389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[orange87]

3 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Tough guy definitely not,  but definitely fed up with intolerance. Your claiming private conversation but u put your conversation for everyone to read in a forum that everyone opines on. What do expect will happen? Just keep your intolerance in check or in the closet and continue to opine in a manner that everyone enjoys. If u can’t do that then Alabama is about a 4 1/2 hour drive away you’ll find more like minded ppl there. 

 

[FLClarkKent]

53 minutes ago, orange87 said:

What I say to Spenser has to pass through you first? Do you realize how g@y that sounds? Why don't YOU go poof internet tough guy?

I'm assuming that when you wrote "how gay that sounds" you meant that it sounded perfectly reasonable, intelligent and even impeccably dressed. Because I know that in 2020, a reasonable person wouldn't use the word gay as an insult.  

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

What I say to Spenser has to pass through you first? Do you realize how g@y that sounds? Why don't YOU go poof internet tough guy?

... we’re really still using “gay” as an insult? In 2020? I admit my immature, stupid self did that in high school but c’mon, I assume you’re an adult. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but you’re using an offensive slur pretty boldly. Far be it from me to be PC or try to tell anyone what to do but try having some common decency. Otherwise, this becomes Reddit or Yahoo or some other disgusting forum where hideous scumbags reign without an ounce of decorum.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Uncommon

[orange87]

15 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

I'm assuming that when you wrote "how gay that sounds" you meant that it sounded perfectly reasonable, intelligent and even impeccably dressed. Because I know that in 2020, a reasonable person wouldn't use the word gay as an insult.  

 

9 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

... we’re really still using “gay” as an insult? In 2020? I admit my immature, stupid self did that in high school but c’mon, I assume you’re an adult. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but you’re using an offensive slur pretty boldly. Far be it from me to be PC or try to tell anyone what to do but try having some common decency. Otherwise, this becomes Reddit or Yahoo or some other disgusting forum where hideous scumbags reign without an ounce of decorum.

I didn't say gay is an insult. Stop projecting your own bigotry. I merely pointed out that a guy who acts like a defensive husband to another man on a forum sounds literally gay, which it does.

Edited December 18, 2019 by orange87

[FLClarkKent]

7 minutes ago, orange87 said:

 

I didn't say gay is an insult. Stop projecting your own bigotry. I merely pointed out that a guy who acts like a defensive husband to another man on a forum sounds literally gay, which it does.

My dude, you used it as an insult.  When in a hole, just stop digging.

P.S. I'm gay.

[orange87]

1 minute ago, FLClarkKent said:

My dude, you used it as an insult.  When in a hole, just stop digging.

P.S. I'm gay.

I really don't care if you believe me or not. I don't owe you explanation.

P.S. Why are you telling me you're gay? Is that supposed to give you cred or something?

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I need not say anything else. I’ll let your stupid comments speak for themselves.

[spenser1058]

From CBS Sports

In case (like me) you don’t know who David Samson is, it turns out he knows all about baseball from the inside as the former president of the Marlins and many other stops before that:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Samson_(baseball)

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Interesting take Spense. I don’t entirely agree but he does bring up valid points that can be solved. 75 million is a number that can’t be ignored. If that number is broken down a target group can easily be identified. Also the gentleman states that no one likes to visit a stadium in the oppressive Florida heat. That’s so true because I flee into the shade every chance I get, but an indoor stadium will easily solve that.  Another point is that Tampa still has 8 years left on their lease, that’s not that far away not to mention Orlando has time. 8 years might be the time Orlando needs to put its bid together. Hey long did it take for the outrageous Orlando Magic idea to become fruition?
I do disagree however with Pat Williams that we should build a team from scratch. The markets between Tampa and Orlando are to close in proximity and even overlap. Probably better to poach the RAYS and some of their fans from Tampa, bolster it with a modest Orlando fan base and Seal it with 2% of the 75million visitors. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Urban Mail Carrier

[spenser1058]

The thing is, in all the studies done over the years that I’ve seen (and in my days working for Sen. Stuart, I also worked with the Sports Council and made lots of phone calls for Pat to snag the Magic, so I did get some insight) there simply has been no indication that theme park visitors are looking for sporting events. That’s not anti-sports btw, the same holds true for cultural events.

Here’s the thing: if tourists were going to be looking for something to do like a baseball game, wouldn’t the ones most likely to do it be the ones whose vacation is mostly spent laying on a beach? Somewhere we seem to have forgotten that tourism is also a major industry of Pinellas County (and to answer an earlier point, they have a TDT also, as does Hillsborough).

Further, their tourism gurus aren’t working 24/7 to keep their guests locked down on property like Disney and Universal do.

I’d also add as someone who was involved in the process, the mania to pull the Magic in was everywhere. The number of season ticket pledges was being broadcast on the news sometimes hourly and every politician was all over it.

