389 North (AKA Zoi House) | 41-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[jrs2]

22 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I disagree with mostly everybody in this thread in some manner. 

Orlando hardly needs or can support an MLB team, and even if it theoretically could it probably shouldn't.

None of this matters. 

Feel free to disparage my opinion and call me slurs. 

I prefer "charlatan" or "buffoon" if you must. 

 

 

Listen, you....you...orange & blue buffoon!  I actually agree with you.  I just can't see MLB making it here.  I personally just feel that you need a big city core with old history for it to work.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I am.   MLB is a good sport for a city ala the traditional concept of "city." 

[spenser1058]

TPS looks at five major league teams that shouldn’t move (including the Jags) and five teams that definitely should.

#1 of the teams that should move? The fabulous Tampa Bay Rays. Interestingly, of all the places TPS says they could go, Orlando ain’t one of them.

https://youtu.be/xAeNvYa9dwg

 

[spenser1058]

https://www.yourcommunitypaper.com/articles/the-cp-interview-jimmy-hewitt-an-interview-with-the-man-who-brought-the-magic-to-orlando/

A lot of folks forget that, before Pat Williams came to Orlando, local entrepreneur Jimmy Hewitt had to ask him to come. He was as integral to our landing the NBA franchise as Pat was.

That is the part that seems to be missing with Pat’s quixotic quest for baseball. We know he is a master at beating the drum, but this time around we seem to be lacking the rest of the band.

From the Community Paper

Edited January 6, 2020 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:59 PM, jrs2 said:

Listen, you....you...orange & blue buffoon!  I actually agree with you.  I just can't see MLB making it here.  I personally just feel that you need a big city core with old history for it to work.  Maybe I'm wrong.  I hope I am.   MLB is a good sport for a city ala the traditional concept of "city." 

Sadly, I think you're probably right about that.

Baseball seems to do best in cities with long histories as big league towns and where the tradition of baseball has been passed on from generation to generation.

Plus, it's so flippin hot and humid down here in the summer time. 

[orange87]

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd ask the Rays what it would take for them to move to Orlando and do whatever they ask. If they want us to fully pay for and build a state of the art stadium at no cost to them, I'd do it. I don't think a Tampa and Orlando team could survive so close to each other. I think it would have to be one or the other. 

[popsiclebrandon]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd ask the Rays what it would take for them to move to Orlando and do whatever they ask. If they want us to fully pay for and build a state of the art stadium at no cost to them, I'd do it. I don't think a Tampa and Orlando team could survive so close to each other. I think it would have to be one or the other. 

Why should we pay for a stadium for billionaires? Those deals have never worked out for the cities doing them.  I can't see what benefit we'd get out of 15-25k going to a stadium 81 nights a year.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Why should we pay for a stadium for billionaires? Those deals have never worked out for the cities doing them.  I can't see what benefit we'd get out of 15-25k going to a stadium 81 nights a year.

Pat can just call up his billionaire buddies while he’s lining up signatures from the House pillow and tell them to ante up - problem solved!

Heck, let’s spread the wealth - if you put the team in Daytona, the Frances could modify the infield of DIS for baseball. All those tourists at the beach are no doubt itching to see baseball games and think about all those retirees at Margaritaville with nothing else to do. 

Volusia has a TDT- they can tap it for baseball and all the folks from both Orlando and Jacksonville will head over too.

Daytona’s the perfect place for baseball!

[orange87]

33 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Why should we pay for a stadium for billionaires? Those deals have never worked out for the cities doing them.  I can't see what benefit we'd get out of 15-25k going to a stadium 81 nights a year.

Because in this day and age, any city that wants a pro sports team has to foot the bill for the stadium. You don't have to like it. That's the reality. And I'd like to see you provide documentation to back up your claim that cities paying for stadiums never works out for the city, or even what that means. Having the Rays in Orlando, not only and MLB team but an AL East team no less, would put Orlando on the map in a big way. The Braves just got a new stadium in Atlanta and it cost $622 million. I'm sure the city of Orlando could find a way to get that built at a similar price with public and private investment. You have to spend money to make money.

[jrs2]

6 hours ago, orange87 said:

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd ask the Rays what it would take for them to move to Orlando and do whatever they ask. If they want us to fully pay for and build a state of the art stadium at no cost to them, I'd do it. I don't think a Tampa and Orlando team could survive so close to each other. I think it would have to be one or the other. 

you're not in the minority...about getting the Rays.  that being said, I dunno about MLB's viability in Orlando.

