389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[JFW657]

56 minutes ago, DreS0803 said:

City has some great things to say about Zoi House. Looks like their for it being the tallest building in Orlando. 

“ARB staff is not opposed to the light boxes, or to roof top amenity decks, but staff also believes the proposed tallest building in the city should have a more distinctive and unique skyline appearance.”

Translation: "Where's the typical Orlando gimmicky roof?"

[dcluley98]

The review actually mentioned specific design features that they wish would be incorporated in lieu of a "typical Orlando gimmicky roof" such as a famous Visor, a Light-box, or similar crown. They specifically suggested redesigning the building facades so that all sides incorporated curved sweeping lines found in the balcony alignment and continuing that above the top floor into an apex feature. This could be quite interesting, depending upon the execution, however, it IS Baker Barrios, so we will have to see. 

 

[orange87]

Do you guys think this gets built, and at the proposed height? If so, when do you think construction will start?

[spenser1058]

19 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The review actually mentioned specific design features that they wish would be incorporated in lieu of a "typical Orlando gimmicky roof" such as a famous Visor, a Light-box, or similar crown. They specifically suggested redesigning the building facades so that all sides incorporated curved sweeping lines found in the balcony alignment and continuing that above the top floor into an apex feature. This could be quite interesting, depending upon the execution, however, it IS Baker Barrios, so we will have to see. 

 

A question for our experts: is it usual for an architectural firm to be essentially the default choice for such an extended period of time? 

I know Reynolds, Smith and Hills sort of ruled the roost for a while in the '80's but isn't BB's 15 minutes of fame due to be over soon?

[orlandouprise]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

A question for our experts: is it usual for an architectural firm to be essentially the default choice for such an extended period of time? 

I know Reynolds, Smith and Hills sort of ruled the roost for a while in the '80's but isn't BB's 15 minutes of fame due to be over soon?

I sure hope so. I like the building, its decent. The pedestal is so bad though... Cant win them all.  Start construction already! 475'!!

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

The review actually mentioned specific design features that they wish would be incorporated in lieu of a "typical Orlando gimmicky roof" such as a famous Visor, a Light-box, or similar crown. They specifically suggested redesigning the building facades so that all sides incorporated curved sweeping lines found in the balcony alignment and continuing that above the top floor into an apex feature. This could be quite interesting, depending upon the execution, however, it IS Baker Barrios, so we will have to see. 

True.

But on the other hand, it could also be a recipe for something outlandish looking.

Nothing I dislike worse in building design than something that looks like they were trying to hard to make it look unique or interesting.

Sometimes there's a fine line between unique/interesting and just odd looking.

Speaking strictly for myself, I'd rather have a tall, sleek rectangle with some interesting surface features/setbacks etc, and a plain, flat roof, than something that just looks weird.

[dcluley98]

31 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Speaking strictly for myself, I'd rather have a tall, sleek rectangle with some interesting surface features/setbacks etc, and a plain, flat roof, than something that just looks weird.

 

I agree with you on that. They don't have to be mutually exclusive, however. One of the things driving this is that it is a residential building, so the developer is working with exterior balconies on all sides for sales points, and an amenity deck up top. This isn't going to be a sleek, glass and material, utilitarian and statement structure that an office building would be. We will not get another one of those until the CRE market recovers here or we get significant business investment downtown. 

What I liked best about this proposal was "The ground floor storefront along Orange Avenue with 20-feet of floor to ceiling glass will be very inviting and should activate the N. Orange Ave. and E. Livingston St. corner."  Which would be FANTASTIC for the area and really tie into the other buildings, the transit stations, and CV there and redevelop Midtown Orange Avenue on a human scale. I also like the absolute height as opposed to the other stubby developments we have seen with more block massing and multi-phase proposals. 

What I dislike is the huge un-interrupted pedestal facing east and south, the crown, and the less inspired design of the facade facing east. The trees on the pedestal and amenities on that level seem decent too, but for a building of that size are kind of off given the scale. The Orange Ave side looks great, but there is no setback and it will be like a giant canyon there. Also, the Oak tree (can they buy more land around for parking instead of that pedestal and SAVE THE TREE?) I would like to see them have more property to have some walking space and transition around the building without a 9-story concrete monstrosity of a pedestal on all sides, especially considering the connection to the Courthouse and the Lymmo loop in the area. That is definitely NOT ideal.

Overall, not a bad proposal, per se, but could be really great if they did the right things to it!

Edited November 15, 2018 by dcluley98

[JFW657]

Agree 100% about the tree. Didn't want to be seen as a Johnny One Note, given how often I've harangued on the subject of saving trees.... 

[prahaboheme]

The base pedestal doesn’t look bad from the NW perspective although the SW perspective is pretty disappointing.  This will loom pretty large over those 1-2 story buildings immediately south.  It looks like they decided on minimal architectural details for the south side in anticipation that one day it’ll be blocked from view by other structures (although that could take decades).

