Central FL Roads and Highways

[codypet]

19 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I will say, I never realized that Magnolia is getting a dedicated connection from the causeway as you come up Orange.  I imagine it won't be practical much of the time, since DPAC will close it down a lot, but if it's ever open, that will help alleviate traffic on Rosalind.

If they were, it wasn't in the plans.  Are you thinking about the entrance to the new Epass service center?  The BL of survey here is shown going up Magnolia only because that's the historical alignment.  Just like how Orange dead ends at the lake.

Edited August 3, 2021 by codypet

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

If they were, it wasn't in the plans.  Are you thinking about the entrance to the new Epass service center?  The BL of survey here is shown going up Magnolia only because that's the historical alignment.  Just like how Orange dead ends at the lake.

If only @codypetcould reconnect the J. Rolfe Davis Causeway to Magnolia and reconnect Rosalind to Delaney…  I guess Lymmo is OK, but once OSCAR disappeared I wanted to go back to the old alignment.

Edited August 3, 2021 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

When I scootered up on Sunday it DEFINITELY looked like it went all the way through.  I'll try to go after work and investigate.

[AndyPok1]

Update. Just drove through it. Coming up Orange, stay in the left lane as if you're going to get on 408 West. Then there's a right lane that leads to a roundabout under 408 with the EPass Service Center and access to the yellow house, but if you continue through you end up at the light at Anderson/Magnolia

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I don't understand how that park under the new i-4 downtown is supposed to work. Walking under the i-4 is very very loud. The road noise seems as though it would make the park a less peaceful place and I hope I am wrong. Also pedestrians trying to get from one side of i-4 to the other are not thought of. It is a nightmare trying to cross those roads

Edited August 8, 2021 by IAmFloridaBorn

[spenser1058]

7 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I don't understand how that part under the new i-4 downtown is supposed to work. Walking under the i-4 is very very loud. The road noise seems as though it would make the part a less peaceful place and I hope I am wrong. Also pedestrians trying to get from one side of i-4 to the other are not thought of. It is a nightmare trying to cross those roads

It really wasn’t until Billy Hattaway joined the staff in the Buddy era that the City got serious about pedestrians and cycling (Mayor Bill brought about the modern era in Orlando  and, like many folks of his age, thought pedestrians were mostly a nuisance).

Oddly, Lou Treadway, OC Commission member and chairman in the ‘80’s, wanted to do something, but power was still too dispersed under the old form of county government to override Mayor Bill or be successful.

Serious planning for what to do about an overburdened I4 got underway (FDOT at one point wanted to double deck the darn thing) in Mayor Glenda’s era but she got distracted by the fight over light rail and what to do with NTC.

The truth is at that point serious discussion should have been given to returning I4 to the original alignment along JYP (it got moved because Martin Andersen wanted easy access for the Sentinel’s trucks and he hoped it might help downtown - it didn’t). 

Anyway, we got what we got. We’ll have to wait and see if Under-I is the antidote.

It’s worth noting that original planning for I4 began as the civil rights movement was growing. Martin Andersen, as both a member of the old SRD board and publisher of the Sentinel, carried a lot of sway on road projects.

He was also a notorious segregationist. Not only did moving the I4 alignment assist his business, it also helped cut off Parramore from downtown. From the very beginning, not making it easy to walk by was part of the plan. 
 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by spenser1058

[codypet]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:19 PM, AndyPok1 said:

Update. Just drove through it. Coming up Orange, stay in the left lane as if you're going to get on 408 West. Then there's a right lane that leads to a roundabout under 408 with the EPass Service Center and access to the yellow house, but if you continue through you end up at the light at Anderson/Magnolia

hmmm.  IIRC that roundabout has always been there.  That connection would be new however.

Seemed easy enough to build.  This is the view from the roundabout to that slip ramp in 2013.

Edited August 9, 2021 by codypet

[AmIReal]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:19 PM, AndyPok1 said:

Update. Just drove through it. Coming up Orange, stay in the left lane as if you're going to get on 408 West. Then there's a right lane that leads to a roundabout under 408 with the EPass Service Center and access to the yellow house, but if you continue through you end up at the light at Anderson/Magnolia

I drove through there mid-day Sunday. Even though there was no traffic it took me 9 minutes to go from Anderson to Pine due to the lights.

