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Zoi House Orlando/ New Tallest [Proposed]

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33 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Has to be Austin. There is no other city of relative size with that growth and even they don't have that many currently coming out of the ground.

They've also posted on the Austin board so you're probably right.  Don't know how they figure Austin is smaller, though.

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2 minutes ago, elefants said:

They've also posted on the Austin board so you're probably right.  Don't know how they figure Austin is smaller, though.

Metro area.

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1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Metro area.

It seems weird to me to use metro population to compare high rises going up.  What's weirder is apparently there are more residents in downtown Orlando than downtown Austin. 

 

Edit:  Or maybe that's not weird and actually where the demand for high rises is coming from?

Edited by elefants

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22 minutes ago, elefants said:

It seems weird to me to use metro population to compare high rises going up.  What's weirder is apparently there are more residents in downtown Orlando than downtown Austin. 

 

Edit:  Or maybe that's not weird and actually where the demand for high rises is coming from?

City limits population means nothing. Otherwise, Oklahoma City Or Louisville would have more high rises than Miami.

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4 hours ago, elefants said:

It seems weird to me to use metro population to compare high rises going up.  What's weirder is apparently there are more residents in downtown Orlando than downtown Austin. 

 

Edit:  Or maybe that's not weird and actually where the demand for high rises is coming from?

That is surprising. It seemed when I was there that that they had a decent downtown population. 

4 hours ago, Uncommon said:

City limits population means nothing. Otherwise, Oklahoma City Or Louisville would have more high rises than Miami.

Or Jacksonville.

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4 hours ago, Uncommon said:

City limits population means nothing. Otherwise, Oklahoma City Or Louisville would have more high rises than Miami.

...and city limits population of OKC and Louisville ala downtown buildings' size versus Orlando?  They both have a larger city population and they both have larger downtown office buildings.  So does Miami (compared to Orlando).

Same with Jax.  Same with Tampa.  Same with Nashville and a whole host of other cities with larger city populations.  More people living in Lake County or Kissimmee means nothing for Orlando's CBD.

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Yes, Austin TX, this city is a little bit less than 2 million vs Orlando metro is a little over 2 million.
If you guys take a look at the Austin forum there are several 500s 600s even a couple over 700s and 800 ft.
Downtown is very vibrant also, I would say way more than Orlando.
The thing is that Orlando as a city is growing a lot, only that is not growing up.


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5 minutes ago, Flotex said:

Yes, Austin TX, this city is a little bit less than 2 million vs Orlando metro is a little over 2 million.
If you guys take a look at the Austin forum there are several 500s 600s even a couple over 700s and 800 ft.
Downtown is very vibrant also, I would say way more than Orlando.
The thing is that Orlando as a city is growing a lot, only that is not growing up.

I think the correct word should be "upward".

We "grew up" a long time ago.

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I can’t speak to Austin but the major difference for Orlando, unlike, say, Charlotte, is that our downtown is not the primary job creator in the region. It never has been, and given that our two primary industries, tourism and tech, are intentionally located 10-20 miles from the core, it is not likely to be anytime soon.

That doesn’t mean anything is wrong with Orlando. It’s just different.

Given those constraints, downtown is actually punching above its weight as the major governmental and sports/entertainment hub of the region. We also have the flagships of the two major hospital groups close by, although that may be split over time with Lake Nona.

Another thing people forget is just how young Orlando is as a city. Lakeland, whose tallest building is 10 stories, is what Orlando was until Martin, Disney and UCF transformed it. You have to get to the late ‘60’s with the Citizens building and the ‘70’s with CNA when we began to have greater aspirations than Lakeland in terms of vertical towers. (For much of the 20th century, Polk County had more people than Orange; in the old tag system, Polk was #5 and Orange #7, which denoted population rank).

Finally, in terms of height, we have the airport limit. When Sun Bank Center was built, their clout was used to raise that limit. So far, no developer has the incentive or desire to go through the process and lobby for it to be changed. Until they do (and remember, Sun Bank was a locally-owned trophy building), we’re unlikely to exceed 500’ downtown.

 

 

Edited by spenser1058
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Which city do you live in out of curiosity?
You’re right. It’s pretty disconcerting that a city as big, important, and growing as Orlando doesn’t have more high-rises. It seems like we routinely get some nice, tall-ish buildings proposed, but for some reason they never see the light of day.
Certain posters here will try to dissuade you from clamoring for tall buildings and instead focus on a downtown’s street activity, which I freely admit is just as important. I get the feeling that if Orlando already HAD a large skyline, their tune would change and they wouldn’t be making excuses and concessions. Imo there is nothing at all wrong with desiring taller buildings, as a recognizable, impressive skyline can lead to civic pride, national recognition, and cultural relevance.


I agree on that, impressive tall buildings help to make the city different, proud, confident and desirable for companies and investors.

It has to be a reason, while in Orlando developers build a 10 story apartment complex in prime location in Austin they are building a 40/50 story tower.
Maybe some incentives from the city or something.

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11 hours ago, jrs2 said:

...and city limits population of OKC and Louisville ala downtown buildings' size versus Orlando?  They both have a larger city population and they both have larger downtown office buildings.  So does Miami (compared to Orlando).

Same with Jax.  Same with Tampa.  Same with Nashville and a whole host of other cities with larger city populations.  More people living in Lake County or Kissimmee means nothing for Orlando's CBD.

Great point tbh!

