Orange & Robinson Apartments | 11-story residential [Under Construction]

[elefants]

28 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

 

Northern cities like NYC and Chicago etc, were built up long before the automobile came along. Mass transit was there from very near their beginnings. By the time cars really came on the scene, these places had already grown up  in and were designed for life in a non-car-centric world.

Rather than having to redesign themselves to accomodate/encourage people not using cars, it was the other way around for them. They had to change to accomodate more automobile traffic. 

I doubt downtown Orlando will ever be the kind of city where large numbers of residents don't own cars because they don't need to.  If it ever does eventually become that kind of city, that day is a long, long way off. 

Look for parking garages to be a major part of downtown high-rise construction for decades to come.

Many car-centric cities are removing parking minimums.  I'd imagine if Dyer doesn't do it (it's trendy, after all), the next mayor will.  They won't be a major part of high-rise construction forever.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2015/11/18/a-map-of-cities-that-got-rid-of-parking-minimums

[nite owℓ]

Personally I don't walk very many places because it's too hot & humid outside. And if you're dressed nicely, forget it.

[spenser1058]

29 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Personally I don't walk very many places because it's too hot & humid outside. And if you're dressed nicely, forget it.

And that’s why we have Lymmo. Of course, that’s also a reason for siestas. As the saying goes, “only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun”. As WASPish traditions go, this WASP would rather ditch this one and keep Brooks Brothers.

Oh, and may I recommend more trees - lots more trees (no palms, please). Nothing is better at reducing ambient urban temperatures than lots of good shade trees.

In fact, with fewer cars you could replace unnecessary traffic lanes, expand sidewalks and have lots more room for extra trees.

Of course, there will be some, like those who predicted doom for College Park if they had the temerity to reduce the number of lanes on Edgewater Drive.

The result: CP’s business district is more successful than ever.
 

Something very similar happened when Plant St. in WG was narrowed in favor of the WOT. In fact, it turned a dying downtown into a Central Florida jewel.

Edited July 25, 2020 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

And that’s why we have Lymmo. Of course, that’s also a reason for siestas. As the saying goes, “only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun”. As WASPish traditions go, this WASP would rather ditch this one and keep Brooks Brothers.

Oh, and may I recommend more trees - lots more trees (no palms, please). Nothing is better at reducing ambient urban temperatures than lots of good shade trees.

In fact, with fewer cars you could replace unnecessary traffic lanes, expand sidewalks and have lots more room for extra trees.

Of course, there will be some, like those who predicted doom for College Park if they had the temerity to reduce the number of lanes on Edgewater Drive.

The result: CP’s business district is more successful than ever.
 

Something very similar happened when Plant St. in WG was narrowed in favor of the WOT. In fact, it turned a dying downtown into a Central Florida jewel.

Lymmo: I kinda forget it exists. Haven't ridden one in ages... they were always a little dingy despite the play on the name. I'll take one for a joy ride and see if anything's changed.

Siesta: Huh?

WASP: you're a WASP now??

Shade trees & expanded sidewalks: totally agree. And add continuous storefront awnings.

[spenser1058]

11 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Lymmo: I kinda forget it exists. Haven't ridden one in ages... they were always a little dingy despite the play on the name. I'll take one for a joy ride and see if anything's changed.

Siesta: Huh?

WASP: you're a WASP now??

Shade trees & expanded sidewalks: totally agree. And add continuous storefront awnings.

Technically, I always have been. English and Scottish on both sides of the family before everyone came  over in the late 1700’s. Pure Southerners since the 1780’s.

In tropical and sub-tropical climates, a siesta is where the culture (and businesses) shut down in the middle of the day to avoid the oppressive heat. They reopen in late afternoon into the evenings when it is cooler.

As the British built their empire, they ignored the custom, which was especially crazy before a/c.

Edited July 25, 2020 by spenser1058

[aent]

10 hours ago, elefants said:

Many car-centric cities are removing parking minimums.  I'd imagine if Dyer doesn't do it (it's trendy, after all), the next mayor will.  They won't be a major part of high-rise construction forever.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2015/11/18/a-map-of-cities-that-got-rid-of-parking-minimums

I clicked through lots of them and almost none of them actually got rid of parking requirements. Many listed as having it eliminated only eliminated it for certain uses, such as office, but kept it for residential.

 

These cities also really need to realize there is something between government mandated minimum parking, and government mandated maximum parking/no parking allowed. Like why not let the developers decide whether or not they want parking, and how much based on the actual use?

[orlandoguy]

Shade trees & expanded sidewalks: totally agree. And add continuous storefront awnings.

A million times yes on this point. For the life of me, I’ve never been able to understand why Florida cities don’t make continuous awnings in densely developed neighborhoods a requirement. (Granted, my opinions are shaped by self-serving reasons: working in the City National/BOA building your lunch choices are basically nothing during a deluge.) However, I think it’d help promote foot traffic to all the local businesses in these types of areas if patrons knew they could get from point A to point B to point C without getting totally soaked, either from rain or sweltering heat.

