389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[spenser1058]

Let’s SAVE THE TREE!

[cwetteland]

18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Let’s SAVE THE TREE!

Hope someone finds it a good home.

[jgardnerucf]

Move the whole building 150' south. Keep the corner green for pocket park. (Think about it, that whole intersection is going to be concrete and with heavy walkability, even more, once those 2 projects go vert.) The building would be more prominent and not hidden from The First FA and vis from all 4 sides.

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Move the whole building 150' south. Keep the corner green for pocket park. (Think about it, that whole intersection is going to be concrete and with heavy walkability, even more, once those 2 projects go vert.) The building would be more prominent and not hidden from The First FA and vis from all 4 sides.

@jgardnerucf IS MY HERO!

[dcluley98]

I'm having a hard time picturing what you are describing. "The Tree" is  not on the north side of the lot.  

[spenser1058]

Eeeek! SAVE THE TREE

”I think that I shall never see a building lovely as a tree.”

Edited May 12, 2020 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I'm having a hard time picturing what you are describing. "The Tree" is  not on the north side of the lot.  

But the lot is on the north end of the block.

What he's suggesting is abandoning that empty lot altogether and move the project south so that it's closer to the next intersection south of Livingston, which IIRC is Robinson.  Then turn that corner parcel where the tree is into a park.

Never happen, of course.

I'd just like to see a smaller footprint building there, and tree and the Fritelli's building saved.

[dcluley98]

Gotcha. Thanks, JFW. 

[spenser1058]

Given the rough water the economy is headed into, I don’t expect anything that hasn’t already broken ground to progress for a while. Nevertheless, some fool developer (where’s Ms Ponte these days?? maybe she went back to architecting) could decide to make the thing look “shovel ready” and level the freakin’ tree.

[JFW657]

Nothing would surprise me.

[AndyPok1]

Don't get me wrong.  I'm pro-tree.  I agree we don't want to become a concrete wasteland.  And I'm also very much oaks are what make Orlando what it is.  AKA not a coastal city.

But not right there.  Not 3 blocks from Main and Main.  Yes, ideal world it would be built around.  We don't live in an ideal world.  Having a building on that corner rather than an awful overgrown fenced in lot like its been LITERALLY as long as I've lived here?  Complimenting the courthouse and BoA and new construction on the 3rd corner?  Transformative.

The goal for the past decade and next 5 years until Sentinel project becomes serious has been about extending the CBD north.  Walkability largely ended at Washington.  It's been pushed to Jefferson.  The next block is a bit of a wasteland due to the cathedral (which is special in its own right), but hopefully the prefab mess with have some sort of desirable retail in addition to the storefronts on the cross-street to push it to Robinson.  Activating this corner successfully pushes it to Livingston and Amelia.  This parcel is so important for connectivity.  It can't be understated because of the courthouse impeding the next block north and the cathedral to the south.  This NEEDS to be something important or else we are having 3 dead blocks on the east side of Orange EVEN if Sentinel comes online in the next decade.

[popsiclebrandon]

Also to finally get that falling apart Acquittal Cafe building down would be a huge improvement.

[spenser1058]

When Buddy announces this wonderful new project that will transform downtown and y’all await the next Empire State Building, then get another five story frame construction apartment complex like the one up the street, I could be smug.

Instead, I’ll be mourning the death of a several hundred year old tree that could actually have improved lives with care.

Welcome to Buddy’s Vision-Free Orlando.

[orange87]

Maybe the city could offer a tax credit or some other type of incentive for anyone in the downtown area who replants it in a good place.

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

When Buddy announces this wonderful new project that will transform downtown and y’all await the next Empire State Building, then get another five story frame construction apartment complex like the one up the street, I could be smug.

Instead, I’ll be mourning the death of a several hundred year old tree that could actually have improved lives with care.

Welcome to Buddy’s Vision-Free Orlando.

I'm guessing that tree is probably more like 40 or 50 years old. Possibly even less.

But, remind us again what Buddy Dyer has to do with the design of whatever goes up there or what the developers and owners of the property decide to do with "our" (their) tree....

6 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Maybe the city could offer a tax credit or some other type of incentive for anyone in the downtown area who replants it in a good place.

Interesting idea.

.

Edited May 13, 2020 by JFW657

[Uncommon]

4 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Don't get me wrong.  I'm pro-tree.  I agree we don't want to become a concrete wasteland.  And I'm also very much oaks are what make Orlando what it is.  AKA not a coastal city.

But not right there.  Not 3 blocks from Main and Main.  Yes, ideal world it would be built around.  We don't live in an ideal world.  Having a building on that corner rather than an awful overgrown fenced in lot like its been LITERALLY as long as I've lived here?  Complimenting the courthouse and BoA and new construction on the 3rd corner?  Transformative.

The goal for the past decade and next 5 years until Sentinel project becomes serious has been about extending the CBD north.  Walkability largely ended at Washington.  It's been pushed to Jefferson.  The next block is a bit of a wasteland due to the cathedral (which is special in its own right), but hopefully the prefab mess with have some sort of desirable retail in addition to the storefronts on the cross-street to push it to Robinson.  Activating this corner successfully pushes it to Livingston and Amelia.  This parcel is so important for connectivity.  It can't be understated because of the courthouse impeding the next block north and the cathedral to the south.  This NEEDS to be something important or else we are having 3 dead blocks on the east side of Orange EVEN if Sentinel comes online in the next decade.

