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Orange & Robinson Apartments | 10-story residential [Proposed]

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18 hours ago, JFW657 said:

The so-called "architect" for that abomination needs to have his license yanked.

It's a Finfrock building.  They do their own building design through proprietary AutoCAD software.  I don't think aesthetic requirements are important drivers, and probably don't staff "architects" with creative ideas.  They remind me a lot of Novare, who did Skyhouse.  Considering Orlando's challenges with affordable housing, you'll probably need to get used to concrete boxes like this if it's going to be addressed heading into the cyclical downturn next year.

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20 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s interesting to me given that San Antonio has the Riverwalk. Given many on here often are dismissive of downtown O-town as being of no interest to our tourists, can you talk about that more? Also, is the Alamo close to downtown? (Obviously, I’ve not been to San Antonio so your impressions are great.)

Downtown SA is very spread out, with lots of surface parking lots. Honestly it's kinda ugly, not as cozy or intimate as Orlando. There are hardly residents living dt, but theres several plans for condos. So it's kinda dead at the street level.

Now when you go down a level to the river walk, its like the great gatsby lol. Rich tourists partying and spending money. It's like a different city. It feels like Disney, clean and pretty landscapes, but without the fakeness. As cool as it is, locals do not hang there because the food and drinks are tourists price. Most locals hang out at the Pearl, st Mary strip, Southtown, and rather small gay strip. And yes the Alamo is right dt next to riverwalk. 

What dt Orlando has are tons of ppl living downtown, but we need to lure more businesses, retails, and yes touristy chains. Designing great blgs and condos is the easiest thing Orlando can do, and we are failing miserably with projects like this.

 

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DT SA has a Macy's/Mall, tons of retail/restaurants/tourists/ observation tower/ convention center...Game over

my favorite is The Pearl neighborhood. incredible to see a beautiful trendy neighborhood restored around a gigantic historic brewery. Awesome place!

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What interests me is that I just walked over to the coin laundry in Thornton Park to get change. I could barely negotiate the sidewalks along the way because of the street activity and folks visiting the local bars and restaurants.

As someone who lives downtown, the amount of activity I saw at 5:30 pm on a Saturday (and most of the time these days) doesn’t seem to jive with the urban ghost town so many posters on here tell us about. 

Further, my Publix at the Paramount gets more crowded every time I go shopping. What in the world am I missing? 

I also have to make sure that I get early shifts for work or else taking a circuitous route home in the evening because if I don’t I frequently get caught in a vortex of traffic exiting I4 between events at the Am and at DPAC (woe is me if there’s also a game at OCSC.) 

Here I am wondering if I’m too old to navigate this ever growing sea of humanity after decades downtown and when I come in here it’s supposedly nothing but crickets. Fascinating.

 

Edited by spenser1058
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On 12/15/2018 at 5:20 PM, jliv said:

It's a Finfrock building.  They do their own building design through proprietary AutoCAD software.  I don't think aesthetic requirements are important drivers, and probably don't staff "architects" with creative ideas.  They remind me a lot of Novare, who did Skyhouse.  Considering Orlando's challenges with affordable housing, you'll probably need to get used to concrete boxes like this if it's going to be addressed heading into the cyclical downturn next year.

More and more of the financial pundits are predicting a slowdown or full-fledged recession late next year (just in time for the 2020 elections).

What we don’t know is how badly Orlando will be affected. While it’s anyone’s guess at this point, we know local events determine how we fare relative to the national economy.

For example, Orlando got hammered in the ‘74-‘75 and 2008 downturns. OTOH, the 1981-83 recession passed Orlando by. A big reason for that was the opening of EPCOT and the associated infrastructure investments at the time.

Similarly, perhaps the biggest investments in our local economy ever will still be pumping cash (and jobs) into the area, and the first returns will be seen next fall.

It’s quite possible Orlando may come through whatever happens relatively unscathed. Time to break out your crystal balls!

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Democrats are praying for a full-blown recession in the coming months. The concensus appears to point to slowing growth in 2019 (because where does a First World Country go from 4% growth ?), with chance of recession in 2020, albeit nothing like pictures falling off the wall 2008.

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23 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

This doesn't belong on this message board.  You have no idea what anybody is praying for.

Thank you.

tenor.gif

"The Demmycrats!!! The Demmycrats!!!"

Edited by JFW657
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2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

More and more of the financial pundits are predicting a slowdown or full-fledged recession late next year (just in time for the 2020 elections).

What we don’t know is how badly Orlando will be affected. While it’s anyone’s guess at this point, we know local events determine how we fare relative to the national economy.

For example, Orlando got hammered in the ‘74-‘75 and 2008 downturns. OTOH, the 1981-83 recession passed Orlando by. A big reason for that was the opening of EPCOT and the associated infrastructure investments at the time.

