Central FL Roads and Highways

[dcluley98]

The project itself isn't the boondoggle. 

The P3 aspect and bill of goods FDOT got tricked into is the boondoggle. Now they are being strong-armed because they agreed to the process whereas if they went traditional project route they would have recourse to punish and/or replace the non-performing contractors. 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

2 hours ago, aent said:

I mean, by the definition of the word, its clearly not: I-4 was easily the worst interstate in the state. Anyone who questions the need for that project is in my eyes crazy.

The article doesn't question any need for the project either. The questions are on the management of the project. I do think Orlando was getting the shaft in state funding for roads for a long time, leading to the necessity for such a monster project at once. It would have been far preferably to do it in much, much smaller pieces. That'd also make massive cuts by a contractor, such as the pedestrian bridge downgrade, a much more significant portion of the project and much less likely be unacceptable. I-4 Mobility Partners is getting away with murder, quite literally, and is setting an example of how not to setup a road project. But that has nothing to do with the need for said projects.

Yes I agree the project is clearly NOT a boondoggle. The project is clearly needed. I just take issue that once a problem arises or is perceived with Mass transit then critics use this word to make their case against mass transit. Yet if I 4 has issues that word is not even mentioned. I’m a firm believer in a comprehensive transit system.

[aent]

2 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

The project itself isn't the boondoggle. 

The P3 aspect and bill of goods FDOT got tricked into is the boondoggle. Now they are being strong-armed because they agreed to the process whereas if they went traditional project route they would have recourse to punish and/or replace the non-performing contractors. 

 

57 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Yes I agree the project is clearly NOT a boondoggle. The project is clearly needed. I just take issue that once a problem arises or is perceived with Mass transit then critics use this word to make their case against mass transit. Yet if I 4 has issues that word is not even mentioned. I’m a firm believer in a comprehensive transit system.

Plenty of roadways have been called Boondoggles as well... Innovation Way and Wekiva Parkway, along with the new roadways proposed in North Central Florida have all been called the same. And likewise, many mass transit systems are never touch that word: Disney transport, Universal, NYC Subway expansions, etc. If the system isn't used much, it shouldn't be surprising thats its called a boondoggle, whether its a highway (Wekiva) or a train (Sunrail)

[AndyPok1]

I mean, I'm anti-people dying on the job.  Hot take, I know.  But beyond that and the cheapening of the Maitland Ped Bridge, I have 0 issues with Ultimate.  Traffic is flowing as good as it can while entirely reconstructing an entire interstate.  I honestly expected MUCH worse traffic.

[codypet]

I know you guys aren't privy to some the stuff I've seen, but there's a lot of little things from an aesthetics and engineering standpoint that just sucks with this project.  Little things like not lighting the signs or using the wrong sign color schemes.  At Kirkman, the MSE wall isn't correctly joined and plywood was used to hide it.

[JFW657]

Mills Avenue between South St. and Anderson will close for 3 months beginning on November 6th.

If you use that section of road on a regular basis, you'll need  to make alternate plans.

http://www.wftv.com/video?videoId=1001219238&videoVersion=1.0

This is being done in connection with the lift station project.

[spenser1058]

You like boondoggles? In Tallahassee, that’s their favorite thing so long as they can line pockets with cash. Three roads to nowhere:

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2019/10/25/desantis-approved-these-toll-roads-so-wheres-the-reason-to-build-them/

From the St. Pete Times

And if they degrade the environment? Not our problem!

[aent]

13 hours ago, codypet said:

Little things like not lighting the signs

My understanding is FDOT no longer wants to maintain sign lighting unless its required due to the sign being located at an angle headlights won't hit it. They claimed it was no longer necessary with advancements in the retro-reflective materials signs are made out of, so there is to be almost no new installations of them in the entire state (CFX and other local authorities may be exempt from that, but I 4 isn't)

I do find it ironic they issued that directive around the same time they decided to install many more backlit street blades and seemingly have made that the standard installation everywhere around the exact same time.

[HankStrong]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 6:16 PM, spenser1058 said:

You like boondoggles? In Tallahassee, that’s their favorite thing so long as they can line pockets with cash. Three roads to nowhere:

https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2019/10/25/desantis-approved-these-toll-roads-so-wheres-the-reason-to-build-them/

From the St. Pete Times

And if they degrade the environment? Not our problem!

I think the Southern of the 3 is a good thing, the other 2 are pretty iffy.

