Orange & Robinson Apartments | 11-story residential [Under Construction]

[AndyPok1]

Oh I agree, but I don't know what reducing podium garages does in this instance.  If you don't need a car, then you won't have one just for the sake of it because you have a spare parking space.  Plus, then you'd have a VISITOR parking space which is worth its weight in gold.  I might still be in a relationship if I had one of those

[uncreativeusername]

22 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Oh I agree, but I don't know what reducing podium garages does in this instance.  If you don't need a car, then you won't have one just for the sake of it because you have a spare parking space.  Plus, then you'd have a VISITOR parking space which is worth its weight in gold.  I might still be in a relationship if I had one of those

This really has to do with building in the cost of parking in a way that makes it structurally difficult/impossible to reward those who chose not to use a car, right?

When the psychology is every unit automatically comes with a parking space as opposed to parking is an optional add-on, nobody realizes they are paying for parking; the actual cost is hidden.  Everybody wants free parking, but free parking isn't actually free, so the best option for developers is to build in the cost and pretend it is free.  This is very problematic for those who don't need a car, or are on the fence as to their need.  If people knew their parking space cost $100/mo (made-up number, but as a hypothetical), wouldn't their cost-benefit analysis of whether or not they need a car shift significantly?

I'm not going to say we can blow up all the parking garages downtown to immediately create a pedestrian paradise, but people who don't use cars should definitely be rewarded.  

Edited July 31, 2020 by uncreativeusername

[spenser1058]

Another interesting thing I’ve noticed is the number of comments that this is only a big city issue. It isn’t 

Smaller places also address it. For example, college towns. In Bloomington, IN, for example, they’ve opted not to pave over everything for enough parking  for a large state university population.

How? It is widely regarded as one of the most beautiful college campuses in the US and beyond. In fact, to cut down a tree there requires all sorts of red tape. So yes, there’s LOTS of trees.

Anyway, freshmen (freshpeople? sounds kinky...) who have a car and live in the dorms (there are lots of highrise dorms) have to park them on the edge of campus in the football stadium’s lot.

As a general rule, it’s not worth it. As a result, bicycles are everywhere and there is both a city bus system and a university shuttle. For poor college students who can’t really afford a car anyway, it’s a godsend.

Problem solved (Bloomington, btw, is like Indiana’s 7th largest city so we’re not talking big city issues here - instead, it’s all about addressing priorities.

More than anything else, it requires thinking outside the 1950’s box most of us grew up with.

Don’t get me wrong - some folks are blissfully content in the suburbs where driving everywhere is what you do. As GM worked so hard to convince Americans, “it’s not just your car, it’s your freedom”. It’s a false freedom with not only hidden monetary costs but also things like health costs when there’s nowhere to walk or exercise (being raised in the west Orlando ‘burbs, I know all about that - NOTHING was close). But no one is trying to take it away.

What we’re proposing is an affordable alternative for those who want something different.

Edited July 30, 2020 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

I'm trying to figure out how dealing with parking in the central business district of a major city where adults across a wide spectrum of age groups, have jobs to go to and family business/shopping/responsibilities to tend to... and dealing with parking on a college campus where 18 - 24 year old kids, most of whom don't work but just go to class, eat in the campus cafeteria(s) and really don't have much in the way of errands or family responsibilities to tend to, are at all similar or should be dealt with in a similar fashion. 

I just don't see a legitimate comparison.

[Jerry95]

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I'm trying to figure out how dealing with parking in the central business district of a major city where adults across a wide spectrum of age groups, have jobs to go to and family business/shopping/responsibilities to tend to... and dealing with parking on a college campus where 18 - 24 year old kids, most of whom don't work but just go to class, eat in the campus cafeteria(s) and really don't have much in the way of errands or family responsibilities to tend to, are at all similar or should be dealt with in a similar fashion. 

I just don't see a legitimate comparison.

I grew up in a major European city for the first 10 years of my life. We had a public transportation system that made car ownership very optional. That said we did end up having two family cars and were in a unique position to be able to park both of those on the street. 

