389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[Uncommon]

16 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

The suggestion we were embracing here was to MOVE the tree, not sacrifice a high rise building in favor of it.

Also. I cannot fathom how Zoi House represented "desperately needed" housing of any kind, high density or otherwise.

That building if completed, would be for home for very high income earners only. 

It's not like we'd have a bunch of working class, Joe Sixpacks buying those $500K or better luxury pads.

At any rate, the issue here is that no effort was made to see if the tree could be relocated, not that it should have prevented construction.

That having been said, I still hope Zoi never gets built and something scaled down ends up there. 

Move the tree on whose dime exactly? Certainly not yours.

And just about ANY multi family housing is desperately needed in Orlando. The more supply there is, the less demand there is. Across the board, more housing is a net positive. Not sure how anyone sensible can argue otherwise. 

52 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

If you think nothing can ever change, it never will. Also, Fulton County is in fact considered an urban county. I could tell you all the social issues that supposedly could not be changed right up until they were (see marriage equality).

On the urban front, it was once believed it would be impossible to provide clean drinking water in our cities. Today, places like Flint that don’t have that are outliers.

Before the Clean Air and Water acts, we were told pollution was unavoidable in cities. Beijing is still living with that, but in the US today there would be a revolution if we returned to those days.

We can have tall buildings and tall trees too. Le Corbusier was a big believer in that.

Spenser, why are you introducing red herrings? And how do they impact the discussion that a single tree is seemingly more important than a potential high rise that can house thousands of people?

[prahaboheme]

Tree discussion aside (as there is already a dedicated thread to this in the coffeehouse where those who wish to discuss it can) — this is a perfect location for high density development with height around 450 or much, much higher. 
I don’t like what the developer did either and think it was pretty sleazy. As Uncommon would say, it was a “Karen” move.  That doesn’t mean that individuals with personal vendettas who wish to see the project fail for a “fine and dandy” mid rise makes logical sense.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by prahaboheme

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Move the tree on whose dime exactly? Certainly not yours.

And just about ANY multi family housing is desperately needed in Orlando. The more supply there is, the less demand there is. Across the board, more housing is a net positive. Not sure how anyone sensible can argue otherwise. 

Spenser, why are you introducing red herrings? And how do they impact the discussion that a single tree is seemingly more important than a potential high rise that can house thousands of people?

The city was going to pay for the move.

Thought everyone understood that.

They were talking about calling in an expert from a company in Texas to give them a price quote,

Sorry, but I just don't see high density housing for millionaires, many of them who probably wouldn't even live there full time anyway, as a pressing need for any community, ours included.  

.

Edited October 29, 2021 by JFW657

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

Tree discussion aside (as there is already a dedicated thread to this in the coffeehouse where those who wish to discuss it can) — this is a perfect location for high density development with height around 450 or much, much higher. 
I don’t like what the developer did either and think it was pretty sleazy. As Uncommon would say, it was a “Karen” move.  That doesn’t mean that individuals with personal vendettas who wish to see the project fail for a “fine and dandy” mid rise makes logical sense.

Wait... so you actually think that my opposition to Zoi House is based on some kind of personal vendetta?

Against who.... you???    

You have certainly revealed some very interesting things about your own mindset here. 

Look... people disagree on things. 

It doesn't mean anything personal.

You thnk that a couple of boring, tacky looking two story buildings should have been preserved so they could occupy one corner of the most significant intersection in DTO. I do not happen to agree. 

No. Big. Deal.

I think that the owner of the ZH parcel should have given the city more time to see if the beautful old oak tree on their property could have been moved. You do not agree.

No. Big. Deal.  

Relax.

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Move the tree on whose dime exactly? Certainly not yours.

And just about ANY multi family housing is desperately needed in Orlando. The more supply there is, the less demand there is. Across the board, more housing is a net positive. Not sure how anyone sensible can argue otherwise. 

Spenser, why are you introducing red herrings? And how do they impact the discussion that a single tree is seemingly more important than a potential high rise that can house thousands of people?

I’m hardly introducing red herrings. Too many people here do incredibly little due diligence about what becomes of downtown’s quality of life when developers throw up yet another soulless building. And I haven’t seen you pining for actual affordable housing downtown - it’s all about vastly overpriced boxes.

What’s even funnier is the churn in these buildings - as soon as possible, they can’t wait to get out of them to move to… Wadeview Park with a zillion trees! That applies to posters right on this board.