[Jernigan]

Growthspotter has a new article on this project.  

[dcluley98]

They really cranked up the propaganda machine on that one, LOL. 

[DreS0803]

MPB Report:

 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2018/11/MPBStaffReport2018-11_MPL2018-10066.pdf

[dcluley98]

This has legs and money behind it. This isn't some random Vertical Medical City rhetorical marketing pipe-dream. 

I expect this to be built and I hope the ARB encourages the architect and developer toward a meaningful new tallest building. This CAN be great. 

[Tim3167]

So any updated thoughts on the early talk that the developer would likely reduce height as it moved through the permitting process?

[DreS0803]

29 minutes ago, Tim3167 said:

So any updated thoughts on the early talk that the developer would likely reduce height as it moved through the permitting process?

I think it’ll happen. Looks like the city if for it being the tallest building as long as it’s unique. I guess we just have to wait for the FAA.

[sunshine]

City staff, board wowed by new design for Zoi House skyscraper in downtown Orlando

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/downtown-orlando-developments/gs-arb-meeting-20181115-story.html#nt=oft03a-1la1

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hmmm...I am thinking they have low standard or doesnt travel alot out of USA.

[JFW657]

14 minutes ago, sunshine said:

City staff, board wowed by new design for Zoi House skyscraper in downtown Orlando

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hmmm...I am thinking they have low standard or doesnt travel alot out of USA.

Why? It's a terrific looking building and compared to everything else downtown it does have a lot of wow factor. So it isn't the Shanghai Tower or the Burj Khalifa. No reason to look down at it. For Orlando it's a real prize. Nothing low standard about it afaic.

[sunshine]

It doesnt have to be the next Shanghai Tower or the Burj tower, but to be the tallest and representing a city, I am expecting a Frost Bank tower,  US bank tower or RSA tower, instead of a boxy generic every city  basic design. Cant believe they are excited for some off set balcony.  Even the current Suntrust building has better distinctive and recognizable feature than that.  Orlando deserves something better.

[prahaboheme]

12 minutes ago, sunshine said:

It doesnt have to be the next Shanghai Tower or the Burj tower, but to be the tallest and representing a city, I am expecting a Frost Bank tower,  US bank tower or RSA tower, instead of a boxy generic every city  basic design. Cant believe they are excited for some off set balcony.  Even the current Suntrust building has better distinctive and recognizable feature than that.  Orlando deserves something better.

Considering that Orlando hasn’t had a new tallest in 30 years, let’s just get this thing built to break the perception that the FAA continues to control the height of the skyline. It’ll help to bring some decent balance between the CBD and courthouse areas. Also, the building facade will be largely obscured from view by the BOA tower (at least from several angles) so if anything it’s a density booster.

[sunshine]

I think FAA still has to bless this, per the article.

[bqknight]

I think the tower portion of it is awesome. The crown can do with some tweaks, which they asked for and the base is meh - but I would be THRILLED if this got built. 

[JFW657]

The part of the article that concerns me was the mention of ARB's recommendation of a possible spire.

Here comes another gimmicky roof.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, sunshine said:

It doesnt have to be the next Shanghai Tower or the Burj tower, but to be the tallest and representing a city, I am expecting a Frost Bank tower,  US bank tower or RSA tower, instead of a boxy generic every city  basic design. Cant believe they are excited for some off set balcony.  Even the current Suntrust building has better distinctive and recognizable feature than that.  Orlando deserves something better.

Well sir, taste as we know, is a very subjective thing. IMO, two of the three buildings you listed are amongst the tackiest looking examples of arcraptecture I've ever seen. 

Especially that Frost Bank monstrosity...

Talk about tacky looking. Yuck. 

And that roof... 

Or to borrow a phrase from Saddam Hussein... "the mother of all gimmicky roofs."

As for the RSA tower, there are two of them so I assume you meant this one...

Somewhat better looking than that first... thing, but still doesn't look like a residential building and doesn't look "Orlando" or even "Florida" to me.

I've always liked the US Bank tower, though it's way taller than Orlando will ever see of course, but given a choice between something similar looking and the current Zoi House proposal, I'll take the Zoi House as is any day.

But like I said, taste is subjective and this was all meant in the spirit of fun.

(Not 2/3 of fun) 

Re: the SunTrust roof... can't stand it. Always thought it looked like the building is wearing a silly paper hat. Not as bad as The Conquistador, but close to it. I've always wished they'd do a remodel of that building and clean up that roofline.

Something more like this:

[Dale]

Any surmise, any early indications that the FAA might be charitable ? 

BTW, years and years of reading stuff has me unsure of only two things: (1) why does everyone have autism these days and (2) does the FAA really have binding authority over building heights.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Dale

[dcluley98]

We have covered this a bunch of times.  Here is the applicable statute: http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0333/Sections/0333.07.html

Here is the zoning map: https://orlando.novusagenda.com/AgendaPublic/AttachmentViewer.ashx?AttachmentID=72144&ItemID=42436