If I didn't live in Orlando, I'd figure out a way to make the Rays work better in St. Pete with the St. Pete scene.  As a fallback, downtown Tampa.  Tampa has those developers building billions of dollars' worth of development in the Channelside area; the port is there, the arena is there, water is there, Ibor is nearby, the trolley is there, Harbor Island is there, the TCC is there, etc...  Tampa is grungier and bigger than Orlando; it just seems like a better fit.

If they were going to leave anyway, get them here, yes, I agree.  If a stadium went on I-Drive, that could work, but I would not want to see a sea of surface parking surrounding a stadium.  I don't think they would consider downtown Orlando- they should, but I don't think downtown would be in play.  

 

[JFW657]

3 hours ago, orange87 said:

Because in this day and age, any city that wants a pro sports team has to foot the bill for the stadium. You don't have to like it. That's the reality. And I'd like to see you provide documentation to back up your claim that cities paying for stadiums never works out for the city, or even what that means. Having the Rays in Orlando, not only and MLB team but an AL East team no less, would put Orlando on the map in a big way. The Braves just got a new stadium in Atlanta and it cost $622 million. I'm sure the city of Orlando could find a way to get that built at a similar price with public and private investment. You have to spend money to make money.

I dunno... if Orlando were to get the Rays, it would (obviously) involve them leaving St Pete. That would mean leaving their existing stadium, which would then sit empty, which would kind of validate the arguments against us building a new stadium for them.

If they leave the Tampa Bay area for Orlando, how long might it be before they leave Orlando to go somewhere else?

I'm not 100% sure Orlando is a big enough city to successfully support a MLB team, but if we can get one, I'd be behind some kind of public/private partnership to build a stadium.

Don't think I agree with footing the entire bill for a $600 million facility, though.

[orange87]

26 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I dunno... if Orlando were to get the Rays, it would (obviously) involve them leaving St Pete. That would mean leaving their existing stadium, which would then sit empty, which would kind of validate the arguments against us building a new stadium for them.

If they leave the Tampa Bay area for Orlando, how long might it be before they leave Orlando to go somewhere else?

I'm not 100% sure Orlando is a big enough city to successfully support a MLB team, but if we can get one, I'd be behind some kind of public/private partnership to build a stadium.

Don't think I agree with footing the entire bill for a $600 million facility, though.

I'll tell you why the Rays won't leave Orlando were they to come here. The Rays want to leave for two reasons, both involve their current stadium. First, their stadium is in a bad location far removed from downtown St. Pete. Secondly, their stadium sucks... BIGLY. Tropicana Field is a low budget hockey stadium built in 1990 that was crappy even when it was built. When the Rays became a team, they made a (failed) attempt to turn this cheaply built hockey stadium into something it wasn't designed to be, a MLB stadium. MLB even had to create special rules for Tropicana Field because the ceiling is too low because it wasn't built for baseball, so fly balls deflect off the rafters and can land anywhere. In summary, the Rays don't even have a baseball stadium. They have a makeshift hockey stadium that is nowhere near up to MLB stadium standards. If we showed Rays ownership that without a shadow of a doubt we would build them an ACTUAL MLB stadium, and a nice modern one to boot, they would come here in a heart beat. They're so desperate to get out of Tropicana that they're even floating the idea of moving to Montreal even though there's no stadium there or a promise of one, and MLB already failed there once.

Edited January 7, 2020 by orange87

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

I'll tell you why the Rays won't leave Orlando were they to come here. The Rays want to leave for two reasons, both involve their current stadium. First, their stadium is in a bad location far removed from downtown St. Pete. Secondly, their stadium sucks... BIGLY. Tropicana Field is a low budget hockey stadium built in 1990 that was crappy even when it was built. When the Rays became a team, they made a (failed) attempt to turn this cheaply built hockey stadium into something it wasn't designed to be, a MLB stadium. MLB even had to create special rules for Tropicana Field because the ceiling is too low because it wasn't built for baseball, so fly balls deflect off the rafters and can land anywhere. In summary, the Rays don't even have a baseball stadium. They have a makeshift hockey stadium that is nowhere near up to MLB stadium standards. If we showed Rays ownership that without a shadow of a doubt we would build them an ACTUAL MLB stadium, and a nice modern one to boot, they would come here in a heart beat. They're so desperate to get out of Tropicana that they're even floating the idea of moving to Montreal even though there's no stadium there or a promise of one, and MLB already failed there once.