Similarly, perhaps the biggest investments in our local economy ever will still be pumping cash (and jobs) into the area, and the first returns will be seen next fall.

It’s quite possible Orlando may come through whatever happens relatively unscathed. Time to break out your crystal balls!

Orlando probably isn't as overbuilt with risky investments this time around.   Since the Great Recession, projects have taken longer to be funded, and much of the population growth has been absorbing all of that excess inventory.  I actually think we're due another tech bust, frankly, which will hit places like the SF Bay Area, Seattle, and Austin hardest.   I'm really interested to see what happens with Google and Facebook; since the last recession they're built near monopolies on digital advertising, and ad spending is quite sensitive to economic downturns.

Edited by jliv
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2 hours ago, cwetteland said:

This doesn't belong on this message board.  You have no idea what anybody is praying for.

I’m slow to learn that one has to pick sides intelligently and better disguise political talking points to find one’s self among the beloved. 

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So this is on the agenda of tomorrow's MPB at 830 AM.  Anyone able to go and represent our concerns?  For me, even ignoring the height aspect (although that does need mentioned), I'm vehemently opposed to the variance for the ground-floor amenities.  The corner of Orange and Robinson *needs* a signature draw.  There's already a "dead" block from an urbanism perspective between Jefferson and Robinson because of the Cathedral and First Green Bank.  The fabric can survive one dead block.  Asking for two (I love DoveCote, but BoA is a fortress), is probably going to be too much no matter how successful Zoi / X ever become.

Figures, the one day I have to be on Disney property at 7AM is the one day I want to complain to a public board.  I probably can't get there until 845 at the earliest.

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4 hours ago, Dale said:

Democrats are praying for a full-blown recession in the coming months. The concensus appears to point to slowing growth in 2019 (because where does a First World Country go from 4% growth ?), with chance of recession in 2020, albeit nothing like pictures falling off the wall 2008.

Please take this garbage somewhere else.

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1 hour ago, Dale said:

I’m slow to learn that one has to pick sides intelligently and better disguise political talking points to find one’s self among the beloved. 

I don't like anyone's politics more than anyone else's.  I think your approach is a lot more hostile, though.  I think people are more likely to let things slide when the opinion doesn't come with a free nut punch.

Although, I've repeatedly asked Spense (someone I very much enjoy reading/interacting with on this forum) to check his politics out of non-political threads, too.  Truthfully, though, I don't see many people (outside of his very passionate UCF thread) getting nut punched by Spense over their politics. 

It's not what you say, it is how you say it.  I suppose.  Especially, when you spew rhetoric and anger.  I don't think 95% or more of people in any party want a recession.  I think that is reserved for the occasional nutjob and some very, very few rich folks looking to buy up cheap stocks to make them richer.

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1 hour ago, Dale said:

I’m slow to learn that one has to pick sides intelligently and better disguise political talking points to find one’s self among the beloved. 

I don't have a problem with people expressing political viewpoints when talking about urban policies on an urban interest board, but you can make political points without taking pot shots at an entire group of voters with unfair generalisations.  Not triggered here; just think there are more civil ways to argue conservative/libertarian viewpoints without the typical "angry white male" BS.  You'd be surprised: some of us "libtards" may even like some of Trump's foreign policy actions, like holding China and NATO to accounts.  There is another way to politely disagree while finding some common ground.  I'm so tired on the online flame wars.

Edited by jliv
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15 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

I don't like anyone's politics more than anyone else's.  I think your approach is a lot more hostile, though.  I think people are more likely to let things slide when the opinion doesn't come with a free nut punch.

Although, I've repeatedly asked Spense (someone I very much enjoy reading/interacting with on this forum) to check his politics out of non-political threads, too.  Truthfully, though, I don't see many people (outside of his very passionate UCF thread) getting nut punched by Spense over their politics. 

It's not what you say, it is how you say it.  I suppose.  Especially, when you spew rhetoric and anger.  I don't think 95% or more of people in any party want a recession.  I think that is reserved for the occasional nutjob and some very, very few rich folks looking to buy up cheap stocks to make them richer.

I guess, or maybe just because boards like this almost invariably lean left. The offshoot is that the majority are comfortable inserting their politics as though they were accepted neutral-givens. The result of this sort of warm and cozy complacency is that one leaves one’s nuts exposed.

Or put another way: *Gratuitous conservative-bashing* ... engendering pushback ... engendering “WTF are you so hateful and angry ?!?!” and “Grr, take that garbage elsewhere!”

Hey, at least I’m not bashing Orlando every post. So, unless the Heckler’s Veto is invoked against me, I’m a net-win for the board!