Northern cities have successfully done their version of this with the enclosed sky bridges to make access doable during the harsh winter months. Why can’t we? (He asks rhetorically.) [emoji58]

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orlandoguy said:

A million times yes on this point. For the life of me, I’ve never been able to understand why Florida cities don’t make continuous awnings in densely developed neighborhoods a requirement. (Granted, my opinions are shaped by self-serving reasons: working in the City National/BOA building your lunch choices are basically nothing during a deluge.) However, I think it’d help promote foot traffic to all the local businesses in these types of areas if patrons knew they could get from point A to point B to point C without getting totally soaked, either from rain or sweltering heat.

Northern cities have successfully done their version of this with the enclosed sky bridges to make access doable during the harsh winter months. Why can’t we? (He asks rhetorically.)

Not only continuous awnings on storefronts, but canopy covered crosswalks at all downtown intersections. 

That is something that could be done for relatively low cost and with minimal interruption of traffic flow or alteration of te existing infrastructure. 

[elefants]

3 hours ago, aent said:

I clicked through lots of them and almost none of them actually got rid of parking requirements. Many listed as having it eliminated only eliminated it for certain uses, such as office, but kept it for residential.

 

These cities also really need to realize there is something between government mandated minimum parking, and government mandated maximum parking/no parking allowed. Like why not let the developers decide whether or not they want parking, and how much based on the actual use?

I definitely oversimplified that and I apologize; less parking in denser areas still seems to be the trend.  I absolutely agree that developers should decide how much parking they need.  It would almost certainly cut down on the giant parking pedestals under towers.

Edited July 25, 2020 by elefants

[cwetteland]

Possible downside of this stems from the fact that parking cost money.  Left to their own, developers might opt out of providing parking all together, leaving the city to deal with all the street parking.  Just a thought.

[nite owℓ]

6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Technically, I always have been. English and Scottish on both sides of the family before everyone came  over in the late 1700’s. Pure Southerners since the 1780’s.

In tropical and sub-tropical climates, a siesta is where the culture (and businesses) shut down in the middle of the day to avoid the oppressive heat. They reopen in late afternoon into the evenings when it is cooler.

As the British built their empire, they ignored the custom, which was especially crazy before a/c.

Yeah but the key identifier of being a WASP is affluence (read: old money, generational wealth, etc.) - if it were only based on ethnicity and religion alone then almost every joe shmoe could self-identify as one. Imagine someone living in a trailer claiming to be a WASP -- does not compute. lol Just saying...

Never knew siestas were based on the weather. Just thought the midday break was just that - time for lunch and a nap lol.

[spenser1058]

41 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

Yeah but the key identifier of being a WASP is affluence (read: old money, generational wealth, etc.) - if it were only based on ethnicity and religion alone then almost every joe shmoe could self-identify as one. Imagine someone living in a trailer claiming to be a WASP -- does not compute. lol Just saying...

Never knew siestas were based on the weather. Just thought the midday break was just that - time for lunch and a nap lol.

Actually, look at what the acronym is: White, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant. Does that indicate wealth anywhere?

In any event, it’s also aspirational (or at least it was). For example, Jewish immigrant families like the Sulzbergers (NY Times) and Paleys (CBS) went to great lengths to fit in WASP culture (at least as interpreted in the US). 
 

First generation Eastern Europeans who founded the Hollywood studios made films based on WASP ideals (think about Leave It to Beaver as that migrated to TV).

The Kennedys were often called the “WASPiest Catholic family” in America.

Has there ever been anyone who took WASPiness to the extreme more than Ralph Lipschitz? You probably know him better as Ralph Lauren of Polo (a direct rip-off of Brooks Brothers, for whom he once worked). The thing is, Polo’s a nouveau riche brand. The old money folks I went to school with at Vandy wouldn’t have been caught dead in it.

In short, as Fitzgerald’s Great Gatsby taught, the WASP ethic in America was simply an aspirational ideal. Not unlike Alex P. Keaton in a later era, it was the culture smart, upwardly mobile folks wanted to be a part of.

And it wasn’t just for us white folks. If you’ve ever been to HBCUs like Morehouse College in Atlanta, the same ethos applied. The “Morehouse Man” there put the rest of us to shame when it came to “outprepping” each other.

Lisa Birnbach’s “Preppy Handbook” was the tongue-in- cheek manual for up and coming WASPs (Winter Park even made the cut).

While today it’s mostly a caricature and no longer acceptable as exclusionary of other cultures, it was the pond in which I swam as a tadpole.

Edited July 25, 2020 by spenser1058

[elefants]

41 minutes ago, cwetteland said:

Possible downside of this stems from the fact that parking cost money.  Left to their own, developers might opt out of providing parking all together, leaving the city to deal with all the street parking.  Just a thought.

I'd love to see a developer not provide parking in a mid rise. I imagine people living in a building without a parking garage would be more receptive to the ideas of using public transportation and walking.  Instead of the city focusing on the street parking, they could concentrate their efforts on better bus service and sidewalks.

