Portman SouthEnd – Hawkins btw Ashton and Sycamore.

[atlrvr]

I'll speculate.  Professors and doctors both are well paid and have incredibly low job turnover, so their willingness/desire to be homeowners is very high.  Socially speaking, these professions also skew more liberal which tend to live in more urban environments.

 

[archiham04]

Given the international reputation of the institutions in the area they are also likely to attract residents from international cities that are used to living in an urban environment.

Edited March 22, 2022 by archiham04

[KJHburg]

Getting back to the tower at hand here here are shots from today.  That Portman apartment tower is really going to be a significant tower for that area and all the retail will be centerpiece of Southend and the Rail Trail.   The Sycamore space in the new tower is just a CDS cold dark shell right now but does have a roll up door and plenty of covered patio space. 

[carolina1792]

21 hours ago, nicholas said:

For some reason condo development is much more common in Durham than pretty much every other city in NC.  Not sure of the numbers but I doubt Raleigh and Charlotte combined can match Durham for condos.

Durhamites really love their city and have a lot of civic pride. 

[Reverie39]

16 hours ago, carolina1792 said:

Durhamites really love their city and have a lot of civic pride. 

I don't think I've ever had a conversation about some sort of recent tragedy or crime in Durham without at least one Durhamite jumping in and staunchly defending the city, claiming the story is overblown lol

That's not meant to be a dig at Durham, I think it's a really cool city and probably the cultural heart of the Triangle. So much stuff to do there.

[atlrvr]

The Line is under contract for roughly $210mm or $650/sf.  It's 45% leased, so that's a huge price/sf for a building still in lease up, which gives a sense of how bullish national investors are on Charlotte....and why developers are still planning new projects.

[Blue_Devil]

Just now, atlrvr said:

The Line is under contract for roughly $210mm or $650/sf.  It's 45% leased, so that's a huge price/sf for a building still in lease up, which gives a sense of how bullish national investors are on Charlotte....and why developers are still planning new projects.

Lowes got 800+ for full lease right? With an extremely long term tenant? Yah that is a huge dollar amount for the Line considering 

[Blue_Devil]

Siding has gone up on all of the exposed Line Garage concrete. It looks much better. I’ll try and snap a picture later today.

[Blue_Devil]

Promised picture

[j-man]

I wish this project was more red like the renderings. I still like it, but this feels very cold. 

[JRCLT]

Changed from rust to pre-oxidation.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 3/22/2022 at 6:23 AM, atlrvr said:

I'll speculate.  Professors and doctors both are well paid and have incredibly low job turnover, so their willingness/desire to be homeowners is very high.  Socially speaking, these professions also skew more liberal which tend to live in more urban environments.

 

Also tend to have fewer kids, plus many empty nesters move to be close to university amenities.

 

This project looks very post war Germany. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by CarolinaDaydreamin

[TheMightyBK]

I sincerely hope they’re just taking their time coming up with a good looking screen for the deck. Maybe they could commission an artist to make the whole screen a wind sculpture that changes color and/or texture with the breeze…somebody hit up those wonderwall people (just maybe tone down the color on this one)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SydneyCarton]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:24 PM, Reverie39 said:

I don't think I've ever had a conversation about some sort of recent tragedy or crime in Durham without at least one Durhamite jumping in and staunchly defending the city, claiming the story is overblown lol

That's not meant to be a dig at Durham, I think it's a really cool city and probably the cultural heart of the Triangle. So much stuff to do there.

I like Durham.  I think it's the second most vibrant NC city after Charlotte, but crime is Durham is THROUGH THE ROOF!  It's a city with serious problems.

Anyway, the condo demand is impressive.  I think that many people who work in the Research Triangle buy condos in Durham, as traveling from DT Durham to the RTP is very easy via the Durham Freeway.

Edited April 27, 2022 by SydneyCarton

[KJHburg]

I think this turned out and good and painting the garage area makes it blends a whole lot better.  Most people will walk by this building on the Rail Trail and be more interested in the retail and restaurant spaces.   I like it overall. 

