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389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]


ucfpatriot18

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Between the heinous disregard for a healthy tree that’s likely been there for hundreds of years and the “me! me! only I matter!” attitude of Chris Dorworth in the below Sentinel article, this is why we should never give developers and the real estate industrial complex the control of our city they’ve been given:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/seminole-county/os-ne-chris-dorworth-river-cross-offer-20211001-kpinqkmmy5f2nlkcb4xxnrgdke-story.html

12 minutes ago, codypet said:

BRING ON THE FINES!

TwJSkpIeftj0Txfz7S0of27XeVY=.gif

That’s a great redo from the courthouse scene in “Miracle On 46th Street”…

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All I can find is this passage in new ordinance passed this summer. Can't find the actual amount anywhere.

 

treeremoval.PNG.12262cc07bf4ab98d6b3d661ae15182a.PNG

Did this ever get designated?

 

The removal of a historic or specimen tree without a permit is deemed to be an irreparable and irreversible violation. A fine of up to fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000.00) may be imposed for the removal of a historic or specimen tree without a permit. The following factors shall be considered in determining the amount of the fine:

1.

The gravity of the violation;

2.

Any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation; and

3.

Any previous violations committed by the violator.

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23 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Does this man EVER walk around in his own downtown? It’s part of the problem with him. “Management by wandering around” has long been a thing - see Walt Disney for just one example. If Bloomberg could ride the subway in NYC and Mayor Pete could get out in South Bend with Chasten, Buddy can spend time seeing what’s what in Orlando. That’s what his OPD bodyguard unit is for.

This also points out one of the problems with this administration. Buddy hired Bungalower’s founder (a onetime UP poster) to keep in touch with social media, among other things. However, Buddy creates these positions and their findings often never bubble up for reaction at the top. If it’s not an interest of his, it goes unnoticed. 

Everybody has blind spots and when you turn over leaders every eight years, the next man or woman up likely will have different priorities. When you have a mayor-and-council-for- life, though, the same things are ignored, often for decades. See Apopka.
 

Maybe maybe not. I know I used to see him by himself walking around but that was years ago. I know it was by design (as I mentioned before) but don't know if he still does that. 

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

All I can find is this passage in new ordinance passed this summer. Can't find the actual amount anywhere.

 

treeremoval.PNG.12262cc07bf4ab98d6b3d661ae15182a.PNG

Did this ever get designated?

 

The removal of a historic or specimen tree without a permit is deemed to be an irreparable and irreversible violation. A fine of up to fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000.00) may be imposed for the removal of a historic or specimen tree without a permit. The following factors shall be considered in determining the amount of the fine:

1.

The gravity of the violation;

2.

Any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation; and

3.

Any previous violations committed by the violator.

I don't know but the fine should be higher. I paid 15k to remove some trees (long story, it was not by choice) which was the max permit costs. 

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13 hours ago, JFW657 said:

It never ceases to amaze me how those on the right try to pretend Trump wasn't and isn't the crude, low-class grifter POS that he is.

Like he is just another politician who is hated for nothing more than his conservative positions.

What a load.

I know your parents must have raised most of you better than to act like Trump yourselves, but just because he switched his Democrat uniform for Republican, you all defend him no matter what kind of vile, trashy, often illegal behavior he engaged in, or how he thumbed his nose at the legal system of this country.

Whatever "BS mumbo jumbo" you Trump worshippers were subjected to over his one term, he brought it all on himself. 

Neither Biden nor Harris have ever openly mocked a reporter with MS in front of a crowd of rabid, drooling knuckledragger supporters like Trump did. 

Biden has never openly insulted and disrespected members of Congress, (including those in his own party) solely because they didn't lick his boots hard enough. 

Biden  never openly disparaged the sacrifice of a war hero and former POW like John McCain the way Trump did.

Biden never openly attempted to bribe a foereign leader to open a bogus investigation of a rival's family member right before an election by threatening to hold hostage, foreign aid that had already been approved by congress.

Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum, ad infinitum. 

And that's all not to even mention the 30,500+ documented lies, untruths, misstatements of fact etc., that Trump blatantly and shamelessly told while in office.

It's long past time for you people on the right to stop pretending Trump is a poor, innocent little victim who never did nuffin' wrong and is being unfairly picked on.

That's a load of BS and you know it as well as we do. 

And yeah.... the crude sex jokes about Harris are offensive even to someone like me who's almost impossible to offend.

That stuff is low class gutter trash just like Trump himself and certainly not appropriate for this forum. 

...And nothing that you just wrote in the above essay is appropriate for this thread unless it's in that politics thread Spenser started in the Coffee House.  

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9 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

According to the parks department, the developer did this without any consultation of the permitting department and with no regard for the process we were trying to have it moved. 

