orange87

Is downtown Orlando a tourist destination and is there "nothing to do there?"

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That's why several billion dollars have been invested in downtown over the last several years, right?

That's the thing that escapes me - downtown Orlando is one of the fastest growing cores in the Sunbelt, both in terms of investment and new residents. But spend one day in here and you'd think we were Macon. Fascinating.

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

That's why several billion dollars have been invested in downtown over the last several years, right?

That's the thing that escapes me - downtown Orlando is one of the fastest growing cores in the Sunbelt, both in terms of investment and new residents. But spend one day in here and you'd think we were Macon. Fascinating.

If what you say is true and yet DTO is still only where it is now, it just goes to show how far behind we were to begin with and how much catching up we had and still have to do.

Many of us want to honestly discuss both the pluses and minuses.  

Simply cheerleading doesn't advance understanding or insight. ;) :)

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I dunno... maybe I'm just different.  When I go to other cities I basically eat, walk around, take pictures of fountains or other weird geometry that I think would make a cool picture, and drink.  I can do all of that here as well.  Unless you're a *destination* attraction, I don't really know what else people are doing...

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For DTO to get that “big city” feel, the future lies in Parramore. A continuous stretch of mid-to-Highrise buildings along Church Street all the way to the Citrus Bowl could help to push the geographic center of “downtown” a bit westward with nodes pushing outward from there. 

If this is possible, the next few years and proposals are key, starting with the Magic development. 

Its entirely plausible - cities across the country are heavily investing in their urban wastelands (some more successful than others).

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1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

For DTO to get that “big city” feel, the future lies in Parramore. A continuous stretch of mid-to-Highrise buildings along Church Street all the way to the Citrus Bowl could help to push the geographic center of “downtown” a bit westward with nodes pushing outward from there. 

If this is possible, the next few years and proposals are key, starting with the Magic development. 

Its entirely plausible - cities across the country are heavily investing in their urban wastelands (some more successful than others).

I think part of that might require a political renegotiation that no one is anxious to wade into yet. 

When the Frederick administration was rezoning to both save downtown neighborhoods and to restrict available land for development (with the goal of increasing density in the core,) an agreement was made to leave much of Parramore alone (given the way development has gone, I'm guessing nothing west of Parramore Ave., but a guess is all it is.)

That followed a lot of negotiation between the city and African-American leaders who were still angry their section of town took the biggest hit when I4 and the E-W went through, and amid much concern over whether the expansion of JYP at the time (a huge Frederick priority back then between OWG Rd and I4) would do the same.

As you might imagine, the discussions were fraught as a lot of racial issues that had stayed just below the surface bubbled up. Since that time 30-some years ago, no one has been anxious to revisit it. It will be interesting to see if any of the political calculus has changed going forward.

Edited by spenser1058

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:43 PM, prahaboheme said:

For DTO to get that “big city” feel, the future lies in Parramore. A continuous stretch of mid-to-Highrise buildings along Church Street all the way to the Citrus Bowl could help to push the geographic center of “downtown” a bit westward with nodes pushing outward from there. 

If this is possible, the next few years and proposals are key, starting with the Magic development. 

Its entirely plausible - cities across the country are heavily investing in their urban wastelands (some more successful than others).

Yeah, I'd like to see that as well, all the way out to the Citrus Bowl as well.

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 12:36 PM, spenser1058 said:

That's why several billion dollars have been invested in downtown over the last several years, right?

That's the thing that escapes me - downtown Orlando is one of the fastest growing cores in the Sunbelt, both in terms of investment and new residents. But spend one day in here and you'd think we were Macon. Fascinating.

good point, but I gotta tell you, I was in Akron, OH this past year and I got a way larger urban feel from their downtown than here.  maybe the slushy snow had something to do with it, but regardless, there seemed to be way more development.  And maybe that's just how it is when comparing ORL to these northern midwestern cities that are mid-sized.  It's like with Nashville...if you look at their skyline and focus on the shorter buildings, there are a ton of them which in contrast with the larger ones makes the place look huge.

I think they tore down too many old buildings downtown over the years.  They tore them down, left vacant parcels for years, and now they are getting filled one project at a time. 

I think another thing here is that there are too many short and long projects versus smaller footprint projects and more of them.  It gives the illusion that there's not much here in numbers versus actual residential units and office space.  Know what I mean?

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2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

DTO imo does not feel like a CBD...it feels more like Brooklyn... just a cool neighborhood...not a place of commerce

Brooklyn was a separate city until 1898 (and even today, some still refer to the merger with NYC as "The Great Mistake of 1898.") Even today, Brooklyn is the most populous borough and has recently had arguably NYC's biggest "cool" factor. I'll take that for us!

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Brooklyn was a separate city until 1898 (and even today, some still refer to the merger with NYC as "The Great Mistake of 1898.") Even today, Brooklyn is the most populous borough and has recently had arguably NYC's biggest "cool" factor. I'll take that for us!

