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Jernigan

Orange & Robinson Apartments | 10-story residential [Proposed]

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ARB deferred approving the proposed design.   Growthspotter cites some of the reasons as being the bland garage and lack of groundfloor retail.  Article also quotes the developer as being ready to break ground as soon as they got approvals.

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10 hours ago, Jernigan said:

ARB deferred approving the proposed design. 

My favorite quote in the article..."What I’m asking for is that it doesn’t look like a hideous, bare-bones garage in the middle of our downtown,” he (Michael Mulhall) said.

My observation is this is a butt-ugly building that will neither enhance the area nor provide any benefit on the ground level.

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On 6/18/2019 at 4:50 PM, Jvest55 said:

Where's that from, if you don't mind?

2 bedroom west facing at 55 West

11 hours ago, Jernigan said:

ARB deferred approving the proposed design.   Growthspotter cites some of the reasons as being the bland garage and lack of groundfloor retail.  Article also quotes the developer as being ready to break ground as soon as they got approvals.

*makes note to go to next ARB meeting, though I'm not really sure how ARB has any control over existence of ground floor retail*

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14 hours ago, Jernigan said:

ARB deferred approving the proposed design.   Growthspotter cites some of the reasons as being the bland garage and lack of groundfloor retail.  Article also quotes the developer as being ready to break ground as soon as they got approvals.

wasn't there a requirement for all new projects to be mixed use?  

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3 hours ago, AmIReal said:

My favorite quote in the article..."What I’m asking for is that it doesn’t look like a hideous, bare-bones garage in the middle of our downtown,” he (Michael Mulhall) said.

My observation is this is a butt-ugly building that will neither enhance the area nor provide any benefit on the ground level.

Where was Michael Mulhall when Crescent Central Station was being built?? That building is a waste of space.

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1 hour ago, nite owℓ said:

Where was Michael Mulhall when Crescent Central Station was being built?? That building is a waste of space.

They should both fit in just fine with Golden Sparrow then.

Three ugly birds of an ugly feather.

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4 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

makes note to go to next ARB meeting, though I'm not really sure how ARB has any control over existence of ground floor retail

That is the defense the ARB uses. They say that is an issue for MPB who has already approved the plan.

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

wasn't there a requirement for all new projects to be mixed use?

I believe that is only if the development is requesting density variance.

1 hour ago, nite owℓ said:

That building is a waste of space.

I do like Greenbeat… and thank heaven it has a 7-11. But yes, it is also butt-ugly.

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10 hours ago, jrs2 said:

wasn't there a requirement for all new projects to be mixed use?  

I know lack of ground floor retail point was made to the renovation of the Bellsouth Building Renovation and Garage addition.  Particularly stating no other part of downtown has a garage fronting Orange at street level.  I did point out that the Courthouse across the street does as well.

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I went back and re-read the growthspotter article, here are a few clarifications and an additional rendering from the article for those without access:

  • Diocese sold the property to MAA with the stipulation that 200 parking spaces (first 3 levels) of the garage be for the reserved for the church’s exclusive use. On one hand I'm relieved the church no longer has any ownership in the development as their original intention was to restrict the apartment to low income housing for the elderly. I'm assuming the church's parking spaces will be deeded as an easement instead.
  • "ARB Director Doug Metzger explained that the developer of Modera Central used the colorful screening on the garage to fulfill the required public art component of the building because they were seeking a density bonus. MAA isn’t seeking a density bonus, so it’s not required to provide public art."
  • "The ARB also revisited one of the most controversial elements of the project - the lack of ground-floor retail uses on Orange Avenue. The project meets the legal requirement of the downtown design guidelines by dedicating half of the frontage on Orange Avenue for retail. The southern half of the block is reserved for the leasing office and fitness center, but it was designed in such as way that it could be converted for retail use in the future. The issue was hotly debated by the Municipal Planning Board in December but ultimately won approval. Smith made a convincing argument that the parking agreement with the church would make the additional retail unfeasible. Jason Burton, assistant division manager for planning, reiterated to the board that they can not regulate the site planning, which falls under the jurisdiction of the MPB. They can, however, ask that the developer tweak the design of its amenity spaces so it looks more like a retail site."
  • "The board agreed with the ARB staff in requesting that the design-build contractor, Finfrock, enhance the parapet on the roof to add more visual interest to the skyline. They also wanted changes to the landscaping plan and to the western elevation of the parking garage, which would be seen from Interstate 4."

View from the southwest corner of W Robinson St and State Ln [GMap]:

MAA.thumb.jpg.93f66e2c86f09c31ee0836ef68ecf71d.jpg

Edited by nite owℓ
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“...tweak the design of its amenity spaces so it looks more like a retail site.” Why do I imagine some staffer told the designers of the 7-Eleven monstrosity at Colonial and Magnolia or the CVS at Colonial and Mills something like that?

Trying to pretend you’re following a guideline when your goal is to do exactly the opposite rarely ends well.

Edited by spenser1058
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"...requesting that the design-build contractor, Finfrock, enhance the parapet on the roof to add more visual interest to the skyline."

Translation: they want another cheesy looking roof gimmick.

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17 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

"...requesting that the design-build contractor, Finfrock, enhance the parapet on the roof to add more visual interest to the skyline."

Translation: they want another cheesy looking roof gimmick.

The ARB has been infiltrated by Baker Barrios!

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9 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

May all the buildings have all the hats!

Steve Spurrier visors for everyone - Go Gators!?!