 

The main parks department director I was emailing, Andy Kittersley, sent me this response:

+++++

"The tree was removed illegally during the weekend. We knew nothing about this.

The owner had the tree removed without applying for a Tree Removal Permit,
and is now subject to a severe fine for the unpermitted removal of a Live Oak
larger than 60"DBH.
It won't bring the tree back, but it will likely be very expensive for him.
 
We are as upset about this as you are. I was working with a tree mover to
discuss the project of moving it.
 
Andy"
+++++
 
Not that it is going to bring it back. So stupid. 
 
Can't do anything about it now though. 

I just contacted channel 9 news via their website story submittal and sent them the story.

Maybe we'll be hearing about it.

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2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...And nothing that you just wrote in the above essay is appropriate for this thread unless it's in that politics thread Spenser started in the Coffee House.  

Obviously.

But the off topic political conversation was already started when I responded.

The question then is... who and what initiated it?

I would say that it was initiated by the name of the Vice President of the United States of America being dragged into it via a smutty, degrading comment.

The next question would be, who dragged her name into the conversation and made the smutty, inappropriate comment?

Look, I realize you were just trying to inject a little humor into the discussion, which is fine. I think we all love humor around here . But, even if this had taken place in The Coffee House/Politics thread, the comment would have stll been crude and inappropriate for Urban Planet. That's the kind of mud slinging that I admittedly have (and still do) gleefully and wholeheartedly engaged in myself countless times, but always in "smash mouth", no holds barred, almost-anything-goes political discussion forums. 

My point about the right defending Trump in spite of and contrary to, the objective reality of what we were all taught as children about what kind of people we should and should not be as adults, still stands.

Trump is trash and everyone knows it.

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6 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Obviously.

But the off topic political conversation was already started when I responded.

The question then is... who and what initiated it?

I would say that it was initiated by the name of the Vice President of the United States of America being dragged into it via a smutty, degrading comment.

The next question would be, who dragged her name into the conversation and made the smutty, inappropriate comment?

Look, I realize you were just trying to inject a little humor into the discussion, which is fine. I think we all love humor around here . But, even if this had taken place in The Coffee House/Politics thread, the comment would have stll been crude and inappropriate for Urban Planet. That's the kind of mud slinging that I admittedly have (and still do) gleefully and wholeheartedly engaged in myself countless times, but always in "smash mouth", no holds barred, almost-anything-goes political discussion forums. 

My point about the right defending Trump in spite of and contrary to, the objective reality of what we were all taught as children about what kind of people we should and should not be as adults, still stands.

Trump is trash and everyone knows it.

I said one thing; you said 50 things.  just go to the Coffee House or people are going to get sick and tired of this forum.

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12 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I said one thing; you said 50 things.  just go to the Coffee House or people are going to get sick and tired of this forum.

I was going to suggest the same thing.

Any further response to this issue needs to go into the political thread in the CH.

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Okay so it's hard to follow but the tree was cut down right? Now the question is who cut the tree down and why? And what I mean by that is the owner of the property cut it down just because or is there development getting ready to happen that we don't know about. Is there any reason that a property gets trees cut down other than development?

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17 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Okay so it's hard to follow but the tree was cut down right? Now the question is who cut the tree down and why? And what I mean by that is the owner of the property cut it down just because or is there development getting ready to happen that we don't know about. Is there any reason that a property gets trees cut down other than development?

According to the City’s urban forester Andy (or maybe he’s been promoted), the developer had no permit to take down the tree. I’d speculate if a development were imminent, this would have been more likely to go through channels and do the right thing. 

I may be totally wrong (I have zero inside info) but I think someone went rogue here, either because our discussion leaked to a wider audience, or as @dcluley98 pointed out from Andy, that city staff had started looking for a way to move the tree and someone decided to show he didn’t have to listen to a bunch of treehuggers.

We’ll have to wait and see if any other info trickles down.
 

Edited by spenser1058
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15 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

According to the City’s urban forester Andy (or maybe he’s been promoted), the developer had no permit to take down the tree. I’d speculate if a development were imminent, this would have been more likely to go through channels and do the right thing. 

I may be totally wrong (I have zero inside info) but I think someone went rogue here, either because our discussion leaked to a wider audience, or as @dcluley98 pointed out from Andy, that city staff had started looking for a way to move the tree and someone decided to show he didn’t have to listen to a bunch of treehuggers.

We’ll have to wait and see if any other info trickles down.
 

I just wonder why a developer would do that without there being emotion for an imminent development. I'm not necessarily a tree hugger but that is a strange move on a property like that.

 

And very quickly speaking on trees one of the things I love about Lake Eola in downtown Orlando along Central is some of those older trees that provide shade and coolness. I wish we would plant more of them instead of palm trees but anyway that's a different conversation.

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Well, the property owner may have thought that it would become a potential problem for future plans of development or cost associated with having to move it or change the design to accommodate it.  Or affect the resale value of the property, potentially or timeline of a sale or development. 

