Another Predsboy18 Rant

[Predsboy18]

If you'll allow me a space to rant, I'll move ahead, or if this should be in a particular thread, rather than its own, I apologize.

It's been a while since I've posted on here, through rant, photo, or comment, but this one came to me at work today. It's about the near vitriolic hatred some around here have about the growth and development. On Facebook (yes, I know, the great bastion for free and open dialogue that it is) I'm a member of a couple of groups that discuss the history of the city, and for most of the time, it is indeed that, but too often, it turns into an indictment on the city itself. I don't know that anyone is to blame for the explosion, and let's face it, even the most optimistic among us coudn't have seen this coming 20 years ago. We were still the misfit city, still Atlanta's little brother, still that little hick town with 500k people.

Yes, the growth has been insane to say the least, to a point where even I, someone whom years ago dreamed of Nashville stepping out of the shadows, and taking its place among the big boys, even I sometimes stop and think about how we might be growing too fast. I soon realize that with the growth, comes opportunities, and from that, comes the opportunity to shake the hillbilly image that's been emblazoned on our great city since who knows when, and reinforced by images on TV and in film. This has been an opportunity for us to make the city of Nashville what we all want it to be, and I don't think I'm talking out of turn when I say "all of us" either. We wouldn't have monthly meetings if this wasn't happening, or at least they'd be over a lot sooner than they are.  I'd say we're all pretty hawkish on development, and we might not always agree on all subjects, but we do believe that we have an unique opportunity, and that the city must embrace it. Sadly, some feel differently.

On these Facebook pages, which I won't name, people reminisce about what Nashville was, which is nice, I certainly like to look back to see how far we've come. These pages also breed something very dangerous, it's a sort of "Nativism" among long time residents, that wish Nashville would "go back to how it used to be", and want to stop the growth. I see their point, only to the  fact that the infrastructure has been desperately lagging behind the pace of development, and the State of Tennessee has proven to be completely useless at best, and adversarial at worst. Yes, traffic can be horrid at times, but 85-90% of the time, a slowdown is all you'll get, not complete gridlock. The only way that really happens is if there's a wreck somewhere.

I'm always curious to wonder what time these people would like to go back to. Is it the 50s-60s, when everything was downtown? (An ironic approach if you ask me) Is it the 70s and 80s, a time when strip clubs and adult theaters dominated Lower Broad, and you didn't go downtown unless you had business there? Perhaps it's the 90s, the transition when a number of buildings were boarded up because the porn shops had been run out, but other businesses hadn't caught on. I question their logic as well. Why WOULD you want to go back to another time? Right now, infrastructure issues aside, this is the best time ever to be in Nashville. With the exception of the "theme bars" which pollute Lower Broad, the nightlife here has never been as vibrant. There is quite literally something to do every night of the week, a concert at every venue several nights a week, major acts make Nashville a destination, and the conventions that come here, thanks to the Music City Center, have made numerous companies want to relocate here, whether small scale, or moving a corporate headquarters here. We live in the best times this city has ever known, but even with all that, there are those that will complain.

I also get the point that with the growth comes the closing of businesses we've grown up with, but that's the price for progress. In one comment in one of the groups, the individual made perhaps the best point when they said that "The Nashville you used to know paved over the Nashville someone else used to know", and that's the truth. What we long time residents consider our memories, replaced the memories that others had. It's progress. It's not always pretty, but that's the price you pay to live in a city that is changing for the better. I don't like every facet of it, namely the "tall skinnys" that pollute the historic areas of the city, but as they come now, they will be gone one day, replaced by the building fad of that day.

One thing I wonder is how many of those that complain about the development go to hockey or football games. That was growth and development. How about those that go to Providence in Mt. Juliet, or The Avenue in Murfreesboro? that's growth and development. Or Opry Mills, or the Music City Center, or any of the other countless buildings and developments that have sprung up in the region over the past 2 decades. You can't like this one, but hate that, it's all a part of the growth of the region as a whole. As Nashville continues to grow, something that shows few signs of slowing, it becomes imperative that the city adapt to that growth in the best ways that it can. Creating a regional transportation plan that doesn't just put more buses on the road. Nashville is still in the middle of an amazing renaissance, and as part of this group, we can help shape this city to be the best it can be by consulting with our leaders, and getting our ideas out there. Progress is inevitable, and there are those that will fight kicking and screaming to  stop it, but eventually we will do what's best for our city.

[MLBrumby]

This is NOT something I encounter. Not anything that bothers me. Coffee House... PLEASE!!! 

[Mr_Bond]

Yesterday I had this thought while driving from East Nashville into downtown via Shelby Avenue and KVB: in 30 years, I'll have clear memories of the "Nashville Boom of the late 'teens" while most people with consider my memories to be somewhat interesting trivia.