[codypet]

I went there by bike because my curiosity got the best of me.  What's even crazier and you can see it in the screenshot I posted is there's a SB exit out of the roundabout that lets you head westbound onto Lucerne Cir toward 408 WB.  Almost like they were really expecting quite a bit of traffic down there.

[AmIReal]

Orlando received $606,000 from the USDOT RAISE grants to apply toward sections of improvements to Orange and Rosalind Avenues downtown, Colonial Drive, Semoran Boulevard (including the Curry Ford Road intersection), Orange Blossom Trail and Kirkman Road .

Per the article there may be more to come in future phases.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/orlando-gets-600k-save-pedestrian-lives/V4GI6RVBOJHKFJE7QGRVHE6EXE/

[dcluley98]

Ultimate I-4 project in theory vs. in practice. . . . 

 

Would like @Codypet to comment on this, but  in practice it is not working as it should from 50 WB downtown. 

There is a failure in design in that they created a WB entrance on Concord and Amelia way too close to the main 50 entrance and way too confusing and created merger hell in too short of a distance. 

This WB entrance from Hughey at Concord should be eliminated and through lanes from 50 entrance preserved to keep from weaving and backup of traffic on the ramps and cross-streets. 

There should be no Concord Overlap on-ramp. . . . It is too close to the other two options and creates confusion.  If you missed your ramp, tough crap, wait a couple of lights for a more efficient ramp.  . . . I don't know how this was designed as is. 

The design of this section is flawed and creating confusion, backups, and accidents that are uneccesarry.  Put max throughput onto I-4 from the 50 interchange and overflow onto Huhgey that can't get on. If you are at Concord or Amelia, drive south on Hughey to get to the ideal on-ramp south of downtown. . . not there. 

This section of highway design stresses me out every time I try to navigate it now, to the point that I avoid it. 

It is wrong, and should be addressed/fixed.  

It is recently implemented, but young enough that changing it now with recognition that the design is flawed would be beneficial compared to the budget and completion of the improper design. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by dcluley98

[codypet]

So what you're referring to as the Concord Ramp is the SR 50 onramp and the Hughey overlap Ramp is referred to as the Amelia Ramp.  The 50 on ramp acted as the replacement loop ramp that got you on I-4 WB as a single lane ramp.  As a result, a single lane ramp replaced it.   All that merging you're seeing getting onto the ramp at Colonial Ramp at the last second, and sometimes mid-turn is illegal.  Right now the ramp and the intersection doesn't have its friction course so its not clear in the pavement markings what's going on, but the signage is as clear as day.

You're not in the left left turn lane, tough cookies, you're in the wrong lane and you keep going down to Amelia and get on there.  Full stop.  I'm hoping the final course of asphalt and the pavement markings make it clear.

A similar issue happens getting off going EB here.  The Amelia exit is signed for SR 50 EB and then there's a separate exit for SR 50 WB.   What's not clear is what exit the Garland Ave people going straight should be in, but sit there for 5 mins and see how many people shoot across from the SR 50 WB Ramp all the way to the right to go EB.  I'm hoping something physically stops you from doing that like they did at Lee Road and Wymore.

[Jerry95]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

the signage is as clear as day.

While this signage may be MUTCD compliant, I'd hardly call it clear as day. Splitting left lanes or whatever the heck this is should be illegal and frowned upon. The decision point here is "am I making a left turn" not "am I making a lefty left or a righty left". The fact that drivers merge in the middle of the intersection is a clear indication that the majority of traffic wants to go on I-4. This would flow a lot better if it looked like the ramp to EB I-4/Garland, with two lanes going to I-4 and one lane splitting off for SB Hughey. 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Jerry95

[AndyPok1]

14 hours ago, codypet said:

A similar issue happens getting off going EB here.  The Amelia exit is signed for SR 50 EB and then there's a separate exit for SR 50 WB.   

