush" construction timeframe, which tends to make it more expensive as crews are more likely to need overtime and likely that things won't really be finished at the time of park opening. I imagine by proceeding with the road, it will put less stress on the schedule, allowing cost savings, and will likely allow faster construction of the park once they decide full steam ahead again.

Also, theme park development has not stopped yet at all... they've continued infrastructure and ground work throughout the coronavirus. They moved it off of a rush schedule and are delaying going vertical, but they're still proceeding with all sitework/infrastructure. They likely were previously going to need much temporary infrastructure to keep their schedule. Proceeding with the infrastructure could again avoid those costs, and again make it faster to complete the park and resume construction when they're ready. I personally don't think we're going to see anything there ever come entirely to a standstill, just not moving at insane speeds like it was before. Universal recently pulled a bunch more permits for Epic Universe.

[smileguy]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:24 PM, aent said:

Its not funded by TDT. I believe Universal is funding it entirely, and is receiving a tax credit for the value of what would normally have spent to build the road to normal specifications (Universal plans to enhance it). From memory, I think that was $125 million. My understanding is it was already agreed to by the county, so Universal can just go ahead and do it, and then avoid paying taxes for a little while.

The previous schedule pre-COVID had the road finishing exactly the same time as the park, both being built under a "rush" construction timeframe, which tends to make it more expensive as crews are more likely to need overtime and likely that things won't really be finished at the time of park opening. I imagine by proceeding with the road, it will put less stress on the schedule, allowing cost savings, and will likely allow faster construction of the park once they decide full steam ahead again.

Also, theme park development has not stopped yet at all... they've continued infrastructure and ground work throughout the coronavirus. They moved it off of a rush schedule and are delaying going vertical, but they're still proceeding with all sitework/infrastructure. They likely were previously going to need much temporary infrastructure to keep their schedule. Proceeding with the infrastructure could again avoid those costs, and again make it faster to complete the park and resume construction when they're ready. I personally don't think we're going to see anything there ever come entirely to a standstill, just not moving at insane speeds like it was before. Universal recently pulled a bunch more permits for Epic Universe.

Good insight into the nuts and bolts part of it -- all I know is that all my friends who were working on the creative side are unemployed, and some had quite a bit of time left on their contract that was paid out, making me think they weren't planning to bring folks back anytime soon.  My comment was that with general revenue and TDT both down, some of the places that TDT goes will need to be backfilled by general fund, so any big tax breaks are going to be felt much more in the community than in the normal economy. 

[jack]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:24 PM, aent said:

Its not funded by TDT. I believe Universal is funding it entirely, and is receiving a tax credit for the value of what would normally have spent to build the road to normal specifications (Universal plans to enhance it). From memory, I think that was $125 million. My understanding is it was already agreed to by the county, so Universal can just go ahead and do it, and then avoid paying taxes for a little while.

The previous schedule pre-COVID had the road finishing exactly the same time as the park, both being built under a "rush" construction timeframe, which tends to make it more expensive as crews are more likely to need overtime and likely that things won't really be finished at the time of park opening. I imagine by proceeding with the road, it will put less stress on the schedule, allowing cost savings, and will likely allow faster construction of the park once they decide full steam ahead again.

Also, theme park development has not stopped yet at all... they've continued infrastructure and ground work throughout the coronavirus. They moved it off of a rush schedule and are delaying going vertical, but they're still proceeding with all sitework/infrastructure. They likely were previously going to need much temporary infrastructure to keep their schedule. Proceeding with the infrastructure could again avoid those costs, and again make it faster to complete the park and resume construction when they're ready. I personally don't think we're going to see anything there ever come entirely to a standstill, just not moving at insane speeds like it was before. Universal recently pulled a bunch more permits for Epic Universe.

I thought this was funded CRA? 

[Dawn1000]

This is funded by CRA dollars.  The tax credit jack is referring to is for a different project for which Universal is receiving public funds, their construction of a new office building.

[dcluley98]

FDOT draft reports have deemed the massive toll-highway building plans for undeveloped regions of Florida are more of a "want" than a "need"  and encourages using current corridors and  improve them and provide alternative transportation rather than   construct an entirely new highway corridor system, which may induce sprawl and destruct local natural and rural areas, including habitat and corridors for endangered species.

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/a8da1e80e0cd47ec8adc253ca5b50d01

The draft reports, made public by the Florida Department of Transportation, also expressed a need for the department to consider a “no build” alternative — as desired by environmental and conservation groups — in future project-development activities until final recommendations are made.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2020/10/01/this-lawmakers-toll-roads-project-doesnt-have-a-public-need-but-he-still-wants-it/

“The Task Force recognized general needs to enhance transportation safety, mobility, and connectivity in the study area, but did not identify a specific need for a completely new greenfield corridor across the entire study area based on the available information at this time,” the report says.

https://www.theledger.com/story/news/local/2020/09/30/report-polk-collier-toll-road-should-use-existing-corridors-southwest-central-florida-connector/5870572002/

Edited October 2, 2020 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

I encourage everyone to read and share the reports and comment before October 14. 

[AmIReal]

11 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I encourage everyone to read and share the reports and comment before October 14. 

Very good info. Thank you for posting it.

[spenser1058]

Is it time for an I-95 interchange at Pioneer Trail in NSB?

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/2020/09/28/95-interchange-pioneer-trail-study-discussed-wednesday/3562851001/
 

From the News-Journal

Faster access to slaw rasslin’!