And, according to Mr. Olmstead himself, his greatest professional achievement:  Prospect Park

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Nice pics, but too many are of Orange Avenue. Would've been nice to see some pics from around Central and Magnolia and Lake Eola, etc.

Nice find, though.

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2 hours ago, Dale said:

I miss the magic of Church Street in the 90’s.

It was a hoppin' place back then.

I worked in The Exchange part time for about a year, from around '90 to '91.

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Can Orlando collect a special penny tax to create museums, public market and parks in the city center? I know that Jacksonville had done that to fix up the city.

We might have enough to put in light rail.

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2 hours ago, sunshine said:

Can Orlando collect a special penny tax to create museums, public market and parks in the city center? I know that Jacksonville had done that to fix up the city.

We might have enough to put in light rail.

Light rail would be a colossal waste of money.

 

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1 hour ago, WAJAS98 said:

Explain please.

Why is the burden on me to explain why it’s a waste ? In any case: https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/760155cae7ee4c80205854259f5c669a.pdf

As an aside, my Charlotte has spent as much as a billion dollars on light rail. And the two lines are probably convenient to a fraction of one percent of the population.

Granted, it has stimulated development along the routes. But any sort of transit improvement could do that.

Light rail functions as a civic feather-in-the-cap for the more urban than thou and various elitists.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Dale said:

Why is the burden on me to explain why it’s a waste ?

Because we're not using #MeToo logic here. The person who makes the claim has the burden of proof. Not the other way around.

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51 minutes ago, Dale said:

Why is the burden on me to explain why it’s a waste ? In any case: https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/760155cae7ee4c80205854259f5c669a.pdf

As an aside, my Charlotte has spent as much as a billion dollars on light rail. And the two lines are probably convenient to a fraction of one percent of the population.

Granted, it has stimulated development along the routes. But any sort of transit improvement could do that.

Light rail functions as a civic feather-in-the-cap for the more urban than thou and various elitists.

Ten, fifteen or twenty-odd years from now, it might be a totally different story. Then you all will be glad it's already there and in place and was built for the relative bargain prices of ten to twenty years prior.

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10 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Ten, fifteen or twenty-odd years from now, it might be a totally different story. Then you all will be glad it's already there and in place and was built for the relative bargain prices of ten to twenty years prior.

When both I4 and the East-West opened, they both were woefully underutilized (in the case of the E-W, OC had to bail it out.) I suppose we shouldn't have built those, either. 

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22 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Ten, fifteen or twenty-odd years from now, it might be a totally different story. Then you all will be glad it's already there and in place and was built for the relative bargain prices of ten to twenty years prior.

Seriously doubt it. And besides, Orlando doesn’t need it. I would also cite Indy and Columbus as cities which are: (A) enjoying near Sun Belt growth and (B) are not congested in any way, shape or form ... and neither has rail of any kind.

15 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

When both I4 and the East-West opened, they both were woefully underutilized (in the case of the E-W, OC had to bail it out.) I suppose we shouldn't have built those, either. 

All Orlando needs to do is build several I4’s and E-W’s coasting through the sprawling metro. Then, if you’re still alive, they’ll make you Mayor-for-Life like Buddy.

 

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7 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

Explain please.

Sometimes it’s better to just not give oxygen to the fire.  If we’ve learned anything from this era, it’s that some people dig a way out of a sh*tstorm by creating another one.

Edited by prahaboheme

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14 hours ago, Dale said:

Seriously doubt it. And besides, Orlando doesn’t need it. I would also cite Indy and Columbus as cities which are: (A) enjoying near Sun Belt growth and (B) are not congested in any way, shape or form ... and neither has rail of any kind.

All Orlando needs to do is build several I4’s and E-W’s coasting through the sprawling metro. Then, if you’re still alive, they’ll make you Mayor-for-Life like Buddy.

 

Highways are a far greater waste of money than mass transit.  The ultimate I-4 project is 100s of millions of dollars over budget and will probably end up costing close to 3 billion dollars just to add tolls lanes to I-4 which will be immediately congested because of induceddemand. Indy and Columbus don't have 40 million tourists a year and both have half a million less people. Mass transit is simple geometry, until Orlando gets serious about transit our economy will remain having the lowest wages out of the top 50 metros because companies don't want to move to a city without robust transit.  In addition Indy just passed a sales tax to seriously improve their bus system and create a BRT line and Columbus recently launched a redesign as well. You might be fine with the status quo but as a young person still mad that Orlando bailed on light rail in the 90's, I hope the city has the foresight to get serious about transit so I won't be forced to leave to a city that is willing to accommodate my car free lifestyle that I and so many millennials desire. There's a reason Seattle is the fasting growing big city in the USA; because of their investment in transit! Automobiles are death traps that need to be put down, I hope you reconsider your anti-rail stance for the good of Orlando!

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