One of the reasons I’ve lived downtown longer than most people on this board (and will be returning in 16 days!) is that we’ve worked hard to keep an urban lifestyle with all of the amenities like parks and trees that make the area east of Rosalind a little slice of heaven. At the same time, we had affordable high-rise housing (think about all the senior towers) long before it was even trendy. 

We welcomed Modera, Capital Plaza (1, 2 and 3 if it ever comes).

There’s nothing mutually exclusive about tall trees and tall buildings. It just takes planning and preservation.

Meanwhile, there’s nothing stopping them  from building the next Empire State Building along Garland. Just like there was nothing stopping them from building highrises along Orange Ave (that’s what was envisioned to be there). Instead they built stubbies in a hurry instead of something remarkable. Too many people on this board, any time a developer proposes dreck, says, “please, sir, may I have some more?”

And all you folks who say government cannot have any say of in that shouldn’t say a word if someone drops a massage parlor or landfill in your neighborhood. 

Just like you’d fight against that, those of us who love downtown and have lived here for the better part of 35 years are just as entitled to a say. We thought we’d been successful when the Frederick restrictions were passed. Little did we know that we’d have a city government just a couple of decades later that would cave to whatever filled the pockets of out of town developers fastest.

Orlando is better than this. Make downtown special again.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

25 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Wait... so you actually think that my opposition to Zoi House is based on some kind of personal vendetta?

Against who.... you???    

You have certainly revealed some very interesting things about your own mindset here. 

Look... people disagree on things. 

It doesn't mean anything personal.

You thnk that a couple of boring, tacky looking two story buildings should have been preserved so they could occupy one corner of the most significant intersection in DTO. I do not happen to agree. 

No. Big. Deal.

I think that the owner of the ZH parcel should have given the city more time to see if the beautful old oak tree on their property could have been moved. You do not agree.

No. Big. Deal.  

Relax.

What do the merits of Woolworths and McCorys have to do with this discussion and why do you continually bring it up?

As for the rest of what you’ve said — total nonsense. 

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

The city was going to pay for the move.

Thought everyone understood that.

They were talking about calling in an expert from a company in Texas to give them a price quote,

Sorry, but I just don't see high density housing for millionaires, many of them who probably wouldn't even live there full time anyway, as a pressing need for any community, ours included.  

.

Yes, because there are many millionaires living in downtown Orlando in Vue, 55 West, Modera, and the other residential towers downtown.

Like I said, more multi family housing is a net positive. If you seriously can’t understand that, then this conversation is over.

And I call BS that the city was planning to foot the bill for moving the tree. If that’s true and there is undeniable evidence there of, well then it just makes what the developer did silly, unnecessary, ill-conceived, and fiscally stupid. Not sure why the developer would pay themselves to trim the tree when the city was willing to pay to relocate the tree. Something isn’t adding up.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

What do the merits of Woolworths and McCorys have to do with this discussion and why do you continually bring it up?

As for the rest of what you’ve said — total nonsense. 

I was just using it as an example of two things we disagree on and how you are free to feel those two buildings should have been preserved just as I am free to feel the tree should have been moved.

Like I said.... No. Big. Deal. 

[dcluley98]

The parks department was in an active feasability study and cost estimating to relocate it. The tree was not "diseased" haha. It was in a review to perhaps be moved and there were companies puting estimates to that for potential sites. I never saw the reports or estimates and don't know if real dollars were allocated for the move, but it was definitely in process according to Andy Kittsley. 

The developer acted in bad faith hiring a removal contractor to cut it down with no permit and no consultation of the parks department.  

Basically, they took the avenue of the fine won't be as bad as the other financial consequence of the property value. I mean, I wish that the move happened. But I understand why this happened. 

Rather selfish on the developer's part, but unsurprising. 

I will also say that this design has been garbage to begin with IMO and I don't know why so many people are clamoring for this to get built other than sheer height. Still an uninspired BB design with an oversized pedestal and lack of street activation, weird balconies, and not much to make it stand out. And as others mentioned it will be for higher income people, not some altruistic high density workforce housing, and will also displace several current long-standing businesses in the other building that will need to be removed. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by dcluley98

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Yes, because there are many millionaires living in downtown Orlando in Vue, 55 West, Modera, and the other residential towers downtown.

Like I said, more multi family housing is a net positive. If you seriously can’t understand that, then this conversation is over.

Those towers you listed are nothing special. 

55 W. from what I've heard, is closer to a trashy frat house.

What income level do you think owning a unit in Zoi House would have required?