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Austin as similar development costs as Orlando but higher rents. At least it did a few years ago. 

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6 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Great point tbh!

There's another thing about this point, and this touches on Spencer1058's post.  Because the city limits are larger, for a longer period of time, those other cities have more major companies located there.  That's why Sunbank built in Orlando, as well as CNA; because of their presence.  In the '80's, DuPont had a presence here too.  Charlotte has those major banks headquartered there.  So my thing has always been, look at city population, and then you'll notice a more developed downtown with many more older buildings with a track record and history of major companies' presence there.

Downtown could have had a larger corporate presence had they made moves to keep CNA, Travelers, and to lure Adventist and Darden and perhaps AAA.  the suburban office parks have sucks away too many companies ala better rents.

However, by continuing to increase downtown residential, it will make it even more desirable and could spillover to more companies wanting to be located there.  Creative Village has already lured EA to downtown.  A better residential presence downtown can only help- and that is a big asset downtown has.  It really is.   

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4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

There's another thing about this point, and this touches on Spencer1058's post.  Because the city limits are larger, for a longer period of time, those other cities have more major companies located there.  That's why Sunbank built in Orlando, as well as CNA; because of their presence.  In the '80's, DuPont had a presence here too.  Charlotte has those major banks headquartered there.  So my thing has always been, look at city population, and then you'll notice a more developed downtown with many more older buildings with a track record and history of major companies' presence there.

Downtown could have had a larger corporate presence had they made moves to keep CNA, Travelers, and to lure Adventist and Darden and perhaps AAA.  the suburban office parks have sucks away too many companies ala better rents.

However, by continuing to increase downtown residential, it will make it even more desirable and could spillover to more companies wanting to be located there.  Creative Village has already lured EA to downtown.  A better residential presence downtown can only help- and that is a big asset downtown has.  It really is.   

With thousands of people sitting in their high rise apartments with nothing to spend their money on, my hope is we'll get some better retail/shopping opportunities too. 

Edited by Jvest55
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Most of the major employers are not close to downtown at all, Amazon, Samsung, Apple are far from downtown, some of them like Dell are not even in Austin but Round Rock.
I think the only companies with presence in downtown are Google and Facebook but I don't think they have as many employees as the other campuses far from the city.

Rents and real estate is very similar in price and property taxes are considerably more in Texas.

About the reason for the little downtown we have in Orlando being a new city, yes is a very new city, but Austin 20 years ago was small city too, probably even smaller than Lakeland.

I love Orlando and I have many real estate investment in Orange and Seminole county I would love for Orlando core to grow and become a major city but it looks like is only sprawling and has that little city feel.




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Austin also has 75000 state employees, many of whom I assume work close to downtown. 

Although the Texas legislature meets only every two years, there are thousands of lobbyists and influence group employees who are employees in the Capitol area. 

That makes quite a difference in Nashville and Atlanta, and those are the capitals of states much smaller than Texas.

It’s why we were so crestfallen when Gov. Claude Kirk’s efforts to move Florida’s capital to Orlando crashed and burned.

Employment associated with a state capital is one of the most stable bases for core cities.

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On 2/5/2020 at 12:02 PM, dcluley98 said:

Not for long. Orlando has the  fastest rising rents in the country: https://www.wesh.com/article/orlando-rents-rising-faster-than-any-other-city-in-america/26552916

(article was from last year, but I have seen similar articles/reports  lately)

That is the entire metro and part of the reason our rents are rising so fast is suburban product. Rents in downtown Orlando are not growing fast enough though we will see when all of this new product comes on line. 

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Austin also has 75000 state employees, many of whom I assume work close to downtown. 

Although the Texas legislature meets only every two years, there are thousands of lobbyists and influence group employees who are employees in the Capitol area. 

That makes quite a difference in Nashville and Atlanta, and those are the capitals of states much smaller than Texas.

It’s why we were so crestfallen when Gov. Claude Kirk’s efforts to move Florida’s capital to Orlando crashed and burned.

Employment associated with a state capital is one of the most stable bases for core cities.

Good point about the state capital. That makes a big, big difference. 

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1 hour ago, jack said:

That is the entire metro and part of the reason our rents are rising so fast is suburban product. Rents in downtown Orlando are not growing fast enough though we will see when all of this new product comes on line. 

Is that correct? The last I looked downtown was the 2nd highest average rent and the 2nd highest growth rate in the area. Behind the UCF area in both counts.

Maybe my numbers were outdated.

 

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1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

Is that correct? The last I looked downtown was the 2nd highest average rent and the 2nd highest growth rate in the area. Behind the UCF area in both counts.

Maybe my numbers were outdated.

 

I think so. Seems almost xheeper to live downtown than the southern suburbs. 

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1 minute ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I think so. Seems almost xheeper to live downtown than the southern suburbs. 

I was recently looking to move from a duplex in Eola Heights, and thought we might save a little moving further out --- not the case at all!  Ended up in Colonialtown North near Audubon for twice what we were paying in Eola (for a much larger place).

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13 hours ago, smileguy said:

I was recently looking to move from a duplex in Eola Heights, and thought we might save a little moving further out --- not the case at all!  Ended up in Colonialtown North near Audubon for twice what we were paying in Eola (for a much larger place).

I find that interesting... are the dwellings truly like-like (i.e. similar in age, sq ft, finishes, amenities, single-family vs multi-vamily, etc) or  possibly apples to oranges?

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