Central FL Roads and Highways

[codypet]

Time for strong enforcement then.

Edited September 6, 2022 by codypet

[HankStrong]

 

[jrs2]

this comes from a link in the Attractions thread I posted.  I uploaded this overlay image here b/c it may be the first time anyone has seen how the Kirkman extension will actually look.

 

 

[codypet]

Yea I don't quite understand how it'll work based on that I've seen in the construction drawings.  Seems like its going to be a sea of retaining walls.

[shardoon]

13 hours ago, codypet said:

Yea I don't quite understand how it'll work based on that I've seen in the construction drawings.  Seems like its going to be a sea of retaining walls.

Are those bus lanes in the middle like at disney which also appear to extend north of SLR?

Edited October 13, 2022 by shardoon

[dcluley98]

Yes, it is dedicated express lanes to bus between the new park/hotels, and CityWalk/old parks, and the in between resorts (like new Endless Summer property south of I-4). 

[codypet]

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

Yes, it is dedicated express lanes to bus between the new park/hotels, and CityWalk/old parks, and the in between resorts (like new Endless Summer property south of I-4). 

Per the permit plans though they're elevated in many locations.  So lots of MSE wall.

[dcluley98]

Yeah, I only saw concepts, but it is kinda weird in that it almost limited access and grade separated BRT system.  Also that whole dedicated roundabout thing for major ingress/egress is very interesting. It looks like it would be signaled for maximum throughput for the BRT system with a major "intersection" but signalled to stop traffic on the standard car through lanes while buses use the large outer radius to navigate in and out of the separated lanes with maximum efficiency and safety. 

Would be interested to hear your other thoughts on the design if you have more information (and/or opinions) to share. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:31 PM, codypet said:

Time for strong enforcement then.

 

I'm no traffic engineer, but it seems like these obvious design errors could be easily fixed by installing some barriers to prevent the "idiot users" from misuse of the intended design.  Extending the medians and curbs slightly and installing some flexible lane delineators to guide traffic as the design was intended would prevent a lot of problems. This would "retrain" people to use the correct earlier exit for Colonial East, prevent potential incidents from lane jumping and improper use, increase throughput and efficiency, and overall, be safer: 

Lane Delineators:

 

Current Design: 

 

"Fixed" Design: 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by dcluley98

[codypet]

There's also no mention of Garland Ave on any of those signs with drives me nuts.  I wonder how many people cut over to the right only to turn left on Magnolia, not knowing you can go straight and get there faster.

Re- the flexible delineators, unfortunately if you watch videos in SoFla people make a point to run those over.  I know the general consensus is they're just a headache and a regular curb is preferred.

[aent]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

 

I'm no traffic engineer, but it seems like these obvious design errors could be easily fixed by installing some barriers to prevent the "idiot users" from misuse of the intended design.  Extending the medians and curbs slightly and installing some flexible lane delineators to guide traffic as the design was intended would prevent a lot of problems. This would "retrain" people to use the correct earlier exit for Colonial East, prevent potential incidents from lane jumping and improper use, increase throughput and efficiency, and overall, be safer: 

Lane Delineators:

 

Current Design: 

 

"Fixed" Design: 

 

I-4 North? lol

17 minutes ago, codypet said:

There's also no mention of Garland Ave on any of those signs with drives me nuts.  I wonder how many people cut over to the right only to turn left on Magnolia, not knowing you can go straight and get there faster.

Re- the flexible delineators, unfortunately if you watch videos in SoFla people make a point to run those over.  I know the general consensus is they're just a headache and a regular curb is preferred.

I think the situation in South Florida is a bit different then at this one interchange. Regardless, at this point, its not even illegal to do this described behavior, even if the guidance signs try to guide you not to. As said, Garland isn't even listed on the signs so there's no way to know which exit/lane you should be using for that, and the delineators would prevent you from using the second exit for that while there is room right now.

Engineering should usually always start with the simplest (and most flexible) solution, which is, if they infact don't want anyone crossing, start by putting a double white line to indicate lane changes are not permitted. As it is, the line is dashed so its completely legal.

 

[dcluley98]

East.  

Hey, I'm not from 'round here, it is traveling North.  

 

Oh yeah, a double white line, that will work. LOL. 