Probably a considerable amount more than The Vue or Modera, etc. 

And maybe that is why it has not come to fruition.

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

And I call BS that the city was planning to foot the bill for moving the tree. If that’s true and there is undeniable evidence there of, well then it just makes what the developer did silly, unnecessary, ill-conceived, and fiscally stupid. Not sure why the developer would pay themselves to trim the tree when the city was willing to pay to relocate the tree. Something isn’t adding up.

There are emails from the city to dcluley, and I have one or two sent to myself, in which a city official is discussing plans to get an estimate from a tree moving company....

Here's a link to one in The Coffee House tree thread...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/120710-the-tree/?do=findComment&comment=1759191

There are better ones further back in this thread (I think), but you'll have to go back and find them yourself.

But I am telling you, the city was talking about possibly moving it. 

You can believe that or don't. 

IDC.

[prahaboheme]

7 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Those towers you listed are nothing special. 

55 W. from what I've heard, is closer to a trashy frat house.

What income level do you think owning a unit in Zoi House would have required?

Probably a considerable amount more than The Vue or Modera, etc. 

And maybe that is why it has not come to fruition.

There are emails from the city to dcluley, and I have one or two sent to myself, in which a city official is discussing plans to get an estimate from a tree moving company....

Here's a link to one in The Coffee House tree thread...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/120710-the-tree/?do=findComment&comment=1759191

There are better ones further back in this thread (I think), but you'll have to go back and find them yourself.

But I am telling you, the city was talking about possibly moving it. 

You can believe that or don't. 

IDC.

Developer won — If those talks were serious I’d love to see what Orlando —the City—did to ensure this tree was able to endure. 

21 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The parks department was in an active feasability study and cost estimating to relocate it. The tree was not "diseased" haha. It was in a review to perhaps be moved and there were companies puting estimates to that for potential sites. I never saw the reports or estimates and don't know if real dollars were allocated for the move, but it was definitely in process according to Andy Kitteresly. 

The developer acted in bad faith hiring a removal contractor to cut it down with no permit and no consultation of the parks department.  

Basically, they took the avenue of the fine won't be as bad as the other financial consequence of the property value. I mean, I wish that the move happened. But I understand why this happened. 

Rather selfish on the developer's part, but unsurprising. 

I will also say that this design has been garbage to begin with IMO and I don't know why so many people are clamoring for this to get built other than sheer height. Still an uninspired BB design with an oversized pedestal and lack of street activation, weird balconies, and not much to make it stand out. And as others mentioned it will be for higher income people, not some altruistic high density workforce housing, and will also displace several current long-standing businesses in the other building that will need to be removed. 

Design not withstanding- because it’s conceptual - how did it happen then?

Do developers have that ability to come in and exercise their right to their property to cut down trees when under pressure in Orlando?

Of course they do. 

 

[dcluley98]

It happened because they ignored permitting. They do not have a unilateral right to remove that tree because they own the property. The property lies within a district that requires a permit for tree removal and they did not follow that protocol. They will be punished, but maybe not severely enough to prevent this from happening.  I think it is the fact that the financial penalty or otherwise penalty was not severe enough to prevent rogue behavior of the developer. 

It is not a property rights issue, it is a permitting and process issue. These laws and protocols exist for a reason in the AEC industry. Other people who work in the industry such as @Codypet or @ChiDev feel free to chime in.  I know ChiDev is somebody who would know the rules and follow them, even if they thought the protection of the tree was not aligned with their development goals. This situaton seems like a property owner with lofty goals and not actual real plans and financing doing something to try to protect their financial interest and/or sell the property. Not an actual real developer with a plan. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by dcluley98

[jliv]

Well, if you want to properly express your outrage at this, better to do it at these ar**holes in Miami than on this forum: http://theweintraubcompanies.com/contact.html (They also own the adjacent building hosting Fratelli's).   Or you could just hatebomb the CEO on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avi-weintraub/ and call out the hypocrisy of him being a board member of a non-profit named "Heal the Planet": https://healtheplanet.com/avi-weintraub/

Edited October 30, 2021 by jliv

[Uncommon]

9 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Those towers you listed are nothing special. 

55 W. from what I've heard, is closer to a trashy frat house.

What income level do you think owning a unit in Zoi House would have required?

Probably a considerable amount more than The Vue or Modera, etc. 

And maybe that is why it has not come to fruition.

There are emails from the city to dcluley, and I have one or two sent to myself, in which a city official is discussing plans to get an estimate from a tree moving company....