I'm definitely guilty of doing that.  Avoids the extra light. :shrug:

[spenser1058]

I suppose it’s too late to get the Robinson St. exit back. It was SOOO much easier to get to Eola then….

[codypet]

32 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I suppose it’s too late to get the Robinson St. exit back. It was SOOO much easier to get to Eola then….

Won't be when Robinson becomes 2 lanes in about 2 years.

[codypet]

3 hours ago, Jerry95 said:

While this signage may be MUTCD compliant, I'd hardly call it clear as day. Splitting left lanes or whatever the heck this is should be illegal and frowned upon. The decision point here is "am I making a left turn" not "am I making a lefty left or a righty left". The fact that drivers merge in the middle of the intersection is a clear indication that the majority of traffic wants to go on I-4. This would flow a lot better if it looked like the ramp to EB I-4/Garland, with two lanes going to I-4 and one lane splitting off for SB Hughey. 

I'm gonna guess and say they're probably going to be painting I-4 shields on the floor on the appropriate lane.  I mean its really no different than the Wymore exit or the Lake Mary exit or the University Exit off 417.   There's examples of this all over the city.  

 

[Jerry95]

@codypet Fair enough, I still think it’s a poor design here because of the volume of traffic intending to go WB on I-4 from WB 50.  A large number of drivers know they can chance it by merging mid-intersection with a high success rate. If infrastructure leads to bad and unsafe driving habits it’s bad infrastructure. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Jerry95

[spenser1058]

FDOT is doing it again. We may have thought that when they ditched the other two unnecessary tollways further south, that the proposed Turnpike extension would be ditched also. Silly us.

It’s back and the neighbors are miffed (given this is a deeply Republican area, this will be fun to watch). Particularly interesting is that it will only go to US 19 in Marion County. If you’re going to do it, the logical thought would be to extend it to I-10. FSU fans have wanted that for years but it was always denied because they have the I-75 route.

Most folks have recommended expanding I-75 (it’s definitely in need), but of course FDOT has a love affair with toll roads.

Stay tuned.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/florida/os-ne-florida-turnpike-extension-20211209-qj4dyasyojgxxc3db2iarss3zq-story.html

From The Sentinel and the Ocala Star-Banner
 

[codypet]

Why not both!??! A Turnpike within I-75 R/W.  Like I-4 ultimate, a two lane toll road in the median of I-75 with 3 lanes of I-75 in each direction flanking it.   Then they could have their toll road.

[spenser1058]

25 minutes ago, codypet said:

Why not both!??! A Turnpike within I-75 R/W.  Like I-4 ultimate, a two lane toll road in the median of I-75 with 3 lanes of I-75 in each direction flanking it.   Then they could have their toll road.

That’s certainly an option but good luck selling that to the retirees there (let’s not forget these are all DeSantis voters). I know this will come as a shock to the folks who profit both directly and indirectly from what are essentially private toll roads, but everyone else loathes tolling. Especially boomers brought up when government actually worked for people and not profits (I.e., when the president was Ike and not The Donald).

[dcluley98]

All it does is drive sprawl, really.  Take the existing corridors and optimize them with HSR and last mile near major city centers and TODs, and VTL in other areas. 

[spenser1058]

36 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

All it does is drive sprawl, really.  Take the existing corridors and optimize them with HSR and last mile near major city centers and TODs, and VTL in other areas. 

That’s great for passengers but the interstate system is how goods move across the country. Rail helps, of course, but the country’s too spread out for it to work everywhere. We’ve recently learned what happens when the supply chain doesn’t keep up.

Edited December 10, 2021 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Huh? I didn't say anything about changing the existing Interstate system.  I said use the additional ROW to optimize it. 

I think you mistunderstood my comment as "replacing" interstates.  Just don't try to grow it unecessarily and lead to more sprawl. 

[prahaboheme]

I still hold out hope that one day Orlando will dust off the OSCAR plans and move forward with light rail and streetcar options.

It still bothers me to this day that one vote killed Orlando’s light rail proposal.  We can only wonder just how different the city would have grown if it were 20 years and running (I guess we can look to Charlotte for that).