Sentinel? Can someone elaborate?

[JFW657]

2 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Sentinel? Can someone elaborate?

Possible large development proposed for the Orlando Sentinel property.

Might be a thread a few pages back.

[spenser1058]

This is the last one  I found in Google. As you might expect it’s from the Sentinel. Paul Brinkmann was usually a good reporter on such things:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/opinion/fl-op-col-rick-scott-medicare-fraud-20181002-story.html?outputType=amp

Whatever they do, I hope we don’t lose the newsroom building. Apparently, in that deal the Sentinel sold it and is just leasing. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by spenser1058

[Jerry95]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Whatever they do, I hope we don’t lose the newsroom building. Apparently, in that deal the Sentinel sold it and is just leasing. 

I personally would like to see the OS Newsroom relocated to a new tower in the Creative Village as part of a Media and Technology ‘tower’. The old building may be historic but it’s an eyesore and the lot is poorly used. As a NQ resident the lots between Colonial and Amelia create such a gap between our area and the CBD.
 

As for the tree, can we not have it relocated to the 7 eleven as part of the save-the-park campaign? Or did that fizzle away...

[Musikprince]

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

When Buddy announces this wonderful new project that will transform downtown and y’all await the next Empire State Building, then get another five story frame construction apartment complex like the one up the street, I could be smug.

Instead, I’ll be mourning the death of a several hundred year old tree that could actually have improved lives with care.

Welcome to Buddy’s Vision-Free Orlando.

We will agree with you if the Zoi is only 5 stories but it's not! It's 39 stories and that warrants justification for needing to remove the tree, even if it sucks to do it. 

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, Musikprince said:

We will agree with you if the Zoi is only 5 stories but it's not! It's 39 stories and that warrants justification for needing to remove the tree, even if it sucks to do it. 

Or.... scale it back to 25 - 30 stories with a smaller footprint and keep the tree...  

[dcluley98]

Green space and preservation, conservation and   utilization of the natural environment is one of the basic tenets of urban planning.   You argue we "need" a basic 39 story tall residential building. Well while that is ideal, we don't exactly NEED that. We do need trees. Argumentum ad Absurdum, what if we decided we did not need trees and every decision we removed them every time in infinite cases.  Carried to the extreme, these decisions would cause life itself to cease to exist. Not having a tall building would not necessarily make a difference. 

So yeah, we need trees downtown. Large, old growth deciduous trees do not exactly grow on trees downtown, lol. 

I am firmly in the camp of alter the plan to try to save and incorporate the tree, and shrink the monstrous pedestal base. Tall is fine, but the street level planning and design in this proposal leaves a lot to be desired. Hoping we can have both. 

[spenser1058]

18 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Green space and preservation, conservation and   utilization of the natural environment is one of the basic tenets of urban planning.   You argue we "need" a basic 39 story tall residential building. Well while that is ideal, we don't exactly NEED that. We do need trees. Argumentum ad Absurdum, what if we decided we did not need trees and every decision we removed them every time in infinite cases.  Carried to the extreme, these decisions would cause life itself to cease to exist. Not having a tall building would not necessarily make a difference. 

So yeah, we need trees downtown. Large, old growth deciduous trees do not exactly grow on trees downtown, lol. 

I am firmly in the camp of alter the plan to try to save and incorporate the tree, and shrink the monstrous pedestal base. Tall is fine, but the street level planning and design in this proposal leaves a lot to be desired. Hoping we can have both. 

Or, looked at in terms of scarcity, there are two healthy, multi-generational trees left in the core (west of Rosalind, east of I-4) at the moment*: the Zoi one and @dcluley98‘s tree behind Metropolitan. We have maybe 15-20 10+ story structures in that space.

It seems like we need more trees than towers at the moment.

Also, have you ever noticed how much turnover is in those towers? Why is it no one seems to want to stay? Could it be because at the moment the quality of life is lacking? If so, it seems more sterile towers doesn’t change that equation.

Let me be clear: I have no problem with tall buildings. For example, as far as I’m concerned that tower at Orange and Robinson could have been 1000’ tall and I would have been happy to lobby with our congresscritters to get the FAA to allow it (that’s how SunBank Center got a variance).

The only time you’ll hear me complain (and yes, loudly) is when quality of life amenities like century-old trees and buildings that were an important part of our past get leveled while we still have multiple surface parking lots that could be used instead.

If only tall buildings mattered, downtown Jacksonville would be running circles around downtown Orlando. Instead, it’s been dying for decades while we were growing.

* that I’m aware of

 

 

 

[Uncommon]

If we had a bunch of tall buildings, then yes, save the tree at the expense of building an unnecessary tall building. Not only do we have an unofficial height limit, but we only have 3 or 4 over 400 feet though, not to mention there’s not a lot of demand for high rises in Orlando as it is. It seems we get one tall building built every decade or so. 
Figure out a way to build the building and save the tree. If one must go, it’s the tree for me, EASILY.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Uncommon

[dcluley98]

There are a couple of large oaks around St. James Cathedral and  the  old courthouse/history center, but not quite as big as the  tree on this lot.