[Guest]

This isn’t finished thought right? It’s hard to tell what will be painted and or covered with screening 

[RANYC]

Anyone disappointed in 110 East with its podium garage has got to absolutely hate the Line.  The Line makes 110 East look anti-car.  I simply can't get into this building at all.  The garage is so prominent and hardly disguised, and garages have never offered any architectural value that I find worth celebrating.  Frankly, I'd much rather have had 6-7 Velvet Taco type structures with varying restaurant and lounge uses, but with pedestrian-accessibility, in the space that the Line occupies.  Again, I'm open-minded and I understand the market reality of providing parking to these intense uses because of what Charlotteans value, but a glass box atop a car cage is hardly a look worth celebrating.  It's just blah-there, and I hope the ground-level uses are creative, engaging, differentiated, and authentically local.  Vantage South End runs so many circles around the Line, it makes me dizzy.  Best thing to hope for now is that the landscape plan included willow oaks that will grow to 80 or 100 feet, clustered and lush, so that from the street you simply take in Charlotte's lovely canopy, and see as little of the bottom half of this structure as possible from the street.

Edited April 29, 2022 by RANYC

[JRCLT]

Charlotteans are no different than any American. We all value cars sometimes even more than other people. It’s the societal construct most of Americans have grown up in. This building aesthetically is decent. Functionally it provides parking for what most workers will be commuting with (surprise! a car). Incorporates decent retail into storefronts on the rail trail and vegetation on top of the deck which is great for people and the environment. Helps with cooling. 110 East is a different beast more floors and more parking. The corner is the only thing not covered and makes it awkward. At least the line (when it’s done) will at least be somewhat consistent throughout. It’s not what we expect but it is what people want and to a certain degree “need” but only because of past decisions and car oriented urban planning and sub-urbanism. This building is merely the culmination of unsustainable planning decisions. Can’t be too upset at its existence and when current conditions haven’t changed enough to accommodate commuting by other means at a critical mass. For what it is. It does way more than 110 East.

[atlrvr]

7 hours ago, RANYC said:

The garage is so prominent and hardly disguised, and garages have never offered any architectural value that I find worth celebrating. ... Vantage South End runs so many circles around the Line, it makes me dizzy. 

Vantage is definitely more engaging from the Carson St side, but on the Catherine St side, I personally find it substantially worse than The Line....or even 110 East.  It's less screened, but what makes it worse is, it's just a garage.  The Line and 110 East you can look up and see something else, but here, all you get is poorly screened garage.  Even when the hotel eventually gets built, it won't be full width of the garage, and the building starts at a much higher elevation.

[kermit]

^ all those cars pouring out into Hawkins and Dunavant are going to make pedestrian life on the rail trail crossings at Remount and Camden measurably worse.

[KJHburg]

at that back corner at the Vantage Southend garage will have retail. 

Perhaps a light is needed at Camden and Tremont or left turns from southbound Camden prohibited to make it more pedestrian safe.  It is really not that safe now and Portmans tower is empty. 

Office towers are going to have parking even along the light rail light.  For example there is an existing LYNX light into the UNC Charlotte campus.  Is the staff and faculty prohibited from driving onto campus?  of course not as the LYNX and even our bus system does not serve the entire region and really never will.  People have to get to work.  Public transportation is an option for mobility not a requirement.    

[Nathan2]

2 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Can’t be too upset at its existence and when current conditions haven’t changed enough to accommodate commuting by other means at a critical mass. For what it is. It does way more than 110 East.

This is essentially just shrugging and kicking the can down the line. Current conditions will never change if this is our attitude towards every development. People on here always say in the future we may be able to not have giant parking garages but our city currently does nothing to set up that future. We all know city council doesn't seem to have any urgency when it comes to transit, so why not build our present to discourage cars in  order to create the urgency for transit. Waiting two decades for a singe light rail line and modest bus upgrades is not the answer. Building this giant podium garage structures is only setting up the future for car dependency even when of if we have increased and more robust transit. 

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, JeanClt said:

Charlotteans are no different than any American. We all value cars sometimes even more than other people. It’s the societal construct most of Americans have grown up in. This building aesthetically is decent. Functionally it provides parking for what most workers will be commuting with (surprise! a car). Incorporates decent retail into storefronts on the rail trail and vegetation on top of the deck which is great for people and the environment. Helps with cooling. 110 East is a different beast more floors and more parking. The corner is the only thing not covered and makes it awkward. At least the line (when it’s done) will at least be somewhat consistent throughout. It’s not what we expect but it is what people want and to a certain degree “need” but only because of past decisions and car oriented urban planning and sub-urbanism. This building is merely the culmination of unsustainable planning decisions. Can’t be too upset at its existence and when current conditions haven’t changed enough to accommodate commuting by other means at a critical mass. For what it is. It does way more than 110 East.

