Pedestrian Shaming in Charlotte

[Vitamin_N]

Question for the traffic experts: what can they do to make the intersection of 3rd St and the 277 exit ramp safer? Because of the fact that you have people turning onto a busy one-way street everybody looks left while they're turning right and they don't necessarily look forward--even when they're turning right on red and pedestrians have the right of way. It's fine if you're coming from downtown because they see you but if you're coming from the other direction they don't always see you.

I have to be very careful  at this intersection and even so I've almost been hit once or twice, and there are a few other occasions  where I would have been hit if I hadn't anticipated somebody driving through the crosswalk. At the same time, I understand why people drive like this--I also used the 277 ramp as part of my commute for many years  and I always had to remind myself to watch for pedestrians coming from the right while trying to look left to see if I could turn. It's a bad intersection and I don't know how to make it safe other than cut down all the trees obscuring visibility to the right.

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, Vitamin_N said:

Question for the traffic experts: what can they do to make the intersection of 3rd St and the 277 exit ramp safer? Because of the fact that you have people turning onto a busy one-way street everybody looks left while they're turning right and they don't necessarily look forward--even when they're turning right on red and pedestrians have the right of way. It's fine if you're coming from downtown because they see you but if you're coming from the other direction they don't always see you.

I have to be very careful  at this intersection and even so I've almost been hit once or twice, and there are a few other occasions  where I would have been hit if I hadn't anticipated somebody driving through the crosswalk. At the same time, I understand why people drive like this--I also used the 277 ramp as part of my commute for many years  and I always had to remind myself to watch for pedestrians coming from the right while trying to look left to see if I could turn. It's a bad intersection and I don't know how to make it safe other than cut down all the trees obscuring visibility to the right.

Making it a "no right on red" intersection would help, but it isn't a great solution.

[JHart]

9 hours ago, nakers2 said:

I don't think its a negative thing to give pedestrians advice as well. "Watch for me NC" also promotes driver safety as well. Its a two way street, no pun intended, a city, especially a city center can be a cacophony of noise and distractions, and even me, a cautious and pedestrian aware driver have made the mistake of not noticing a lone pedestrian in a crosswalk, or the errant cyclist. As for farther out, yes, the city needs to do a lot to better pedestrian safety, but there's a lot of common sense things that pedestrians need to exercise as well. The section of the Plaza between Sugar Creek and Eastway is a great example, at night it is poorly lit, and during the day it is a near constant traffic flow, yet people try to cross all the time. Some pedestrians and cyclists will try to "prove a point" to drivers, but fail to understand that even if you're in the right, it's not much fun being right when you're dead. 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article235054112.html 

This is another one that happened on Parkwood here in Charlotte within a week. The video posted to the story is CMPD going through pedestrian safety tips just as you talked about. This is a section of road that is supposed to be getting a road diet, but not yet. You have roads like Parkwood and Matheson that are 4 lanes with only 1 traffic light between Plaza and N Davidson for Parkwood, and 1 between N Tryon and Plaza for Matheson which has drivers routinely going 60 mph. There is an element of pedestrian safety, but if there is 1 crossing over half a mile or more, people have to cross the street on high speed lanes and you will continue to have traffic deaths

[videtur quam contuor]

Power boat must give way to sail vessel. However a Sunfish crossing the bow of a supertanker is foolish. 

(to assume all parties are educated, competent and aware provides income for insurance companies and lawyers)

[kermit]

Paging the local Vision Zero program....

While Oslo managed to achieve zero pedestrian deaths in 2019 Charlotte pedestrian deaths are at a 30 year high.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

In addition to Oslo, Helsinki managed to have zero pedestrian deaths in 2019: https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/95544/city-of-helsinki-records-zero-pedestrian-fatalities-in-2019/

Meanwhile in Charlotte:

Quote

Twenty-eight pedestrians died in 2019, marking the third straight year in which fatalities set or matched record highs, according to Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police data.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/public-safety-blog/article239925293.html

[southslider]

As long as land develops into denser forms faster than roads transform into safer streets, then pedestrian safety will continue to get worse before getting better.

[InSouthPark]

7 hours ago, kermit said:

In addition to Oslo, Helsinki managed to have zero pedestrian deaths in 2019: https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/95544/city-of-helsinki-records-zero-pedestrian-fatalities-in-2019/

Meanwhile in Charlotte:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/public-safety-blog/article239925293.html

Well everywhere in Europe that I have been, everyone uses cross walks and actually waits for the walk signal.    People don't just dart in and out of traffic, wearing dark clothes, at night in the rain.  

[CLTranspo]

1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

Well everywhere in Europe that I have been, everyone uses cross walks and actually waits for the walk signal.    People don't just dart in and out of traffic, wearing dark clothes, at night in the rain.  

They also actually have cross walks and reliable walk signals in most locations pedestrians need them. 

[kermit]

2 hours ago, InSouthPark said:

Well everywhere in Europe that I have been, everyone uses cross walks and actually waits for the walk signal.    People don't just dart in and out of traffic, wearing dark clothes, at night in the rain.  

Europeans don’t wear black? They always stay inside when its raining (or avoid going out during their  18 hours of winter darkness per day)? Northern Europeans  do usually wait at crosswalks, but there is plenty of other stupid crap happening on the streets all around.