Here's a link to one in The Coffee House tree thread...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/120710-the-tree/?do=findComment&comment=1759191

There are better ones further back in this thread (I think), but you'll have to go back and find them yourself.

But I am telling you, the city was talking about possibly moving it. 

You can believe that or don't. 

IDC.

That’s my point exactly. Zoi House is nothing special. It isn’t luxury apartments or high standard living. Last I heard, it was condos, similar to 55 West. No millionaires would be living there; that’s absurd. It likely would house the same income levels of the towers I previously mentioned. Not wanting to have 300 units of market rate housing built because of a damn tree, or even worse, because you want a smaller, scaled down version with a different design is the height of lunacy.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, Uncommon said:

That’s my point exactly. Zoi House is nothing special. It isn’t luxury apartments or high standard living. Last I heard, it was condos, similar to 55 West. No millionaires would be living there; that’s absurd. It likely would house the same income levels of the towers I previously mentioned. Not wanting to have 300 units of market rate housing built because of a damn tree, or even worse, because you want a smaller, scaled down version with a different design is the height of lunacy.

And you have every right to disagree with me on the tree, the size of the building or any other subject.

But getting all annoyed and upset over it and insinuating that I'm a lunatic because I felt that a beautiful old work of Mother Nature ("a damn tree") was worth the cost (to the city) to move so it could continue to grace us with its beauty, or because I feel that the original ZH design was too massive... is ITSELF a better example of "the height of lunacy". 

No less so than getting upset at someone for being glad the Jaymont block was leveled and replaced with the modern, urban looking mixed-use complex we have there now. 

No reason to take all this stuff so seriously because it's all just opinion.

None of us individually have the power to make any of the things we discuss happen or not happen.

Realx. 

5 hours ago, jliv said:

Well, if you want to properly express your outrage at this, better to do it at these ar**holes in Miami than on this forum: http://theweintraubcompanies.com/contact.html (They also own the adjacent building hosting Fratelli's).   Or you could just hatebomb the CEO on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avi-weintraub/ and call out the hypocrisy of him being a board member of a non-profit named "Heal the Planet": https://healtheplanet.com/avi-weintraub/

Oh the irony.  

[prahaboheme]

50 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

And you have every right to disagree with me on the tree, the size of the building or any other subject.

But getting all annoyed and upset over it and insinuating that I'm a lunatic because I felt that a beautiful old work of Mother Nature ("a damn tree") was worth the cost (to the city) to move so it could continue to grace us with its beauty, or because I feel that the original ZH design was too massive... is ITSELF a better example of "the height of lunacy". 

No less so than getting upset at someone for being glad the Jaymont block was leveled and replaced with the modern, urban looking mixed-use complex we have there now. 

No reason to take all this stuff so seriously because it's all just opinion.

None of us individually have the power to make any of the things we discuss happen or not happen.

Realx. 

Oh the irony.  

Again, no one is getting mad about your opinion of the Jaymont block.  Truly — no one cares. You just can’t stop opining about it and then claim others have a problem with your viewpoint. It’s odd really.

[Uncommon]

12 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

And you have every right to disagree with me on the tree, the size of the building or any other subject.

But getting all annoyed and upset over it and insinuating that I'm a lunatic because I felt that a beautiful old work of Mother Nature ("a damn tree") was worth the cost (to the city) to move so it could continue to grace us with its beauty, or because I feel that the original ZH design was too massive... is ITSELF a better example of "the height of lunacy". 

No less so than getting upset at someone for being glad the Jaymont block was leveled and replaced with the modern, urban looking mixed-use complex we have there now. 

No reason to take all this stuff so seriously because it's all just opinion.

None of us individually have the power to make any of the things we discuss happen or not happen.

Realx. 

Oh the irony.  

So let me get this straight: 

You decree without a shadow of a doubt that the “city was going to pay for the move” of the tree but absent definitive, undeniable proof, then say “you’ll have to go find [the evidence] yourself.”

Then, despite the original plans calling for market rate condos, you say that  Zoi House is “high density housing for millionaires” and won’t benefit the citizens of a region that is among the fastest-growing, rent-burdened in the nation, before pivoting to why hundreds of homes should not be built because they don’t suit your personal tastes.

Finally, you imply that despite your faulty reasoning and lack of sensible arguments, those who disagree with you are being emotional and need to “realx.”

Did I get all of that? If so, I can assure you, I am not upset or annoyed. The only sentiments here are pity and incredulity.