But we'd also be competing with Tampa who wants the Rays, too.

https://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/hillsborough-commission-hoping-to-keep-abandoned-rays-stadium-plans-in-play-20190110/subscribe/

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

I'll tell you why the Rays won't leave Orlando were they to come here. The Rays want to leave for two reasons, both involve their current stadium. First, their stadium is in a bad location far removed from downtown St. Pete. Secondly, their stadium sucks... BIGLY. Tropicana Field is a low budget hockey stadium built in 1990 that was crappy even when it was built. When the Rays became a team, they made a (failed) attempt to turn this cheaply built hockey stadium into something it wasn't designed to be, a MLB stadium. MLB even had to create special rules for Tropicana Field because the ceiling is too low because it wasn't built for baseball, so fly balls deflect off the rafters and can land anywhere. In summary, the Rays don't even have a baseball stadium. They have a makeshift hockey stadium that is nowhere near up to MLB stadium standards. If we showed Rays ownership that without a shadow of a doubt we would build them an ACTUAL MLB stadium, and a nice modern one to boot, they would come here in a heart beat. They're so desperate to get out of Tropicana that they're even floating the idea of moving to Montreal even though there's no stadium there or a promise of one, and MLB already failed there once.

Actually, Tropicana is no more detached from downtown St Pete than Camping World is from Orlando, but otherwise I think I agree with your point. I'm a huge sports fan, but baseball is not my thing. Regardless, I drive to St Pete a couple times a year, fly to Atlanta and Boston annually to catch a game with buddies. So if we had a team I'm sure I'd check in occasionally. Pro sports are very important to name recognition of a city. How many people outside of America would know Oklahoma City existed if they didn't have a team. OTOH, the City of Orlando already has a high Q-level and name recognition.

I'm neutral on this issue- would be happy with a team, would support providing financial incentive, but not sure it is really important. If someone could present info that says baseball attendees will rent hotel rooms and go to local restaurants downtown then I'd say yes. But my visits to St. Pete don't validate that as it seems to be mostly locals and day-trippers.

[popsiclebrandon]

6 hours ago, orange87 said:

Because in this day and age, any city that wants a pro sports team has to foot the bill for the stadium. You don't have to like it. That's the reality. And I'd like to see you provide documentation to back up your claim that cities paying for stadiums never works out for the city, or even what that means. Having the Rays in Orlando, not only and MLB team but an AL East team no less, would put Orlando on the map in a big way. The Braves just got a new stadium in Atlanta and it cost $622 million. I'm sure the city of Orlando could find a way to get that built at a similar price with public and private investment. You have to spend money to make money.

You have it very backwards. More and more cities are saying no to the billionaires trying to scam cities. Its proven over and over that these deals never help cities. Do some reading, its sobering and shows how dumb it would be to give them a dollar. Plus I think we can safely say after the 30-40 seasons of Florida MLB it just doesn't work.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/11/sports-stadiums-can-be-bad-cities/576334/

https://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/how-sports-teams-exploit-city-budgets-to-fund-stadiums/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-ballpark-adds-to-hartfords-financial-strain-1491912002

[HankStrong]

I'm just here to say the Trop is the worst professional sports venue for a major league sport I've ever been to.  In fact, the word "professional" should be in quotation marks because it actually is anything but professional.

I know I rail on the Citrus Bowl, but at least that's not an actual pro sports facility.

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I'm just here to say the Trop is the worst professional sports venue for a major league sport I've ever been to.  In fact, the word "professional" should be in quotation marks because it actually is anything but professional.

I know I rail on the Citrus Bowl, but at least that's not an actual pro sports facility.

The Trop is pretty bad - it was conceived in St. Pete's era of the "Grumpy Old Men" before they got a strong-mayor system. It was a weird time over there.

Edited January 7, 2020 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

Right after I moved here, a new buddy invited me to go with his friends to a Rays (then DEVIL Rays) game.  I sat there in shock.  I couldn't believe how awful it was.

I'd been to a bunch of the MLB heritage parks and it isn't just because the Trop is old.  It's whatever those grumpy old men caused.  It's horrible.

[Uncommon]

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2020/01/07/is-orlando-the-future-for-the-tampa-bay-rays/
 

Retired Orlando Magic executive Pat Williams says Orlando is the natural future home for the Tampa Bay Rays.