The "simplest" solution would have been to not have 2 separate exit ramps, just take everybody off at the first ramp and direct them to either "West" or "East" Colonial with sinage with ample distance for people to choose which direction they are going. 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by dcluley98

[aent]

4 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

LOL, East.  

 

Hey, I'm not from 'round here, it is traveling North.  

I knew what you meant lol

If I was placing delineators (or a curb or even just double white line), I probably would just put them from just on the right lane that is supposed to turn east on colonial, that way that exiting traffic can use both left turn lanes (and go straight as well, which I don't think is a source of traffic problems)

[spenser1058]

“East.  

Hey, I'm not from 'round here, it is traveling North. “

If you really want to mess with your mind, once you have it straight in your head that I-4 East means North and I-4 West means South, take a trip up to Nashville.

In Music City, I-24 East means South and I-24 West means North.

After 15 years of getting I-4’s madness clear, I moved to Nashville and it was the exact opposite.  It took a while to work that all out.

While we’re on interstate madness, almost EVERYWHERE in the country a three digit interstate starting with an even number denotes a bypass going around downtown. The primary route into downtown is the two-digit number.

EXCEPT Tampa. Where the main road downtown is I-275 and the bypass is I-75. Was FDOT having a bad hair day? (we won’t even mention that as originally envisioned, the road going into town and across to St Pete was going to be I-4).

 

[shardoon]

Quick question. I have not voted yet and have a question about the sales tax increase regarding transportation. Is there anything preventing the county from diverting the current existing budget for transportation to new mon transportation projects? Kind of like having 50 cents budgeted and funded for transportation already (outside the tax) and then if the tax passes, removing the already budgeted 50 cents and diverting it somewhere else and just replacing the 50 cents funding source with the tax.

I'm not saying they will do this, but is there anything legal in place that would prevent them from doing this? I'm honestly tired of governmental shenanigans, but I fear this outcome. If there is no legal wall preventing them from doing so, I fear that I may vote NO even though I really want the money for transportation.

[codypet]

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/1585132f8cc345a2be519d235a2c865b

https://www.orangecountyfl.net/TrafficTransportation/TransportationInitiative.aspx

I was hoping to find the actual language of the bill, but I can't seem to find it.  I wish I could give you an answer that lets me point to a specific line in the bill, but I can't seem to find anything.

I expected to find the answer under FAQ, but its not there either.

Edited October 28, 2022 by codypet

[shardoon]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/1585132f8cc345a2be519d235a2c865b

https://www.orangecountyfl.net/TrafficTransportation/TransportationInitiative.aspx

I was hoping to find the actual language of the bill, but I can't seem to find it.  I wish I could give you an answer that lets me point to a specific line in the bill, but I can't seem to find anything.

I expected to find the answer under FAQ, but its not there either.

I reviewed some of the roadway improvements on the map in the link you provided. Most of the roadway improvements are on side roadways that are simply listed as "intersection improvements." I made notation on quite a few of the roads where I live. They DO NOT NEED intersection improvements. Sand Lake Road is already getting widened from funding from the FDOT. The whole Turkey Lake interchange is being redone and is funded by beyond the ultimate, already funded by the state. There are countless county and state roads highlighted and the only project they are listed for are "intersection improvements." Why am I starting to feel uncomfortable with all this? 

I am really getting the concern that this is just a means reallocate existing funding to new pet projects that have nothing to do with transportation. 

[codypet]

Sand Lake Road between Dr.  Phillips BLVD and I-4 is County and that's listed as a "crash mitigation project"  Sand Lake East of Turkey Lake is State Road.

I don't know what the "intersection improvements" along Turkey Lake and Apopka Vineland entail, but it looks like its throughout the corridor.   Based off that, I'm thinking R-turns.

Turkey Lake gets lighting projects as well.  

Throughout the city is an metric ton of Lynx expansions.

[shardoon]

So long story, I voted No. They were to vague and quit frankly, there is no reason that a huge chunk was underwriting the Lynx bloat. They never said just how much was going to rail outside of 45% going to rail/lynx and another 55% going to all the questionable road project discussed earlier in the thread. 

Lastly, they were going to have a special citizen board with special oversight on how they spend the money. Not enough. 

All they needed to do was put another line of language in there stating that the current transportation budget must be frozen, or at least not decreased if this new tax gets passed. I wanted assurances. They never gave it, which makes me think they were being opaque for a reason. To make people think that this bill is much needed and can only be used for transportion project, which would be true...... but at the same time slash their existing budget for transporting project that normally get budgeted and use that money for anything they want. 