The same during the effort at baseball by Linda and Glenda in the ‘90’s.

With the Dreamers, it’s been crickets since the first couple of days.

The reason I bring up minor league baseball is that, if it’s unlikely for the tourists to make up the core of fans, then it falls to the locals. I’m not sure why MLB would see the Nashville Sounds with 500,000 attending their games annually (I use them because I’m familiar with them, but they’re not even the most successful MiLB team) and then see Orlando, which has failed miserably at interest for years now, as the better bet.

Heck, even college baseball is a yawner here compared to the folks that turn out in Gainesville and Tally for their games.

I guess I just don’t understand how we’re a baseball city given the background. And if Pat Williams was so into baseball, why in the world didn’t he spearhead a move decades ago to start building it? For heaven’s sake, he sure did it with minor league hockey while he was with the Magic.

As Samson pointed out, this seemed more like a publicity stunt and something to keep Pat busy in his dotage than a serious effort.

One thing’s for sure, we’ll probably just have to wait to find out.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

57 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

 

Here’s the thing: if tourists were going to be looking for something to do like a baseball game, wouldn’t the ones most likely to do it be the ones whose vacation is mostly spent laying on a beach? Somewhere we seem to have forgotten that tourism is also a major industry of Pinellas County (and to answer an earlier point, they have a TDT also, as does Hillsborough).

 

 

 

 Seems like your already identifying a target group. I for one after spending hours at a theme park WILL NOT be interested in a baseball game. Seems logical that the ones who are spending time at the beach will likely take in a baseball game. Your case assumes that all tourists come solely for the theme parks. Not all visitors come for that, Orlando has a GiNormous Convention center industry. As a matter of fact 1.5 million ppl attended our convention center in 2018/2019 that’s 2 % of 75million ppl there alone. There is a big enough influx of ppl from the 75 million pot to identify a target group.  Uand I who are not statisticians can identify ppl imagine what a well thought out plan with real Stats can identify. 
Also all this minor league baseball stuff and failed MLB attempts is based on different facts and a different time. Orlando now has a population of about 2.5 million ppl. If we factor in our visitors we have approximately 8-9million ppl living here on a monthly basis, the size of NYC proper. 

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

 Seems like your already identifying a target group. I for one after spending hours at a theme park WILL NOT be interested in a baseball game. Seems logical that the ones who are spending time at the beach will likely take in a baseball game. Your case assumes that all tourists come solely for the theme parks. Not all visitors come for that, Orlando has a GiNormous Convention center industry. As a matter of fact 1.5 million ppl attended our convention center in 2018/2019 that’s 2 % of 75million ppl there alone. There is a big enough influx of ppl from the 75 million pot to identify a target group.  Uand I who are not statisticians can identify ppl imagine what a well thought out plan with real Stats can identify. 
Also all this minor league baseball stuff and failed MLB attempts is based on different facts and a different time. Orlando now has a population of about 2.5 million ppl. If we factor in our visitors we have approximately 8-9million ppl living here on a monthly basis, the size of NYC proper. 

MiLB just failed in Kissimmee and at Disney within the last few years and remember that also includes the Atlanta Braves for spring training.

What’s also of interest to me is that it has NEVER been the interest of the tourism community (including Harris Rosen, whose business is largely conventions) to believe that sports were a must have for I-Drive. Generally, it’s been the opposite. 

But hey, what do I know? I’m just a good ol’ boy from the orange groves.

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by spenser1058

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Ummm and I just deliver mail. Your right about the crickets observation. Not a peep! We shall what’s the next move on the chess board.

[jliv]

This very 90's bulletin board software doesn't provide an obvious way for me to ban people from the topic I started.  If I could, I would ban both spenser and orange87.  Both are using inflammatory rhetoric, but special recognition goes to Orange87 for bringing the conversation into the gutter quickly, which is probably more appropriate for 4chan, not an urban affairs BBS.   Please keep the convo about baseball in Orlando.  Our peers in Nashville and Charlotte are rattling on and on about their cities' chances with MLB, without sounding like a bunch of troglodytes.  

[jliv]

12 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Call it a hunch based on personal anecdote. 
Some people simply do not care about amateur sports, and therefore a comparison to top-of-the-line professional sport is apples and oranges. I would go to every single NFL game if a team was based here, but I never even considered watching this AAF nonsense on tv, let alone going to watch in person. If it’s not big-league, it’s a pass for me. I don’t know if many people feel this way, but at least some do, and couple that with the 100 million visitors to our region and I have plenty of reason to ascertain baseball might work here.

 

Isn’t that what the much-maligned Pat Williams is trying to do? Rally interest in hopes of luring a team here? It worked with the Magic, although under slightly different circumstances. Just because you don’t agree with his personal stances doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a plan that can one day come to fruition. At the very LEAST, Orlando is in a national conversation on the possibility of MLB with Portland and Charlotte and Austin that they assuredly weren’t in last year.

