389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[dcluley98]

Well, duh, they came from our Sunshine?!

[JFW657]

11 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I'm not sure if this is some sort of trap or not.

I'm never quite sure if these posts come from some weird alternate dimension where colors come out as sound and trees raise your children.

I wanna go!!!!

Edited January 15, 2020 by JFW657

[spenser1058]

It’s almost time for baseball in Central Florida...

https://twitter.com/ucf_baseball/status/1217214171365986305?s=21

Charge On!

[spenser1058]

Or there’s baseball right on Orange Avenue! ( well, in Winter Park...)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfond_Stadium_(Rollins_College)

 

[AndyPok1]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:37 PM, Urban Mail Carrier said:

If I can ask Why can’t CWS not be retrofitted and domed? Is it that expensive? Seems like money being thrown around and unnecessary construction. 

Two main reasons.

1) Two-sport stadiums have almost unilaterally failed.  The only one left was Oakland, and the football team is moving to Vegas.  That is primarily for a few reasons (oo now we're into sub-reasons). 

A) As the graphics have pointed out when people drew them a few pages back, you need 300+ feet in two directions.  A standard football field is not that wide, so you either have to do some weird/clunky/bad wall and have a very short outfield in one direction (a la Fenway which gets a pass because its historical) or you have to tear out a significant amount of seats and almost have a roundish oval grass area rather than a square.

B) The focal points for seats are awful.  Generally in a baseball stadium you want every seat to face towards home plate/infield, and except for the bleachers, none to be that far away.  When you play baseball in a football stadium, many of the seats end up oriented towards the outfield, so you have to do a weird body turn for 3 hours since most of the action is to your left/right in the infield.  Also, on the not weird short outfield side, the seats are wayyyyyyyyy too far away, so generally you dont even sell them and just cover them up.

2) Cheap seats in baseball go for $10 or so.  It's similar to airline tickets.  The airlines aren't making money off your $500 economy seat.  They're making money off of the $7000 business class seat.  Thus, they need as many of the business class seats as possible that will sell.  Most baseball stadiums have 2-3 levels of club seating/loge/suites, not to mention dugout suites and restaurants.  PLUS all of the first 5 rows surrounding home plate and the infield.  I can't find the numbers for the CWS redo, but I don't think there's that many on the club level, and again to point 1-B, they are oriented towards football.    Tropicana for all its awfulness has 70 luxury boxes and almost 3000 club seats

--

So basically can it be retrofitted and domed?  Yeah, but it would basically cease to be a football stadium to be successful as a baseball stadium.  Not saying thats good/bad/indifferent, but you get one or the other.

Edited January 15, 2020 by AndyPok1
Noticed I used yards instead of feet. Don't UrbanPlanet at 1AM

[HankStrong]

Spot on, Andy.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

A lot of tinkering and retrofitting that can prove to be more expensive then actually building a new stadium. Also if the owners can stomach the costs and go through with the change the stadium loses its functionality of other sports that have been bringing money. Seems like to me, that with some foresight the leaders who pushed for renovations of CWS should have designed a stadium that can cater to all sports. Not just football! More sports = more events= more opportunities = more revenue... You never now when the next opportunity will present itself. 

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

A lot of tinkering and retrofitting that can prove to be more expensive then actually building a new stadium. Also if the owners can stomach the costs and go through with the change the stadium loses its functionality of other sports that have been bringing money. Seems like to me, that with some foresight the leaders who pushed for renovations of CWS should have designed a stadium that can cater to all sports. Not just football! More sports = more events= more opportunities = more revenue... You never now when the next opportunity will present itself. 

They had a pre-existing "shell" to work within and the kind of redesign you're suggesting probably wouldn't have been possible without demolishing one side. Given the limited funds available to do what they managed to do, that was likely not even a possibility.

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

They had a pre-existing "shell" to work within and the kind of redesign you're suggesting probably wouldn't have been possible without demolishing one side. Given the limited funds available to do what they managed to do, that was likely not even a possibility.

If you look at the history of Joe Robbie Stadium (Dolphins), it was specifically designed with baseball in mind.

When the Marlins actually played in it, however, they discovered several problems with it and, even after more tinkering, were still unhappy.

The idea of multi-sport stadia (especially football and baseball), has pretty much gone extinct.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Rock_Stadium

From Wiki

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Well see what happens. Time will tell. Speculation is fun.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Urban Mail Carrier

[JFW657]

1 minute ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Well see what happens. Time will tell. Speculation is fun.