And, yes, this is the type of topic that goes in the Coffee House.

[smeagolsfree]

I am sort of OK with this being here as we have a number of other topics that have touched on this and many of our topics slide off the rails into the depths of hell more times than not. This is where we had it before we had a coffee house and so much gets lost over there and forgotten. Lets just try and keep things contained to the reasoning of the people that don't want change and why people ARE moving here and embracing the changing landscape that is Nashville.

Soon these people will be dead and it will not matter and it will be the millennials turn to complain about things changing . I think this is just human nature to bitch about change. Its sort of like the frog in warm water vs the frog in hot water. Right now those folks are the frog and Nashville is boiling hot and those people were jolted into reality from the boiling hot water that is Nashville growth.

You either embrace it and go with the flow, or move away. You cant stop it and those folks just do not realize that. The new urbanization of America is not just happening in Nashville but is happening in midsize and large cities all over the country. Smaller cities and rural areas are paying the price because there are no job opportunities, no entertainment venues, and nothing to keep their young people there.

We have many flaws, and they need to be addressed, and soon. Our growth can be our own worse enemy and deterrent.

[Dale]

Change is inevitable. But no all of it is good. Witness music. Witness NYC ...

https://harpers.org/archive/2018/07/the-death-of-new-york-city-gentrification/

[Mr_Bond]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

I am sort of OK with this being here as we have a number of other topics that have touched on this and many of our topics slide off the rails into the depths of hell more times than not. This is where we had it before we had a coffee house and so much gets lost over there and forgotten. Lets just try and keep things contained to the reasoning of the people that don't want change and why people ARE moving here and embracing the changing landscape that is Nashville.

In light of the Mods approval, @Predsboy18, would you consider giving the thread an appropriate name so that other UPers can quickly find this new home for "Change and Growth" (or whatever you want to call it)?

[Jamie Hall]

I had this same thought a couple of days ago when Facebook suggested a Nashville history group as a possible interest. I clicked the link and scanned a few of the group posts and comments -- they were overwhelmingly wistful of the "old days" and against most growth of any kind. Among the complaints I read: Nashville is now too big, there's too much traffic, too much crime, too much construction, and too many people moving here who don't speak "American" (yes, that was the word one poster used).

I opted to not join the group or read any further, because I know that with some folks, their mind is made up. And I try to remember that as I get older, it is harder to adjust to change, especially when it happens fast. So I try to stay respectful of people who feel that way.

But in dealing with people who do feel that way about Nashville growth, I wish I knew a way to convince them that a lot of things happening here are for the best and not a negative. I could use numbers and statistics and all that. But would it make any difference?

[Mr_Bond]

55 minutes ago, Jamie Hall said:

I had this same thought a couple of days ago when Facebook suggested a Nashville history group as a possible interest. I clicked the link and scanned a few of the group posts and comments -- they were overwhelmingly wistful of the "old days" and against most growth of any kind. Among the complaints I read: Nashville is now too big, there's too much traffic, too much crime, too much construction, and too many people moving here who don't speak "American" (yes, that was the word one poster used).

I opted to not join the group or read any further, because I know that with some folks, their mind is made up. And I try to remember that as I get older, it is harder to adjust to change, especially when it happens fast. So I try to stay respectful of people who feel that way.

But in dealing with people who do feel that way about Nashville growth, I wish I knew a way to convince them that a lot of things happening here are for the best and not a negative. I could use numbers and statistics and all that. But would it make any difference?

When I moved to Nashville 26 years ago, I recall seeing bumper stickers that said "Welcome to Nashville!  Now y'all go back home."  After not seeing one for several years, they've recently re-emerged.

[fishsticks176]

In my experience a lot of the hate has come from a certain faction of lower-middle class long-time residents. This city hasn’t just been growing, it’s been entering a new league—higher class residents moving in with higher incomes and nicer, larger new homes. Fancier cars, gentrified neighborhoods, hipper people... Fifteen years ago it was OK to live in a small weathered brick ranch and make $35k/year and not dress like an Instagram model and not know which cool beer to order or cool stylish restaurant to go to.

 

I think a lot of the complaints come from people who suddenly feel negatively compared to everything that’s going on around them. Suddenly they’re living next to someone making triple their salary in a towering new construction with a Lexus in the driveway. People get threatened by that. Their self-esteem takes a hit and they feel like they’re being looked down on, and then they get defensive and deride transplants and growth and hipsters and developments. Their status as “natives” is the only thing they have and so they try to use it to knock others down. It’s tribalism.

Yeah, in a sense they do want to go back to a Nashville with seedy peepshows on Broadway and hookers down Dickerson and dilapidated warehouses everywhere. They feel far more out of place in the new Nashville.