Any real developer would know that you can't just go around removing trees without a permit.  But they probably figured they would "take care of the problem" without following the local laws and ordinances. 

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17 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I just wonder why a developer would do that without there being emotion for an imminent development. I'm not necessarily a tree hugger but that is a strange move on a property like that.

 

And very quickly speaking on trees one of the things I love about Lake Eola in downtown Orlando along Central is some of those older trees that provide shade and coolness. I wish we would plant more of them instead of palm trees but anyway that's a different conversation.

Sometimes developers get desperate  when trying to push a project that’s going nowhere and start advertising them as “7-star resorts” or  promote what seem to be unlikely amenities. If one had a committed project, one would likely have the funds to either permit a tree removal or, better yet, pull off a PR coup by working with the city to move it.

If you needed something to happen quickly and weren’t getting traction, you might get antsy and tear down a huge tree to make it look like something was happening (particularly if you think saving trees is silly *like a few posters on here in the last several months*).

Edited by spenser1058
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1 hour ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Okay so it's hard to follow but the tree was cut down right? Now the question is who cut the tree down and why? And what I mean by that is the owner of the property cut it down just because or is there development getting ready to happen that we don't know about. Is there any reason that a property gets trees cut down other than development?

 

1 hour ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I just wonder why a developer would do that without there being emotion for an imminent development. I'm not necessarily a tree hugger but that is a strange move on a property like that.

 

And very quickly speaking on trees one of the things I love about Lake Eola in downtown Orlando along Central is some of those older trees that provide shade and coolness. I wish we would plant more of them instead of palm trees but anyway that's a different conversation.

 

1 hour ago, dcluley98 said:

Well, the property owner may have thought that it would become a potential problem for future plans of development or cost associated with having to move it or change the design to accommodate it.  Or affect the resale value of the property, potentially or timeline of a sale or development. 

Any real developer would know that you can't just go around removing trees without a permit.  But they probably figured they would "take care of the problem" without following the local laws and ordinances. 

There's a saying in the development world "easier to ask for forgiveness instead of permission".  I suspect they thought the tree was going to be in the way.  I doubt any development is imminent or they would boot the tenants in those other buildings.

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So in 2019, FL legislature usurped Home Rule once again and basically forbade municipalities from requiring tree permits on residential property.  I'm assuming since this is isn't strictly residential, it doesn't apply, but wouldn't shock me if there was some way to basically read the context for mixed use and they're willing to take the chance in court.

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27 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

So in 2019, FL legislature usurped Home Rule once again and basically forbade municipalities from requiring tree permits on residential property.  I'm assuming since this is isn't strictly residential, it doesn't apply, but wouldn't shock me if there was some way to basically read the context for mixed use and they're willing to take the chance in court.

Sad, but true.

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On 10/6/2021 at 9:57 PM, AndyPok1 said:

So in 2019, FL legislature usurped Home Rule once again and basically forbade municipalities from requiring tree permits on residential property.  I'm assuming since this is isn't strictly residential, it doesn't apply, but wouldn't shock me if there was some way to basically read the context for mixed use and they're willing to take the chance in court.

Nah dude, the legislation is clear. If the owner tried to use that rule to justify their actions they are illiterate or lying. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
21 minutes ago, GregoryMCSE said:

Anyone know anything?  Is this project dead in the water?  

After what they did to The Tree, the owner of that lot should be drawn, quartered, hung and nuclear waste spread around the lot. May a curse be spread on his issue to last for ten generations.

I’m not serious because I oppose capital punishment but he should lose any rights to develop anything for the remainder of his career. In short, should he rot, no one would care.

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12 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

After what they did to The Tree, the owner of that lot should be drawn, quartered, hung and nuclear waste spread around the lot. May a curse be spread on his issue to last for ten generations.

I’m not serious because I oppose capital punishment but he should lose any rights to develop anything for the remainder of his career. In short, should he rot, no one would care.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Even though I thought it was unreasonable to expect this lot to be developed around the tree, I was all for efforts to relocate it. That the developer "accidentally" took down the tree without a permit just as a campaign to move it was mounting reeks of the worst kind of cynical, self-serving disregard for the community. I would appreciate some local investigative journalism calling this out for what it was.

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1 minute ago, uncreativeusername said:

I agree wholeheartedly.

Even though I thought it was unreasonable to expect this lot to be developed around the tree, I was all for efforts to relocate it. That the developer "accidentally" took down the tree without a permit just as a campaign to move it was mounting reeks of the worst kind of cynical, self-serving disregard for the community. I would appreciate some local investigative journalism calling this out for what it was.

Sorry, the Sentinel was too busy making another "Which is better Sunpass or Epass" article with no conclusive decision.  Their hands are tied.

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