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2 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I went back and re-read the growthspotter article, here are a few clarifications and an additional rendering from the article for those without access:

  • Diocese sold the property to MAA with the stipulation that 200 parking spaces (first 3 levels) of the garage be for the reserved for the church’s exclusive use. On one hand I'm relieved the church no longer has any ownership in the development as their original intention was to restrict the apartment to low income housing for the elderly. I'm assuming the church's parking spaces will be deeded as an easement instead.
  • "ARB Director Doug Metzger explained that the developer of Modera Central used the colorful screening on the garage to fulfill the required public art component of the building because they were seeking a density bonus. MAA isn’t seeking a density bonus, so it’s not required to provide public art."
  • "The ARB also revisited one of the most controversial elements of the project - the lack of ground-floor retail uses on Orange Avenue. The project meets the legal requirement of the downtown design guidelines by dedicating half of the frontage on Orange Avenue for retail. The southern half of the block is reserved for the leasing office and fitness center, but it was designed in such as way that it could be converted for retail use in the future. The issue was hotly debated by the Municipal Planning Board in December but ultimately won approval. Smith made a convincing argument that the parking agreement with the church would make the additional retail unfeasible. Jason Burton, assistant division manager for planning, reiterated to the board that they can not regulate the site planning, which falls under the jurisdiction of the MPB. They can, however, ask that the developer tweak the design of its amenity spaces so it looks more like a retail site."
  • "The board agreed with the ARB staff in requesting that the design-build contractor, Finfrock, enhance the parapet on the roof to add more visual interest to the skyline. They also wanted changes to the landscaping plan and to the western elevation of the parking garage, which would be seen from Interstate 4."

View from the southwest corner of W Robinson St and State Ln [GMap]:

MAA.thumb.jpg.93f66e2c86f09c31ee0836ef68ecf71d.jpg

:tw_expressionless: 

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This rendering and the one from the front on OBJ show 11 floors.  I'm OK.  It fills the block.  More Ace Cafe walk-in customers.  If I'm walking down Orange it hurts my neck to look higher then 11 floors.  If I'm on I-4, I need to keep my eyes on the road.

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1 hour ago, cwetteland said:

This rendering and the one from the front on OBJ show 11 floors.  I'm OK.  It fills the block.  More Ace Cafe walk-in customers.  If I'm walking down Orange it hurts my neck to look higher then 11 floors.  If I'm on I-4, I need to keep my eyes on the road.

I just wish the design, the exterior materials and the colors weren't so God awfully bland.

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28 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I just wish the design, the exterior materials and the colors weren't so God awfully bland.

We want Hanky (to) Spice it up!

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13 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I went back and re-read the growthspotter article, here are a few clarifications and an additional rendering from the article for those without access:

  • Diocese sold the property to MAA with the stipulation that 200 parking spaces (first 3 levels) of the garage be for the reserved for the church’s exclusive use. On one hand I'm relieved the church no longer has any ownership in the development as their original intention was to restrict the apartment to low income housing for the elderly. I'm assuming the church's parking spaces will be deeded as an easement instead.
  • "ARB Director Doug Metzger explained that the developer of Modera Central used the colorful screening on the garage to fulfill the required public art component of the building because they were seeking a density bonus. MAA isn’t seeking a density bonus, so it’s not required to provide public art."
  • "The ARB also revisited one of the most controversial elements of the project - the lack of ground-floor retail uses on Orange Avenue. The project meets the legal requirement of the downtown design guidelines by dedicating half of the frontage on Orange Avenue for retail. The southern half of the block is reserved for the leasing office and fitness center, but it was designed in such as way that it could be converted for retail use in the future. The issue was hotly debated by the Municipal Planning Board in December but ultimately won approval. Smith made a convincing argument that the parking agreement with the church would make the additional retail unfeasible. Jason Burton, assistant division manager for planning, reiterated to the board that they can not regulate the site planning, which falls under the jurisdiction of the MPB. They can, however, ask that the developer tweak the design of its amenity spaces so it looks more like a retail site."
  • "The board agreed with the ARB staff in requesting that the design-build contractor, Finfrock, enhance the parapet on the roof to add more visual interest to the skyline. They also wanted changes to the landscaping plan and to the western elevation of the parking garage, which would be seen from Interstate 4."

View from the southwest corner of W Robinson St and State Ln [GMap]:

MAA.thumb.jpg.93f66e2c86f09c31ee0836ef68ecf71d.jpg

wait...we have a skyline???

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My argument is solely that corner needs an anchor tenant to draw people north out of the core because the previous block is a *DEAD* block with the Diocese on one side and Fairwinds having no street level presence on the other.  Putting a fitness center and a leasing office is inexcusable.

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1 minute ago, AndyPok1 said:

My argument is solely that corner needs an anchor tenant to draw people north out of the core because the previous block is a *DEAD* block with the Diocese on one side and Fairwinds having no street level presence on the other.  Putting a fitness center and a leasing office is inexcusable.

True, but just because those are the tenants occupying the space to begin with, doesn't mean they'll be there forever.

They might move out after a few years and be replaced by something more preferable.

Keep in mind also, that beggars can't usually be choosers. Maybe the fitness center was the only interested party that was willing to sign a lease.

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No no... it's the apartment leasing office and the apartment fitness center.  Although they proferred they would relocate the facilities if rental demand ever warranted... lets be honest.  Never gonna happen.

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10 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

No no... it's the apartment leasing office and the apartment fitness center.  Although they proferred they would relocate the facilities if rental demand ever warranted... lets be honest.  Never gonna happen.

I think it will.

If someone comes along and offers to pay the kind of rent the spot should someday command, they'll move that no income producing junk out of there so fast it'll make your eyeballs spin. 

I think that right now, nobody wants the space because let's face it, pretty much any corner of Orange Avenue in downtown Orlando is still a suck location for retail.

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They won't move it. They were talking about moving it from Post which has amazing frontage on Central in a fully leased area and they didn't do it there. MAA is not interested in retail.

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