[spenser1058]

Kaley/Michigan interchanges on I-4 will see changes soon:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orange-county/another-texas-u-turn-coming-orlando/W76SF6X4JFBEPMPERP3VDFTGQA/
 

From WFTV 

[codypet]

Oh man, that last sentence gave me cancer.

[spenser1058]

I-4 Ultimate eastbound slips into its final footprint at FL 408 this weekend:

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orange-county/drives-need-watch-major-shift-this-weekend-i-4-sr-408-orlando/TI32CZAZDVBETGLKLSEDHGPTZU/
 

From WFTV 

Edited October 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[codypet]

Fairbanks curve WB is probably 2 weeks away

Edited October 19, 2020 by codypet

[spenser1058]

The City may vote as early as today to proceed with plans for the transformation by FDOT of the Robinson Street Corridor (FL 526) between downtown and the Milk District :

https://bungalower.com/2020/10/18/fdot-poised-to-enact-multimodal-robinson-street-plan-and-redesign-corridor/
 

From Bungalower 

Edited October 19, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

New ramps to open on The Webster (FL 429) at Stoneybrook West Parkway on Saturday:

https://www.orangeobserver.com/article/new-s-r-429-ramps-to-open-in-winter-garden
 

From West Orange Times 

[codypet]

Holy crap that was fast!  Say bye bye to traditional toll plazas.

[jgardnerucf]

District DOT guy lives off the defunct 14th hole at abandoned stoneybrook west.

[spenser1058]

South Street is converting to WB only under I4:

https://bungalower.com/2020/11/16/south-street-permanently-shifting-to-westbound-traffic-only-under-i-4/

From Bungalower 

[WAJAS]

While I generally dislike one-way roads because they aren't pedestrian friendly. This makes sense.

South St isn't and has not in recent memory been used by pedestrians at all. Before I-4 Ultimate, the exit there made it unfriendly anyways.

The movement for exiting and entering the express lanes also appears to be pretty smooth and easy to access in this configuration.

[codypet]

So its still technically two way, but you just can't go through.  Correct?  I guess if you're leaving the Amway you gotta take Anderson if you want to go east on 408.

[HankStrong]

Kinda one-way!

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Can see the new roads being built downtown are pretty high

[EngineerNole]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:24 PM, aent said:

Its not funded by TDT. I believe Universal is funding it entirely, and is receiving a tax credit for the value of what would normally have spent to build the road to normal specifications (Universal plans to enhance it). From memory, I think that was $125 million. My understanding is it was already agreed to by the county, so Universal can just go ahead and do it, and then avoid paying taxes for a little while.

The previous schedule pre-COVID had the road finishing exactly the same time as the park, both being built under a "rush" construction timeframe, which tends to make it more expensive as crews are more likely to need overtime and likely that things won't really be finished at the time of park opening. I imagine by proceeding with the road, it will put less stress on the schedule, allowing cost savings, and will likely allow faster construction of the park once they decide full steam ahead again.

Also, theme park development has not stopped yet at all... they've continued infrastructure and ground work throughout the coronavirus. They moved it off of a rush schedule and are delaying going vertical, but they're still proceeding with all sitework/infrastructure. They likely were previously going to need much temporary infrastructure to keep their schedule. Proceeding with the infrastructure could again avoid those costs, and again make it faster to complete the park and resume construction when they're ready. I personally don't think we're going to see anything there ever come entirely to a standstill, just not moving at insane speeds like it was before. Universal recently pulled a bunch more permits for Epic Universe.

My understanding is that Universal is funding this.  FDOT just finished the Sand Lake Rd project that widened those bridges too, so Universal will be making more changes to this.  The article says Orange County and Universal are working together.  I imagine the extension south of Sand Lake will not be a part of the state road system, but I don’t know for sure.

[dcluley98]

It's P3 (Public-Private Partnership) with both Universal and public entities providing portions of the funding. 

Quote

"How was funding established? The public-private partnership for the Kirkman Road Extension involves Orange County and Universal. The Orange County Board of County Commissioners approved a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in February 2019. The current total cost estimate provided by Universal is $315 million, but this is subject to change since the actual cost of the roadway construction phase must still be finalized once all the design plans are complete and the project is put out to bid. The county's contribution is as follows:

- $125 million from Orange County:

•  Lump sum payment of $60 million at the end of construction/upon completion (Community Redevelopment Area – CRA funds from I-Drive)
• + up to $25 million in impact fee credits
• + up to $40 million (CRA Incentive Funds as a rebate to Universal) also at the end of construction/upon completion in annual payments based on the incremental growth / in taxable property values over the 2019 base year directly attributable to Universal's property located within the CRA
• $60 million CRA + $40 million CRA Incentive Funds + $25 million impact fee credit = $125 million

- State job grant. There is also a $16 million grant from the Department of Economic Opportunity (DEO) that the County will administer. The Florida Job Growth Grant Fund awarded for $16 million will be contributed to the project. The grant proposal was written with input from Lockheed Martin, the Orange County Convention Center, Universal and the UCF Rosen School of Hospitality.

- Universal contributions. Universal is contributing the balance of $160 million, which may be subject to increase based on final construction costs.

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/Portals/0/Library/Traffic-Transportation/docs/Kirkman Road Extension Fact Sheet_ADA.pdf

FDOT is doing portions of the project for interchanges connected to Sand Lake Road (State Road 482) and Kirkman Road (State Road 435) – under their jurisdiction and north of Sand Lake Road connection. 

https://www.cflroads.com/project/443817-1

Edited December 23, 2020 by dcluley98