[nite owℓ]

On 10/25/2019 at 8:11 AM, codypet said:

I know you guys aren't privy to some the stuff I've seen, but there's a lot of little things from an aesthetics and engineering standpoint that just sucks with this project.  Little things like not lighting the signs or using the wrong sign color schemes.  At Kirkman, the MSE wall isn't correctly joined and plywood was used to hide it.

 

Things like that make me wonder how many other corners are being cut  -- especially in areas that we can't see. Is that a potential safety issue? (i.e. can  the gaps lead to soil erosion, followed by wall failure?)

The state keeps harping about deadlines, but if the deadlines are not being met due to misc variables but rather SGL's incompetence, then no deadline in the world will mean anything to them. If anything, it only adds pressure for SGL et al. to cut corners and hide problems.

[spenser1058]

CFX brings the Split Oak expressway controversy forward again:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-split-oak-road-controversy-reawakens-20191031-5vq47stbf5fdtflbghmq6lyyja-story.html

From the Sentinel 

[HankStrong]

Cliff's Notes version for the paywall impaired?

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Cliff's Notes version for the paywall impaired?

Basically, a public hearing is planned to determine whether the public favors an extension of Osceola Parkway through the Split Oak wildlife forest or an alternative route which skirts Split Oak.

It gets complex, but some folks say that losing 100 acres of Split Oak may be a worthwhile sacrifice to save some recently added land Tavistock is making available for mitigation. There are huge land owners like Tavistock and the Mormons involved so this will get interesting.

[HankStrong]

I was looking at the plans and honestly don't think the skirts option is environmentally friendly either.  However, the route would seriously be a great thing.

I've got no dog in this hunt, but it seems like it might get interesting.

[EngineerNole]

On 10/24/2019 at 3:52 PM, dcluley98 said:

The project itself isn't the boondoggle. 

The P3 aspect and bill of goods FDOT got tricked into is the boondoggle. Now they are being strong-armed because they agreed to the process whereas if they went traditional project route they would have recourse to punish and/or replace the non-performing contractors. 

Had FDOT gone the traditional route, the project would never have been built.  It was too expensive and the interstate along this section would have taken 30 years to complete with “traditional” smaller contracts.  It would take multiple projects over a span of decades.

[JFW657]

Major announcement today regarding $900 million federal grant for autonomous shuttle lanes on I-4

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Major announcement today regarding $900 million federal grant for autonomous shuttle lanes on I-4

Do you have a source for this? The one I found is $883m nationwide with $20m of it going to Nona:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/310937-elaine-chao-ron-desantis-announce-florida-federal-transportation-grants

From Florida Politics

Edited November 12, 2019 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

I'm seeing $20mil for expansion in Lake Nona... haven't heard anything re: I-4.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-chao-transportation-announcement-20191112-znngm2m3hngxjngg3yg5uohyw4-story.html

 

[Jvest55]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Major announcement today regarding $900 million federal grant for autonomous shuttle lanes on I-4

You are off base by a factor of 36.

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/dot-awards-900-million-build-grants

No individual grant was more than $25 million, and no state was awarded more than $90 million. Half of the funding was awarded to projects in rural areas.

[Jvest55]

Florida got around 7% of this $900M grant, which I guess is nice to see. Spread over Orlando, Miami and Jacksonville

[AmIReal]

38 minutes ago, Jvest55 said:

You are off base by a factor of 36.

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/dot-awards-900-million-build-grants

No individual grant was more than $25 million, and no state was awarded more than $90 million. Half of the funding was awarded to projects in rural areas.

So the OP was somewhat correct... there was a major announcement of $900m in fed grant. Orlando got a nice portion of that money and some of that is going to autonomous vehicles.

I got your back @JFW657

[Jvest55]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

So the OP was somewhat correct... there was a major announcement of $900m in fed grant. Orlando got a nice portion of that money and some of that is going to autonomous vehicles.

I got your back @JFW657

Not really, but ok.

[HankStrong]

I still don't see the I4 part???  I see Lake No-No.

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2019/11/12/gov-desantis-trump-administration-announce-20-million-lake-nona-investment/

[JFW657]

I heard them breathlessly announce it like some kind of big, breaking news story yesterday afternoon on Ch 9. I was in the middle of a post on another forum at the time so I was trying to pay attention to both at the same time. I heard them mention $900 million for "autonomous bus lanes". I could've sworn I heard I-4 mentioned, but maybe not.  Sorry for any confusion.

[smonteserin]

https://smartgrowthamerica.org/the-u-s-builds-death-traps-not-streets/?fbclid=IwAR17VkxlnEGyRU4mgY794U6ZrkSxBHf4ePZZFCy1hGZiYHE41TeKsweAnO4  Posted on Smart growth for Central Florida Group on Facebook.