Orlando doesn't seem to be in these same conversations like it was 20 years ago.  The Great Recession really did sucker-punch civic morale and leadership.  

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I apologize if I lowered myself to a lower level. I mostly ignore ppl like that and when I do engage it’s in the most polished English and polite way possible. But some ppl only understand a certain technique, the language of plebeians or plain folk. I’m just fed up with intolerance and backward thinking.

[jliv]

3 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I apologize if I lowered myself to a lower level. I mostly ignore ppl like that and when I do engage it’s in the most polished English and polite way possible. But some ppl only understand a certain technique, the language of plebeians or plain folk. I’m just fed up with intolerance and backward thinking.

GASP.  Intelligent discussion on social media without inflammatory language.  Such a forgotten art.  Everything changed with AOL! LOL

Edited December 19, 2019 by jliv

[AndyPok1]

There's way too many things to quote so I'm just gonna ramble.

I'm not sure how you market to both the locals and the tourists.  Conventioneers aren't going to be interested in a 20 minute drive downtown after a day of meetings and happy hours to take in a game.  Locals by and large aren't going to want to go to I-Drive regularly to enjoy a game.  Kissimmee's failure at low, low, low, low-level MiLB really has no bearing the desire for the baseball within Orlando as a whole.  I drove to Kissimmee on the weekend and I completely forgot how far away it is from Orlando proper.  Disney and the Braves also weren't a failure.  They've been there 20 years.  Most teams relocate their Spring Training after around that time because of aging facilities.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

There's way too many things to quote so I'm just gonna ramble.

I'm not sure how you market to both the locals and the tourists.  Conventioneers aren't going to be interested in a 20 minute drive downtown after a day of meetings and happy hours to take in a game.  Locals by and large aren't going to want to go to I-Drive regularly to enjoy a game.  Kissimmee's failure at low, low, low, low-level MiLB really has no bearing the desire for the baseball within Orlando as a whole.  I drove to Kissimmee on the weekend and I completely forgot how far away it is from Orlando proper.  Disney and the Braves also weren't a failure.  They've been there 20 years.  Most teams relocate their Spring Training after around that time because of aging facilities.

Or they do like Lakeland did and upgrade their facilities.

As to Disney, they weren’t enough of a draw to be worth keeping, were they? And spring training ticket sales didn’t reach forecast goals after the first few years.

Once again, the point: Orlando didn’t have enough interest in baseball to keep the closest spring training team.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

As to Disney, they weren’t enough of a draw to be worth keeping, were they? And spring training tickets never reached the goals originally forecast.

WDW is in an entirely different phase of the master plan than they were when WWOS opened.  Similar reasons why the Speedway was demolished for a flyover ramp and additional parking.  Everything I've read on various boards/heard on podcasts is that it was a mutual separation.

Edited December 19, 2019 by AndyPok1

[codypet]

23 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

There's way too many things to quote so I'm just gonna ramble.

I'm not sure how you market to both the locals and the tourists.  Conventioneers aren't going to be interested in a 20 minute drive downtown after a day of meetings and happy hours to take in a game.  Locals by and large aren't going to want to go to I-Drive regularly to enjoy a game.  Kissimmee's failure at low, low, low, low-level MiLB really has no bearing the desire for the baseball within Orlando as a whole.  I drove to Kissimmee on the weekend and I completely forgot how far away it is from Orlando proper.  Disney and the Braves also weren't a failure.  They've been there 20 years.  Most teams relocate their Spring Training after around that time because of aging facilities.

Build the ballpark in Millenia across from Holy Land.   Or on that property on the corner of JYP and the future Holden/ Millennia extension.   Across from Wawa.   Problem solved. 

[dcluley98]

I disagree with mostly everybody in this thread in some manner. 

Orlando hardly needs or can support an MLB team, and even if it theoretically could it probably shouldn't.

None of this matters. 

Feel free to disparage my opinion and call me slurs. 

I prefer "charlatan" or "buffoon" if you must. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by dcluley98

[WAJAS]

I do not know where this baseball crowd is coming from.  I see no way we can support it, and I think any tax dollars going towards building a stadium for it that will never get close to filling is a waste.

[orange87]

Orlando Dreamers: Quest continues to bring professional baseball to region: https://www.wftv.com/news/orlando-dreamers-quest-continues-bring-professional-baseball-region/6O6F6DRIANCVVAXX2VE6VAWWNQ/

Edited December 20, 2019 by orange87

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

I do not know where this baseball crowd is coming from.  I see no way we can support it, and I think any tax dollars going towards building a stadium for it that will never get close to filling is a waste.

don't worry, LOL.  those precious tax dollars will somehow find their way in the pockets of the DeVos clan for the "planned" Magic Entertainment Complex.