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by kermit

[NYtoCLT]

2 hours ago, InSouthPark said:

Well everywhere in Europe that I have been, everyone uses cross walks and actually waits for the walk signal.    People don't just dart in and out of traffic, wearing dark clothes, at night in the rain.  

Pedestrian shaming in a thread on pedestrian shaming.  So meta.

[kermit]

Headline shows the ridiculousness of our Vision Zero efforts:

Quote

Leaders want pedestrian safety addressed with plan to widen busy road

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/pedestrian-safety-addressed-with-plan-place-widen-busy-road/72N6JFSNRBHZZGXW2GLWMXLPNE/

[southslider]

The real priorities of cities aren't in their visions but in their budgets.

[kermit]

The Observer tells us that driverless trucks down in York County are killing people. Apparently no one knows how to get the trucks to stop killing people, but no one seems to be worried about the death toll, so I guess its all fine. (I thought the local press had moved past this car and driver apologist writing style -- someone was to blame for this crash, we know it was not the truck's fault)

Quote

A pedestrian was killed late Wednesday in a collision with a truck near Carowinds in York County, officials said.

The person was crossing the road when struck by a 2003 truck, Jones said.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article241520866.html

Edited March 26, 2020 by kermit

[kermit]

Why does the city still make us press beg buttons?

[kermit]

Julie Eiselt is continuing to low-key push for more open streets in Charlotte (I am not aware of any activity on this other than social media however). We really need it, Dilworth, Southend, Wilmore, Sedgefield and NoDa have been (in my experience) very crowded for pedestrians. Sidewalk capacity is woefully inadequate for current conditions. And, no, it would not consume any police resources to do this, just toss up some no through traffic signs in the middle of the road and a few cones.

 

 

[NYtoCLT]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

Julie Eiselt is continuing to low-key push for more open streets in Charlotte (I am not aware of any activity on this other than social media however). We really need it, Dilworth, Southend, Wilmore, Sedgefield and NoDa have been (in my experience) very crowded for pedestrians. Sidewalk capacity is woefully inadequate for current conditions. And, no, it would not consume any police resources to do this, just toss up some no through traffic signs in the middle of the road and a few cones.

 

 

We build parking for Black Friday (actually more, since even on Black Friday there is usually open parking), while we build pedestrian spaces only if there is anything left over.  If there were a crisis where we needed parking, we would wonderfully positioned.  Unfortunately, in the current crisis when we need places where pedestrians can safely be without overcrowding, we are highlighting how little public space we really have.

Even in our "walkable" neighborhoods, we have narrow sidewalks that don't allow for passing while being 6 feet apart.  A lot of neighborhoods don't even have sidewalks so I guess at least there's that?

Given the lack of traffic, there is no reason not to close a series of streets to through traffic and open it up to pedestrians.  

[kermit]

Pretty underwhelmed by the local open streets efforts.

Unrelated:
 

[southslider]

^Both advisory signs alert motorists to pay attention and safely interact with other life often found in and along the road. But only the pedestrian is shamed for crossing away from the sign.

[davidclt]

On 5/8/2020 at 10:06 AM, kermit said:

Pretty underwhelmed by the local open streets efforts.

It wasn't listed on the home page but I finally found the page for the Shared Streets initiative here in Charlotte.

https://charlottenc.gov/Transportation/Programs/Pages/CharlotteSharedStreets.aspx

Looking around that site more, I'm unclear on Charlotte's efforts on Vision Zero: https://charlottenc.gov/VisionZero/Pages/VisionZero.aspx? What's actually being done and why is it not being done with more intensity?

[tozmervo]

23 minutes ago, davidclt said:

It wasn't listed on the home page but I finally found the page for the Shared Streets initiative here in Charlotte.

https://charlottenc.gov/Transportation/Programs/Pages/CharlotteSharedStreets.aspx

Looking around that site more, I'm unclear on Charlotte's efforts on Vision Zero: https://charlottenc.gov/VisionZero/Pages/VisionZero.aspx? What's actually being done and why is it not being done with more intensity?

The page you linked to lists several of the projects like signalization, sidewalk construction, etc. I'm sure they have mountains of ideas for projects and all it takes is funding. 

Having said all that, I very much fall into the glass-half-full side of this issue. Charlotte has improved by leaps and bounds in accommodations just in the past 10 years. There will always be ways to improve, but we've been headed in the right direction for quite a while now. 

[kermit]

If I ever learn ArcGIS pro I’ll make one of these for Charlotte...

 

 

[EllAyyDub]

Would be fun to see by AADT also.

[videtur quam contuor]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198220300294

Study introduces the concept of "windshield bias". Those who see the traffic world through a windshield are more concerned about "distracted pedestrians". If one spends nearly all time looking out of the vehicle rather than being IN the pedestrian experience, then bias corrodes.

Lots of other good ideas and conclusions.

[kermit]

1 hour ago, tarhoosier said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2590198220300294

Study introduces the concept of "windshield bias". Those who see the traffic world through a windshield are more concerned about "distracted pedestrians". If one spends nearly all time looking out of the vehicle rather than being IN the pedestrian experience, then bias corrodes.

Lots of other good ideas and conclusions.

Great paper, thanks!