Thanks, but I'm no fool.

[jack]

2 hours ago, shardoon said:

So long story, I voted No. They were to vague and quit frankly, there is no reason that a huge chunk was underwriting the Lynx bloat. They never said just how much was going to rail outside of 45% going to rail/lynx and another 55% going to all the questionable road project discussed earlier in the thread. 

Lastly, they were going to have a special citizen board with special oversight on how they spend the money. Not enough. 

All they needed to do was put another line of language in there stating that the current transportation budget must be frozen, or at least not decreased if this new tax gets passed. I wanted assurances. They never gave it, which makes me think they were being opaque for a reason. To make people think that this bill is much needed and can only be used for transportion project, which would be true...... but at the same time slash their existing budget for transporting project that normally get budgeted and use that money for anything they want. 

Thanks, but I'm no fool.

I am leaning that way as well. I am getting expressway authority and the lottery for school funding vibes. 

[codypet]

3 hours ago, shardoon said:

So long story, I voted No. They were to vague and quit frankly, there is no reason that a huge chunk was underwriting the Lynx bloat. They never said just how much was going to rail outside of 45% going to rail/lynx and another 55% going to all the questionable road project discussed earlier in the thread. 

Lastly, they were going to have a special citizen board with special oversight on how they spend the money. Not enough. 

All they needed to do was put another line of language in there stating that the current transportation budget must be frozen, or at least not decreased if this new tax gets passed. I wanted assurances. They never gave it, which makes me think they were being opaque for a reason. To make people think that this bill is much needed and can only be used for transportion project, which would be true...... but at the same time slash their existing budget for transporting project that normally get budgeted and use that money for anything they want. 

Thanks, but I'm no fool.

For all I know that language is there, but they did a poor job of explaining that to the public if it is there.  Its a major miss if its not in there.

[dcluley98]

Yeah, that's ripe for abuse. 

I can't blame anybody that votes no. 

 

I certainly hope it passes and is well stewarded, but that was a very "Politician" way to word the actual measure on the ballot. 

[jliv]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:35 PM, dcluley98 said:

Yeah, that's ripe for abuse. 

I can't blame anybody that votes no. 

 

I certainly hope it passes and is well stewarded, but that was a very "Politician" way to word the actual measure on the ballot. 

There's one also on the ballot in Hillsborough County today (as with Osceola County) which seems to have jumped through enough legal challenges in the past couple of weeks to make it to voters.  The language may be a matter of surviving legal challenges from opponents like "Ax the Tax".   The Hillsborough question is a second attempt at a surtax; a previous attempt in Hillsborough a couple of years ago actually succeeded, only to be voided in court because spending discretion was removed from the county commission, which is in violation of the state constitution.   I was happy with the wording on the Orange County ballot, as it is concise and most importantly, legal; the "citizen oversight" board is the best you can do to keep politicians honest and the public informed.

It's disappointing that people like Scott Maxwell came out against the tax, because this is probably the only way to give more power to local officials to make peoples' lives better, within the constraints of state law.   You can always vote out officials if they are adopting policies you don't like, but you have to empower them when you do vote them in!

Edited November 8, 2022 by jliv

[dcluley98]

Actual language of the ballot:

"Shall a Charter County and Regional Transportation System Surtax at the rate of one percent (1%) be levied in Orange County, Florida for a period of 20 years with revenue deposited into a trust fund dedicated exclusively to transportation and transit improvement uses authorized by law, with oversight and accountability for the revenue provided by a citizen oversight board and the elected comptroller, as approved by the Board of County Commissioners?"

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Actual language of the ballot:

"Shall a Charter County and Regional Transportation System Surtax at the rate of one percent (1%) be levied in Orange County, Florida for a period of 20 years with revenue deposited into a trust fund dedicated exclusively to transportation and transit improvement uses authorized by law, with oversight and accountability for the revenue provided by a citizen oversight board and the elected comptroller, as approved by the Board of County Commissioners?"

County transportation budget $600 million a year pre measure passing. Measure passes, $600 million put in a trust for transportation. Original $600 million moved elsewhere. Perfectly legal based on the ballot language and the reason I voted NO