And he’s made that pitch to team executives in recent months.

Rays co-presidents Matt Silverman and Brian Auld have met with Williams ”several times" since Rays owner Stu Sternberg announced his split-season concept between Tampa Bay and Montreal. The last meeting with Auld was just before Christmas, Williams told the Tampa Bay Times this week.

“We have a good relationship,” Williams said. He and Auld had discussed the possibility of Orlando being part of a split-season scenario after the team’s use agreement expires in St. Petersburg in 2027, he said. However, Williams says, he’s not interested in sharing a team.

The Rays declined to comment.

Orlando, Williams says, is the logical full-time home for the Rays. That’s big change from November when Williams first unveiled the Orlando Dreamers proposal. At that time, he was vague about whether the team would pursue an expansion franchise or an existing team.

Now, Williams is confident that Orlando can lure the Rays to a brand new ballpark ready for the first pitch of the 2028 season.

Williams has fleshed out his vision for a $1.2 billion dollar state-of-the-art domed ballpark built with the help of tourist tax revenue. He’s confident that his booming metro area will outpace Tampa Bay in population and clout within a dozen years. And, he argues, Orlando is uniquely poised to introduce America‘s pastime to tens of millions of foreign tourists who come for Mickey but might stick around a day longer for baseball.

Baseball can be a thriving business in a fast-growing region heavy with deep-pocket corporate sponsors like Disney and Universal, he says.

”We feel that the Rays need not look to Montreal, need not look to a split season, 41 here and 41 somewhere else,“ Williams told the Times this week. “This is their perfect new home.”

Orlando passed St. Petersburg to become the state’s fourth-largest city five years ago. (Tampa is third.) It’s the fastest-growing metro area in Florida and fifth fastest in the nation. Orlando is currently the 18th largest TV market, several notches down from Tampa Bay’s 11th ranking, but it‘s just a matter of time before Orlando passes Tampa Bay, Williams said.

 

Unlike Pinellas, which is largely built out, and with more room to grow than Hillsborough, the Orlando area is “growing in all four directions," Williams said.

St. Petersburg simply isn’t big enough to support a major league team, he said.

“It’s a tiny little market. They’ve tried everything they can for the last 20 years to make it work. It’s not a great tourist town. It is what it is,” Williams said.

St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman chuckled when he heard Williams‘ characterization of his city. He noted that Major League Baseball is planning to expand by two teams in the coming years.

“He’s going to do what he’s going to do to pursue a team. That‘s great,” Kriseman said Tuesday."He can certainly toss his hat in the ring with all the other communities, and all the power to him."

Tampa Mayor Jane Castor, who recently said she’s open to the idea of splitting a season with Montreal, declined comment through a spokeswoman.

Kriseman said the Rays hadn’t told him they had discussions with Orlando, but said the news didn’t surprise him.

Williams also said the Tampa Bay area is too fragmented by geography and politics to make up for St. Petersburg’s weaknesses.

Tampa Bay isn’t unified market like Minneapolis-St. Paul, he said, adding a more apt comparison might be Oakland and San Francisco.

“I don’t get the sense that Tampa and St. Pete are kissing cousins. I get the sense they’re more like hissing cousins, Williams said.

 

Tampa wouldn’t really be losing the Rays, Williams insisted. He contended that a drive east on Interstate 4 is more convenient for Hillsborough fans than a jaunt over the bridges unless you have a helicopter.

”We would not be taking away Tampa’s baseball team at all," he said. "We’d just be moving them a little to the east.”

Although he hasn’t spoken to the Rays owner, Williams said he doesn’t believe Sternberg wants to sell the team and thinks he would retain ownership if the franchise moved to Orlando.

Orlando does have some clear advantages. Orange County collects about triple the tourist bed taxes each year than the combined totals of Pinellas and Hillsborough. A move east likely wouldn’t nullify a reportedly lucrative new television contract that the Rays just inked, since the Rays currently broadcast statewide. And there are those big potential corporate sponsors.

There’s also a lot of ifs. Williams hasn’t talked to Disney yet, but points out that the global giant is a major sponsor of the Magic, which currently sports the Disney logo on players’ jerseys.

The land hasn't been assembled and neither the city nor county have made any commitments to a team.

All in due time, Williams said.

”There’s no need to yet. Until the Rays say to some city, ”We want you,” then it begins. Then the political people rise up and we will hear from them, he said

But in the six weeks since unveiling the drive to get a team at an Orlando sports pub, Williams says, 11,302 people as of Monday have signed up to be potential season ticket holders.