They could grow with the city—we certainly have the opportunities here—but I guess many of them feel that they can’t, or they’re intimidated, or they’re set in their ways and just don’t want to. 

[Dale]

16 minutes ago, fishsticks176 said:

In my experience a lot of the hate has come from a certain faction of lower-middle class long-time residents. This city hasn’t just been growing, it’s been entering a new league—higher class residents moving in with higher incomes and nicer, larger new homes. Fancier cars, gentrified neighborhoods, hipper people... Fifteen years ago it was OK to live in a small weathered brick ranch and make $35k/year and not dress like an Instagram model and not know which cool beer to order or cool stylish restaurant to go to.

 

I think a lot of the complaints come from people who suddenly feel negatively compared to everything that’s going on around them. Suddenly they’re living next to someone making triple their salary in a towering new construction with a Lexus in the driveway. People get threatened by that. Their self-esteem takes a hit and they feel like they’re being looked down on, and then they get defensive and deride transplants and growth and hipsters and developments. Their status as “natives” is the only thing they have and so they try to use it to knock others down. It’s tribalism.

Yeah, in a sense they do want to go back to a Nashville with seedy peepshows on Broadway and hookers down Dickerson and dilapidated warehouses everywhere. They feel far more out of place in the new Nashville.

They could grow with the city—we certainly have the opportunities here—but I guess many of them feel that they can’t, or they’re intimidated, or they’re set in their ways and just don’t want to. 

Interesting ... so the phenomenon doesn’t go the other way ? Newbies with triple salaries and Lexus’s don’t deride the hillbilly rubes they displace ?

[fishsticks176]

I’ll preface this with saying that I’m not part of the monied transplants so I can’t say with absolute certainty, but no, I would imagine that they don’t.  

I hear this a lot regarding “us vs them” situations. Memphians hate Nashville and believe that we’re all over here talking smack about them constantly. There was a thread recently on r/Tennessee where rural residents were casually mentioning how much city folk look down on them, which I rarely encounter here in the city. Baseless beliefs that others look down on you are harmful and almost never true.

Edited December 6, 2018 by fishsticks176

[Dale]

As I acknowledged, change is inevitable. But the article I ascribes creedance to those who wring their hands about it. 

[Mr_Bond]

55 minutes ago, fishsticks176 said:

I hear this a lot regarding “us vs them” situations. Memphians hate Nashville and believe that we’re all over here talking smack about them constantly. There was a thread recently on r/Tennessee where rural residents were casually mentioning how much city folk look down on them, which I rarely encounter here in the city. Baseless beliefs that others look down on you are harmful and almost never true.

A wise man said to me, "When I was 17, I cared a lot about what others thought of me.  At 37, I had grown to the place where I no longer cared what people thought of me.  At 57, I now know that they were never thinking of me in the first place."

[uberkarnie]

Growth and change are inherent in U.S. history. Some places boom and some whither, but no place stays the same. For many reasons, I think Nashville was insulated from some aspects of this natural cycle for a large part of the latter 20th century. There was a sort of artificial inhibitor that restricted these trends and may well contribute to the pent up demand this boom seems to be revealing. Not all change is good. The farm where I grew up is now a strip mall and big box store. While it serves the needs of the 50,000+ people in the community today, I think there was inherent value that was lost when the <1,000 person farming community is gone forever. Most of this for me is personal nostalgia, but the side effects of large scale growth are that some communities lose long established identities. To reclaim that way of life means moving ever further away from often multi-generational roots. I hate when the places I love close down in Nashville; but every growing city experiences this. We may be realizing a larger than normal turnover due to the nature of our current transformation, and that makes it even harder for some long-time residents, especially the more sentimental types.

I do have concerns with some of the growth. While tourism is clearly critical to the broader viability of our city (and long has been) many of these development trends don't directly serve locals. While growth has the ability to expand opportunities for all of us, I'm unlikely to personally engage with  any hotel development, or the convention center, or most of the business relocations.  Resistance to these changes reflects the fact that for some, this growth doesn't directly improve their lives. Often, it serves to complicate them. My primary concern is that gentrification further stratifies the community and ultimately leads to reduction of economic diversity. The loss of affordable housing and the erosion of culturally significant neighborhoods is often overlooked as cities boom. Yes, many places are safer now and property values are increasing; but community is important even when intertwined with issues of poverty and crime. Many people in these neighborhoods will continue to provide a backbone for Nashville's economy, yet increasingly they won't be able to live in the city they serve. Hopefully wage growth and affordable housing initiatives will provide balance so that a greater percentage of our neighbors can stay in the city they also have long loved and subsequently enjoy the positive benefits of growth.

Edited December 7, 2018 by uberkarnie

[satalac]

22 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Soon these people will be dead