[JFW657]

6 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Again, no one is getting mad about your opinion of the Jaymont block.  Truly — no one cares. You just can’t stop opining about it and then claim others have a problem with your viewpoint. It’s odd really.

Pure, unadulterated BS, but in considering the source, I'm not surprised. 

As soon as it was posted that the tree came down you posted.... 

Quote

Let’s see how our “Save the Tree” friends feel about this who seemingly think that private developers have the right to bulldoze down anything.

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118600-389-north-aka-zoi-house-41-story-mixed-use-proposed/?do=findComment&comment=1766213

And I'm supposed to not believe you were referring to the Jaymont block?

Puh-lease. 

[prahaboheme]

10 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Pure, unadulterated BS, but in considering the source, I'm not surprised. 

As soon as it was posted that the tree came down you posted.... 

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118600-389-north-aka-zoi-house-41-story-mixed-use-proposed/?do=findComment&comment=1766213

And I'm supposed to not believe you were referring to the Jaymont block?

Puh-lease. 

You’re free to believe whatever you chose and make assumptions based on those beliefs. It seems to forum is finally waking up to your consistent badgering. Done here.

[JFW657]

8 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

So let me get this straight: 

You decree without a shadow of a doubt that the “city was going to pay for the move” of the tree but absent definitive, undeniable proof, then say “you’ll have to go find [the evidence] yourself.”

Then, despite the original plans calling for market rate condos, you say that  Zoi House is “high density housing for millionaires” and won’t benefit the citizens of a region that is among the fastest-growing, rent-burdened in the nation, before pivoting to why hundreds of homes should not be built because they don’t suit your personal tastes.

Finally, you imply that despite your faulty reasoning and lack of sensible arguments, those who disagree with you are being emotional and need to “realx.”

Did I get all of that? If so, I can assure you, I am not upset or annoyed. The only sentiments here are pity and incredulity.

No, you didn't "get" any of it.

What you did was resort to exaggeration and hyperbole.

Two of the classic signs that someone is agitated and upset.

I never "decree(d) without a shadow of a doubt" that the city was going to pay for moving the tree. 

I stated their intention was to do so and offered evidence in the form of another poster's email from the city that they were considering it. 

What more do you want... a signed affidavit?

If I was wrong about the target market for Zoi House units, then rebut it with some kind of source and try to keep the emotional responses in check.

Telling someone you feel pity and incredulity over their statements about a subject such as this, is a sign that you are agitated and upset.

If I was wrong about Zoi House, prove it calmly and rationally with facts and try to keep the vituperative personal attacks out of it.

 

 

13 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

You’re free to believe whatever you chose and make assumptions based on those beliefs. It seems to forum is finally waking up to your consistent badgering. Done here.

Shall I quote some statements that suggest the same thing re: yourself?

What were you referring to in that post if not the Jaymont block?

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

No, you didn't "get" any of it.

What you did was resort to exaggeration and hyperbole.

Two of the classic signs that someone is agitated and upset.

I never "decree(d) without a shadow of a doubt" that the city was going to pay for moving the tree. 

I stated their intention was to do so and offered evidence in the form of another poster's email from the city that they were considering it. 

What more do you want... a signed affidavit?

If I was wrong about the target market for Zoi House units, then rebut it with some kind of source and try to keep the emotional responses in check.

Telling someone you feel pity and incredulity over their statements about a subject such as this, is a sign that you are agitated and upset.

If I was wrong about Zoi House, prove it calmly and rationally with facts and try to keep the vituperative personal attacks out of it.

 

 

Shall I quote some statements that suggest the same thing re: yourself?

What were you referring to in that post if not the Jaymont block?

Now who’s emotional? It seems I struck a nerve, what with your stark change in tone a clear sign that you are the one who is failing to keep their emotions in check.

I typically don’t like agreeing with prahaboheme but it’s hard not to co-sign the notion that your inherent posting style (sarcasm, constant, unnecessary challenging, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering) has devolved to irksome from plain old tiresome. Hell, I can already predict your response because you’ve used it so much and with so many people: “if you don’t like what I have to say, then put me on the ignore list.”

 Whatever. I’m not interested in continuing this discussion. Final salvo: yes, save the tree where reasonable. Move the tree where financially feasible. But overall, high density housing in Orlando should be the priority in a region that surely lacks it.

End of story.

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Now who’s emotional? It seems I struck a nerve, what with your stark change in tone a clear sign that you are the one who is failing to keep their emotions in check.