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5 hours ago, Dale said:

because where does a First World Country go from 4% growth ?

Just to clarify, the US has not had annual GDP growth of 4% or higher since 2000.  If we go into recession next year, this will certainly not be the "reason".

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Just now, gibby said:

Just to clarify, the US has not had annual GDP growth of 4% or higher since 2000.  If we go into recession next year, this will certainly not be the "reason".

I never said 4% annual growth. All I’m saying is that present growth, no one should be surprised by a slowdown. 

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3 hours ago, Dale said:

 

Or put another way: *Gratuitous conservative-bashing* ... engendering pushback ... engendering “WTF are you so hateful and angry ?!?!” and “Grr, take that garbage elsewhere!”

Hey, at least I’m not bashing Orlando every post. So, unless the Heckler’s Veto is invoked against me, I’m a net-win for the board!

I called it garbage because it's garbage. I don't care what your view is of Democrats. I don't care what anyone's is here. I don't care about anyone's view of Republicans here.

I'm comfortable enough to venture an estimation here that NONE of us come here for that. There are about five zillion other places where we can read that stuff. So how about we just not do that like none of us have been doing since I started coming here in 2011?

Edited by Xander
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4 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

So this is on the agenda of tomorrow's MPB at 830 AM.  Anyone able to go and represent our concerns?  For me, even ignoring the height aspect (although that does need mentioned), I'm vehemently opposed to the variance for the ground-floor amenities.  The corner of Orange and Robinson *needs* a signature draw.  There's already a "dead" block from an urbanism perspective between Jefferson and Robinson because of the Cathedral and First Green Bank.  The fabric can survive one dead block.  Asking for two (I love DoveCote, but BoA is a fortress), is probably going to be too much no matter how successful Zoi / X ever become.

Figures, the one day I have to be on Disney property at 7AM is the one day I want to complain to a public board.  I probably can't get there until 845 at the earliest.

Quoting myself to try to refocus because this is pretty important in my opinion.

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4 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

So this is on the agenda of tomorrow's MPB at 830 AM.  Anyone able to go and represent our concerns?  For me, even ignoring the height aspect (although that does need mentioned), I'm vehemently opposed to the variance for the ground-floor amenities.  The corner of Orange and Robinson *needs* a signature draw.  There's already a "dead" block from an urbanism perspective between Jefferson and Robinson because of the Cathedral and First Green Bank.  The fabric can survive one dead block.  Asking for two (I love DoveCote, but BoA is a fortress), is probably going to be too much no matter how successful Zoi / X ever become.

Figures, the one day I have to be on Disney property at 7AM is the one day I want to complain to a public board.  I probably can't get there until 845 at the earliest.

Send a proxy complainer. ;)

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Just now, JFW657 said:

Send a proxy complainer. ;)

Maybe that can be my new job after I retire!

5 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

So this is on the agenda of tomorrow's MPB at 830 AM.  Anyone able to go and represent our concerns?  For me, even ignoring the height aspect (although that does need mentioned), I'm vehemently opposed to the variance for the ground-floor amenities.  The corner of Orange and Robinson *needs* a signature draw.  There's already a "dead" block from an urbanism perspective between Jefferson and Robinson because of the Cathedral and First Green Bank.  The fabric can survive one dead block.  Asking for two (I love DoveCote, but BoA is a fortress), is probably going to be too much no matter how successful Zoi / X ever become.

Figures, the one day I have to be on Disney property at 7AM is the one day I want to complain to a public board.  I probably can't get there until 845 at the earliest.

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So I ended up rearranging things so that I could go this morning.

Short version, its a project by Post and they're massively risk averse.  The board seemed to largely agree with me, but appeared to feel hamstrung, and the interpretation of the code they have is that 50% of the frontage needs to be commercial, which they are accomplishing by having the 8 tiny storefronts.  The discussion went on for almost an hour of trying to get some sort of concession.  The final change was ultimately semantic, but I guess I'm calling it a win because better than nothing.  They said that the entire Orange ave needs to have "active" uses which they created a custom definition for specifically for this PD (as opposed to active commercial uses).  Apparently residents hanging out having coffee in a windowfront lounge counts as an active use, so I'm assuming we're gonna get something stupid like at Post Parkside where they have their fitness center there.

At one point the tide had turned and it looked like they were going to force the retail and amenity spots to be swapped, but no dice.  Very interesting dynamic between all of the board members.

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Very cool that you took the time to do this.  I'd normally completely agree with the objection you had but the commercial does cover 50% of the frontage and the amenities area is basically an active use.  I'm not sure which corner of the building would be better for the apartment entrance.  I think either one will work fine.  I'm more bummed about the garage on the back street.  They've made zero attempt to make that look nice.  Did they discuss that at all today?

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