My issue is not with parking, I've been clear that parking will continue to be a feature of these intense uses whether they're on the rail line or not.  My issue is an aesthetic viewpoint that this car cage of a garage is far too prominent in the overall design.

1 hour ago, atlrvr said:

Vantage is definitely more engaging from the Carson St side, but on the Catherine St side, I personally find it substantially worse than The Line....or even 110 East.  It's less screened, but what makes it worse is, it's just a garage.  The Line and 110 East you can look up and see something else, but here, all you get is poorly screened garage.  Even when the hotel eventually gets built, it won't be full width of the garage, and the building starts at a much higher elevation.

The glass box office of the Line isn't the full width of its garage either from what I have seen.  Also, at least Vantage is a complex which includes 2 office buildings without an embedded garage, and with a green-space plaza.  I personally find the garage far superior to that of the Line with far better screening, even though I generally hate garages.  All of this is subjective and a matter of individual taste, just making my critique clear.

Does anyone know whether the Line include retail or other ground-level uses fronting Hawkins Street?

By the way, I assume this is a community that can handle nuance.  Yes, I have a harsh critique of the Line's design, but I'm thrilled for the jobs it will house, for example the 1.5 floors occupied by Silicon Valley Bank, and on balance, I'll tolerate the design if it's bringing new employers and new employment opportunities to the area and in center city.  In a place like Jacksonville, FL, Silicon Valley jobs would have gone to a sprawling, surface-lot mess of a suburban office park with walkability being about as foreign a concept as Pluto.

There is work to be done getting corporate site selectors and real estate offices on-board with designs inviting and even promoting carbon-neutral commuting.  I think we're closer to that than we once were with so much attention on companies thinking about their carbon footprint in every way possible.

Edited April 29, 2022 by RANYC

[JRCLT]

This is essentially just shrugging and kicking the can down the line. Current conditions will never change if this is our attitude towards every development. People on here always say in the future we may be able to not have giant parking garages but our city currently does nothing to set up that future. We all know city council doesn't seem to have any urgency when it comes to transit, so why not build our present to discourage cars in  order to create the urgency for transit. Waiting two decades for a singe light rail line and modest bus upgrades is not the answer. Building this giant podium garage structures is only setting up the future for car dependency even when of if we have increased and more robust transit. 

That is not what I mean by no means. I am saying that the current conditions do not economically allow for that. I’m saying there needs to be ground work to achieve that goal. I’m saying you can’t build a building without a foundation as it will surely without a doubt collapse. It will. That’s what I am saying. I’m not saying it is acceptable to me. I personally would rather not see cars or car-centric oriented facilities and amenities in urban cores. Simply though that is where we are at right now and realistically there needs to be a whole lot more done to create that groundwork to allow for the economics of careless developments to be successful and in fact preferable. Like I said in my comment: While It isn’t great or what we (including me) would like to see, it does what it does with what it has.

[CLT2014]

On 3/22/2022 at 11:08 AM, KJHburg said:

Getting back to the tower at hand here here are shots from today.  That Portman apartment tower is really going to be a significant tower for that area and all the retail will be centerpiece of Southend and the Rail Trail.   The Sycamore space in the new tower is just a CDS cold dark shell right now but does have a roll up door and plenty of covered patio space. 

When you ignore the nice glass on top of this building and see what the actual retail spaces look like at a human scale.... YIKES. This is some cold / sterile space. That view on the rail trail in the first pic is sad... they need to get some vines and planters installed to soften those dystopian columns and make this looks like it isn't Belarus. Everything is just plain cold concrete at eye level and the painting they just starting doing helps some.... but it is still cold. They could have even covered the columns in a modern tile or something with some color. 

Kind of sad when retail spaces in town are plain concrete and then out in places like Fort Mill, new build retail construction in places like Kingsley include high quality materials and variation in patterns: Different brick textures, a patterned tile under the windows, high quality metal choices, quality windows, et... 

I just wish The Line focused more on the human side of things since it has such a great location on the Rail Trail... but the retail looks like such an afterthought and all the design standard went to the glass box that sits on top for the office tenant (that most of us will never use / go in).

Edited April 29, 2022 by CLT2014