One of my favorite pastimes.

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

If you look at the history of Joe Robbie Stadium (Dolphins), it was specifically designed with baseball in mind.

When the Marlins actually played in it, however, they discovered several problems with it and, even after more tinkering, were still unhappy.

The idea of multi-sport stadia (especially football and baseball), has pretty much gone extinct.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Rock_Stadium

From Wiki

Trying to put two different shaped fields together inside one stadium is a problem nobody has come up with a satisfactory solution for.

If they could come up with a "Steimetz Hall" style solution where they use hydraulics and rails to move a portion of the stands out for baseball then back in for football, maybe that could work.

Of course it would probably cost almost as much as just building a separate stadium.

 

[HankStrong]

38 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

A lot of tinkering and retrofitting that can prove to be more expensive then actually building a new stadium. Also if the owners can stomach the costs and go through with the change the stadium loses its functionality of other sports that have been bringing money. Seems like to me, that with some foresight the leaders who pushed for renovations of CWS should have designed a stadium that can cater to all sports. Not just football! More sports = more events= more opportunities = more revenue... You never now when the next opportunity will present itself. 

Can you show a single facility in the entire world where this functions well?  It's been tried over and over and over and over again.  I'm being 100% serious here.  If you can find one anywhere in the world where it functions well, please post it.

• YES - Some rectangle sports do a good job with each other.  You can play soccer (AKA world futbol), football (AKA Murika Foosball), Canadian football, field hockey, rugby, lacrosse, and the like on similar fields and they can go well together in stadiums.  They have to shorten, lengthen, widen, narrow, etc those marked fields in most cases, but they are all rectangles and as long as your field is good for the largest one, you're fine.  I think the largest field is Association Football (soccer) with 110m x 75m.
• NO - Other rectangle sports like volleyball, tennis, ice hockey, swimming, badminton, etc don't really work because they are either too small (in a tournament style set of games, you could use multiples in a larger field, but in general that wouldn't work) or require special fields made of water, sand, or ice.
• NO - Baseball and cricket don't really work because of their shape.

I don't really know how to say it better than Andy did, but can you enlighten us as to why the general answers to this topic seem to be eluding you?

 

References: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_(sports_field)

 

 

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I was just repeating or rewording what he said. I understand what he was teaching me. But with that said , if we can put a man on the moon and build buildings that contort, I’m sure we can build stadiums that contort to specific sport dimensions. Whether it’s economically feasible for a team, to expensive to build, or impractical can be debated another day. Thanks @AndyPok1

[dcluley98]

Two Port-a-Potties showed up on the sidewalk next to this site. 

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Two Port-a-Potties showed up on the sidewalk next to this site. 

Woohoo - time to cue Ron Paul for this one- it’s real!

[JFW657]

Maybe they're part of that downtown Port-a-Potty program.

I hope so, as I do not want this monstrosity to go up. <praying emoticon>

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Maybe they're part of that downtown Port-a-Potty program.

I hope so, as I do not want this monstrosity to go up. <praying emoticon>

Uh-oh, now you’re in trouble. I believe it’s in  our bylaws that we are required to genuflect before any tall new building, no matter how hideous or whether it is good for the site, takes out trees or replaces a dignified old building.

BUILD WE MUST!

Edited January 20, 2020 by spenser1058

[dcluley98]

Could be staging area for X-Orlando  across the street. 

[JFW657]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

Uh-oh, now you’re in trouble. I believe it’s in  our bylaws that we are required to genuflect before any tall new building, no matter how hideous or whether it is good for the site, takes out trees or replace a dignified old building.

BUILD WE MUST!

I live for and thrive on being in trouble.

Downvote the Zoi!!!!

[Dale]

Watch it be 440’.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

Maybe they're part of that downtown Port-a-Potty program.

I hope so, as I do not want this monstrosity to go up. <praying emoticon>

is this like those bicycles you pay to rent downtown?

[JFW657]

Just now, jrs2 said:

is this like those bicycles you pay to rent downtown?

Nah, I think they've been setting up Port-a-Potties around downtown for the bums and drunks to relieve themselves and get sick in.

[Dale]

Could somebody measure those Port-a-Potties ? Probably a height cap on them too.

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, Dale said:

Could somebody measure those Port-a-Potties ? Probably a height cap on them too.

@dcluley98 is our Official UP Port-A-Pottie specialist. Please reach out to him for his expertise on this important topic.