”We’ve had a very, very strong reaction to Orlando becoming a Major League Baseball city,” he said.

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida/2020/01/07/is-orlando-the-future-for-the-tampa-bay-rays/
 

Retired Orlando Magic executive Pat Williams says Orlando is the natural future home for the Tampa Bay Rays.

And he’s made that pitch to team executives in recent months.

Rays co-presidents Matt Silverman and Brian Auld have met with Williams ”several times" since Rays owner Stu Sternberg announced his split-season concept between Tampa Bay and Montreal. The last meeting with Auld was just before Christmas, Williams told the Tampa Bay Times this week.

“We have a good relationship,” Williams said. He and Auld had discussed the possibility of Orlando being part of a split-season scenario after the team’s use agreement expires in St. Petersburg in 2027, he said. However, Williams says, he’s not interested in sharing a team.

The Rays declined to comment.

Orlando, Williams says, is the logical full-time home for the Rays. That’s big change from November when Williams first unveiled the Orlando Dreamers proposal. At that time, he was vague about whether the team would pursue an expansion franchise or an existing team.

Now, Williams is confident that Orlando can lure the Rays to a brand new ballpark ready for the first pitch of the 2028 season.

Williams has fleshed out his vision for a $1.2 billion dollar state-of-the-art domed ballpark built with the help of tourist tax revenue. He’s confident that his booming metro area will outpace Tampa Bay in population and clout within a dozen years. And, he argues, Orlando is uniquely poised to introduce America‘s pastime to tens of millions of foreign tourists who come for Mickey but might stick around a day longer for baseball.

Baseball can be a thriving business in a fast-growing region heavy with deep-pocket corporate sponsors like Disney and Universal, he says.

”We feel that the Rays need not look to Montreal, need not look to a split season, 41 here and 41 somewhere else,“ Williams told the Times this week. “This is their perfect new home.”

Orlando passed St. Petersburg to become the state’s fourth-largest city five years ago. (Tampa is third.) It’s the fastest-growing metro area in Florida and fifth fastest in the nation. Orlando is currently the 18th largest TV market, several notches down from Tampa Bay’s 11th ranking, but it‘s just a matter of time before Orlando passes Tampa Bay, Williams said.

 

Unlike Pinellas, which is largely built out, and with more room to grow than Hillsborough, the Orlando area is “growing in all four directions," Williams said.

St. Petersburg simply isn’t big enough to support a major league team, he said.

“It’s a tiny little market. They’ve tried everything they can for the last 20 years to make it work. It’s not a great tourist town. It is what it is,” Williams said.

St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman chuckled when he heard Williams‘ characterization of his city. He noted that Major League Baseball is planning to expand by two teams in the coming years.

“He’s going to do what he’s going to do to pursue a team. That‘s great,” Kriseman said Tuesday."He can certainly toss his hat in the ring with all the other communities, and all the power to him."

Tampa Mayor Jane Castor, who recently said she’s open to the idea of splitting a season with Montreal, declined comment through a spokeswoman.

Kriseman said the Rays hadn’t told him they had discussions with Orlando, but said the news didn’t surprise him.

Williams also said the Tampa Bay area is too fragmented by geography and politics to make up for St. Petersburg’s weaknesses.

Tampa Bay isn’t unified market like Minneapolis-St. Paul, he said, adding a more apt comparison might be Oakland and San Francisco.

“I don’t get the sense that Tampa and St. Pete are kissing cousins. I get the sense they’re more like hissing cousins, Williams said.

 

Tampa wouldn’t really be losing the Rays, Williams insisted. He contended that a drive east on Interstate 4 is more convenient for Hillsborough fans than a jaunt over the bridges unless you have a helicopter.

”We would not be taking away Tampa’s baseball team at all," he said. "We’d just be moving them a little to the east.”

Although he hasn’t spoken to the Rays owner, Williams said he doesn’t believe Sternberg wants to sell the team and thinks he would retain ownership if the franchise moved to Orlando.

Orlando does have some clear advantages. Orange County collects about triple the tourist bed taxes each year than the combined totals of Pinellas and Hillsborough. A move east likely wouldn’t nullify a reportedly lucrative new television contract that the Rays just inked, since the Rays currently broadcast statewide. And there are those big potential corporate sponsors.