I typically don’t like agreeing with prahaboheme but it’s hard not to co-sign the notion that your inherent posting style (sarcasm, constant, unnecessary challenging, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering) has devolved to irksome from plain old tiresome. Hell, I can already predict your response because you’ve used it so much and with so many people: “if you don’t like what I have to say, then put me on the ignore list.”

 Whatever. I’m not interested in continuing this discussion. Final salvo: yes, save the tree where reasonable. Move the tree where financially feasible. But overall, high density housing in Orlando should be the priority in a region that surely lacks it.

End of story.

Now who's emotional?

Still sounds like you are. 

Unnescessary challenging?

This is a discussion forum.

Ideas get put forth and sometimes challenged.

It's called debate.

Discussion.

You accuse me of "...sarcasm, constant, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering..."

I only get sarcastic with people when they take a similar tone with me. 

Last year in the Local and Florida politics thread, I posted this op ed piece which I suggested was worth reading and offered an interesting and opposing POV to the current social unrest that was happening at the time...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690602

You responded with the very same "...sarcasm, constant, unnecessary challenging, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering..." you are now accusing me of. 

You kept on pressing me over and over again, to add my own comments to the piece, trying to foment an argument, even though I pointed out how I had added my own thoughts numerous times. At one point, you actually called me a "coward" for supposedly not succumbing to your demands....

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690721

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690747

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690808

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690815

Or in another thread, you interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with someone else and turned it into a verbal shoving match...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695380

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695407

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695429
 

Thou dost protest too much.

IOW... pot, kettle, etc.

.

Edited October 30, 2021 by JFW657

[Uncommon]

9 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Now who's emotional?

Still sounds like you are. 

Unnescessary challenging?

This is a discussion forum.

Ideas get put forth and sometimes challenged.

It's called debate.

Discussion.

You accuse me of "...sarcasm, constant, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering..."

I only get sarcastic with people when they take a similar tone with me. 

Last year in the Local and Florida politics thread, I posted this op ed piece which I suggested was worth reading and offered an interesting and opposing POV to the current social unrest that was happening at the time...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690602

You responded with the very same "...sarcasm, constant, unnecessary challenging, veiled insults, a refusal to admit when you’re wrong, an ability to see the opposing argument, and frequent bickering..." you are now accusing me of. 

You kept on pressing me over and over again, to add my own comments to the piece, trying to foment an argument, even though I pointed out how I had added my own thoughts numerous times. At one point, you actually called me a "coward" for supposedly not succumbing to your demands....

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690721

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690747

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690808

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/118577-local-and-florida-politics/?do=findComment&comment=1690815

Or in another thread, you interjected yourself into a conversation I was having with someone else and turned it into a verbal shoving match...

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695380

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695407

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/51723-downtown-orlando-project-discussion/?do=findComment&comment=1695429
 

Thou dost protest too much.

IOW... pot, kettle, etc.

.

Jesus, get a life lol you clearly have way too much time on your hands. How long did it take you to dig all of this up, all for nothing since I won’t even bother reading it?

Pot meet kettle? You’re the one that typically stirs up drama, arguments, and consternation on these forums. If I’m not mistaken, you have had several contentious discussions with just about every single poster on UP. I just have happened to be the untimely recipient of your boomer wrath today. Who will it be tomorrow?

Don’t answer that. I’m not interested.

[GregoryMCSE]

We all want what is best for Orlando. We have much in common. Let's all try to get along. Everyone has been posting here forever and I respect you all.  Let’s squash this and move on.

[JFW657]

9 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Jesus, get a life lol you clearly have way too much time on your hands. How long did it take you to dig all of this up, all for nothing since I won’t even bother reading it?

Pot meet kettle? You’re the one that typically stirs up drama, arguments, and consternation on these forums. If I’m not mistaken, you have had several contentious discussions with just about every single poster on UP. I just have happened to be the untimely recipient of your boomer wrath today. Who will it be tomorrow?

Wrong.

Only you, spenser and prohobaheme.

And the little spats with spenser are never serious and only about the Jaymont block and his Buddy obsession.

And he gives as good as he gets.

10 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Don’t answer that. I’m not interested.

Yeah, right.  

You jumed on that in a matter of minutes. 

Just now, GregoryMCSE said:

We all want what is best for Orlando. We have much in common. Let's all try to get along. Everyone has been posting here forever and I respect you all.  Let’s squash this and move on.

It is winding down.  

Just about out of gas.