[nite owℓ]

1 hour ago, elefants said:

I'd love to see a developer not provide parking in a mid rise. I imagine people living in a building without a parking garage would be more receptive to the ideas of using public transportation and walking.  Instead of the city focusing on the street parking, they could concentrate their efforts on better bus service and sidewalks.

Who knows, hopefully the success of microapartment developments will encourage traditional developers to think outside of the box. The target demographic for a garageless apartment would probably be someone who works in close proximity to home (or work from home), but I'd imagine it would be a deal-breaker for people who work in Lake Mary, Lake Nona, Metrowest, etc. I think a good "social experiment" property would be the Angebilt hotel (as others have also suggested) - reconfigure the office towers back into living space and make sure a zipcar hub is available within the vicinity. I'd also like to see the upper levels of low-rise historic buildings along Orange Ave converted into apartment lofts. Those are quick ways to infuse more residential space into the CBD without tearing anything down.

Lynx requires a monumental overhaul, but I can't imagine the kind of budget needed to turn it into a full time bus service. I'm open to the potential here in Orlando - I'm always envious of the lifestyle when I visit family in a big city. Sunrail is preferable, but its limited hours do not align with my work schedule (I could work downtown if I wanted to, but I choose to drive 30 mins away in favor of a work environment that better suits my needs).

[spenser1058]

Lynx needs a dedicated revenue source. The vote for an additional sales tax to provide that was supposed to be on the ballot in November but has been shelved due to COVID.

Hopefully we’ll try again in the fall of ‘22.

[bqknight]

[orange87]

Is this visible from views across Lake Eola?

[spenser1058]

Walking to Publix today along the south shore of the lake, I could just see the top peeking over.

[orange87]

How many feet tall is this building? I wanted to compare it to the Fairwinds Credit Union Tower which is 12-stories and 153 feet.

[smonteserin]

This building makes a definite impact as infill driving West on I-4. I drove through downtown to see the way the new layout and scale of I-4 changes the views and feel, and this on in particular surprised me, along with the Lakehouse and  the Yard projects, as well as the under construction apartments in Advent Health Village.  I think the height of the new Ultimate I-4 lanes give a novel view.  

[Flotex]

And the pictures? [emoji16]

 

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[smonteserin]

19 minutes ago, Flotex said:

And the pictures?

 

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

I'll have to drive down again with a socially distanced cameraman, eventually. I-4 was a bit harrowing at that hour. 

Edited July 26, 2020 by smonteserin

[spenser1058]

On 7/24/2020 at 8:09 PM, orange87 said:

What transit options are you suggesting? We have a commuter rail, even though the schedule is inadequate. We have buses, uber, taxis and an improving bicycle infrastructure. The only other thing I can think of that we don't have is a subway and I don't think Florida can have those. What else is there? I'm not trying to be a wise-guy, I'm genuinely curious because I can't think of anything else.

The last time anyone looked into it, Lynx had about the some number of buses as some mid-size city in Indiana (I can’t remember exactly which one).

Given we have one of the largest low-income service economies in the country, and one whose largest employer was placed in BFE (although for entirely different reasons), the starting point is a significant expansion of the bus fleet.

It should not take 2-3 hours in many cases to get to work on Lynx.

The problem with SunRail is that it doesn’t link to our largest employment centers. The light rail project we abandoned during the Clinton administration (thanks, Clarence Hoenstine!) addressed this by leaving the existing railbed south of downtown and heading for the tourist district and Lockheed Martin’s Sand Lake campus. 
 

One thing SunRail CAN do is increase service on weekends and holidays to service festivals, entertainment activities and in recognition of the fact that our largest employers operate every day of the year. Local leaders will have to figure that out - the state’s only interest in the system was to facilitate Jeb!’s sweetheart deal with CSX.

[Jernigan]

I can look out my window at I4 during rush hour and see the train speed by every 30 minutes during that time of peak traffic and it just makes sense to me.

Running SunRail on nights and weekends when I4 is relative bliss just so people could theoretically have an alternative option on paper, on the other hand, is the kind of boondoggle that rail pessimists relish in.   Let’s not feed that flame.  
 

We do have several hospitals on the line - which would provide some ridership.  But I’d place major corporate sponsorship as a precursor to running the service so that the other trips are just fare box gravy.

[Jerry95]

8 hours ago, Jernigan said:

I can look out my window at I4 during rush hour and see the train speed by every 30 minutes during that time of peak traffic and it just makes sense to me.

Running SunRail on nights and weekends when I4 is relative bliss just so people could theoretically have an alternative option on paper, on the other hand, is the kind of boondoggle that rail pessimists relish in.   Let’s not feed that flame.  
 

We do have several hospitals on the line - which would provide some ridership.  But I’d place major corporate sponsorship as a precursor to running the service so that the other trips are just fare box gravy.

You’re making an assumption that everyone owns a car and just chooses not to drive in favor of the train. It’s a very common viewpoint that we need to shift away from. Car ownership is expensive, and many of our low-wage service workers have to make the decision to go without. Commuter rail and local busses shouldn’t be expected to be profitable when the roadways that get us to work (sans toll roads) are funded and maintained at the city/state’s expense.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Jerry95