There’s also a lot of ifs. Williams hasn’t talked to Disney yet, but points out that the global giant is a major sponsor of the Magic, which currently sports the Disney logo on players’ jerseys.

The land hasn't been assembled and neither the city nor county have made any commitments to a team.

All in due time, Williams said.

”There’s no need to yet. Until the Rays say to some city, ”We want you,” then it begins. Then the political people rise up and we will hear from them, he said

But in the six weeks since unveiling the drive to get a team at an Orlando sports pub, Williams says, 11,302 people as of Monday have signed up to be potential season ticket holders.

”We’ve had a very, very strong reaction to Orlando becoming a Major League Baseball city,” he said.

Notice he’s changed his tune 180 degrees since he started this. Apparently, his original dog won’t hunt.

Also of note: Mayor Kriseman has already said he has no plans to release the Rays from their contract which runs to 2028. Wonder if Pat is planning to pay that off or if he believes Orange County taxpayers should be on the hook for that also.

Oh well, Pat ain’t getting any younger. Let’s see if he can keep this going for 8 more years.

Edited January 8, 2020 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

I'll go on a limb and say I think this is actually an optimistic change.  We have no idea where Orlando will be in 8 years.  But could this be a baseball destination in 2028?  I don't see why not.

[JFW657]

4 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I'll go on a limb and say I think this is actually an optimistic change.  We have no idea where Orlando will be in 8 years.  But could this be a baseball destination in 2028?  I don't see why not.

My friends scoffed at me in 1983 when I suggested, based on some articles I'd read about plans already in the works to build an arena next door to Bob Carr, that Orlando would become an NBA city. 

To this day I wish I could have seen their faces on the day it was announced O-town had been awarded a franchise.

[Uncommon]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Notice he’s changed his tune 180 degrees since he started this. Apparently, his original dog won’t hunt.

Also of note: Mayor Kriseman has already said he has no plans to release the Rays from their contract which runs to 2028. Wonder if Pat is planning to pay that off or if he believes Orange County taxpayers should be on the hook for that also.

Oh well, Pat ain’t getting any younger. Let’s see if he can keep this going for 8 more years.

Kriseman also said the same thing when the Rays were looking at various Tampa sites and the Montreal split. That doesn’t mean there’s not a conversation to be had. These things are usually years in the making anyway. The Oakland Raiders have been planning to move to Vegas for 4-5 years before it finally happens next summer. The Golden State Warriors are moving from Oakland to San Francisco after 4 years since the agreement to relocate. The point is, these things take time, so Pat doesn’t have to keep this up for 8 years. If an agreement is in place, Pat can die happy in 2023 knowing he’s responsible for bringing TWO major league teams to this region.

This is not to say this is any closer to happening than it was with the Dreamers fiasco, but if anyone can’t see a path to the Rays potentially moving to Orlando, it’s because they’re blatantly refusing to.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Uncommon

[spenser1058]

8 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Kriseman also said the same thing when the Rays were looking at various Tampa sites and the Montreal split. That doesn’t mean there’s not a conversation to be had. These things are usually years in the making anyway. The Oakland Raiders have been planning to move to Vegas for 4-5 years before it finally happens next summer. The Golden State Warriors are moving from Oakland to San Francisco after 4 years since the agreement to relocate. The point is, these things take time, so Pat doesn’t have to keep this up for 8 years. If an agreement is in place, Pat can die happy in 2023 knowing he’s responsible for bringing TWO major league teams to this region.

This is not to say this is any closer to happening than it was with the Dreamers fiasco, but if anyone can’t see a path to the Rays potentially moving to Orlando, it’s because they’re blatantly refusing to.

I welcome the Rays so long as not a penny of public money is spent on an endeavor no more likely to be successful here than it is in St. Pete or Miami. If they follow the OCSC model, then “Play Ball”!

Edited January 8, 2020 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

If you don't think a penny of public money was spent on OSCS, that's a very naïve choice to make.

They took the bulk of the burden, and I love that, but it's not like they didn't get anything.

[spenser1058]

43 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

If you don't think a penny of public money was spent on OSCS, that's a very naïve choice to make.

They took the bulk of the burden, and I love that, but it's not like they didn't get anything.

Hank, I’m trying to be nice to the soccer fanboys here. I totally agree with you, btw.

At least soccer is a growing sport. Baseball’s going the other way, especially in Florida. I think baseball will be fine in its strongholds but I’m not seeing it as a growth industry.