I think downtowns/urban cores need to have walkable areas supplemented with transit connections to commuter parking located on the perimeter. Residential parking can be available, but give residents the option of spending more to have their car parked close to their residence or spending less to park in a less walkable, but well connected, garage.

As an aside, UF had (has?) a policy where they only provide parking for 20% of those who live/work/study on campus. The rest is supplemented by bus ridership, moped use, walking and cycling. I'm glad that I had the option to use the bus as a student and had the choice to decide when and how I got to campus. I hear horror stories from FSU and UCF where driving to campus was an ordeal. 

[AndyPok1]

22 hours ago, JFW657 said:

I'm trying to figure out how dealing with parking in the central business district of a major city where adults across a wide spectrum of age groups, have jobs to go to and family business/shopping/responsibilities to tend to... and dealing with parking on a college campus where 18 - 24 year old kids, most of whom don't work but just go to class, eat in the campus cafeteria(s) and really don't have much in the way of errands or family responsibilities to tend to, are at all similar or should be dealt with in a similar fashion. 

I just don't see a legitimate comparison.

I considered putting my experiences in Columbus to discuss parking, but this point hits in on the head.  The comparison just isn't the same.

Yes, as a freshman I parked about 3 miles away and had to take a bus to get my car on the occasions I wanted it.  Yes, as a sophomore we had neighborhood permit parking where you could only park on the street if you paid the nominal ($25/yr) fee  (Which I have asked the city to look into in places around Wadeview where instead they went the route of simply no parking 8-2p to discourage Boone students from parking in the neighborhood).  And my junior and senior years I lived on one of the areas that both had no driveway and no permit.  When I worked at the mall across town and came home, I often would have to park up to two blocks away.

I think all of these are valid issues for Eola/Thornton/etc.  I used to get in a fight with my ex that lived in Eola because she would complain when someone would be parked in front of her house and she had to park a whole house farther down the street.

However, they are not remotely valid for a CBD.  Where is the closest non-metered parking to the CBD?  Eola Drive?  And even then its only until 2am, right?  2-3 blocks, I have no sympathy.  Almost a 20 minute walk?  That's unfeasible.

[spenser1058]

27 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

I considered putting my experiences in Columbus to discuss parking, but this point hits in on the head.  The comparison just isn't the same.

Yes, as a freshman I parked about 3 miles away and had to take a bus to get my car on the occasions I wanted it.  Yes, as a sophomore we had neighborhood permit parking where you could only park on the street if you paid the nominal ($25/yr) fee  (Which I have asked the city to look into in places around Wadeview where instead they went the route of simply no parking 8-2p to discourage Boone students from parking in the neighborhood).  And my junior and senior years I lived on one of the areas that both had no driveway and no permit.  When I worked at the mall across town and came home, I often would have to park up to two blocks away.

I think all of these are valid issues for Eola/Thornton/etc.  I used to get in a fight with my ex that lived in Eola because she would complain when someone would be parked in front of her house and she had to park a whole house farther down the street.

However, they are not remotely valid for a CBD.  Where is the closest non-metered parking to the CBD?  Eola Drive?  And even then its only until 2am, right?  2-3 blocks, I have no sympathy.  Almost a 20 minute walk?  That's unfeasible.

The point is to get beyond the automobile. As Henry Ford once observed when asked if he had given people what they were asking for, he replied that would have just been a better horse instead of a Model T. It seems little has changed.

Instead of choosing an autocentric neighborhood (and buying it instead of renting), I chose a very different lifestyle close to downtown.In fact, I originally sought to do this when light rail was going near my office. We know how that went. I tried using Lynx #8 but it often was so crowded the bus passed me by and the #38 Express unfortunately goes all the way to Sea World before heading back north (it also has limited hours).

Essentially, the only time I used my car was  commuting. Now, with work at home, I don’t even do that. Since the whole idea the DDB advertises with downtown is to “live, work and play” here, why should an auto be necessary? If they fail to meet the basis of their tag line, why are they advertising it?

I also am interested in the idea that regularly attending classes to obtain a degree is any less important than holding a job, it reminds me that in many cultures being a student IS considered a job. I have never accepted the peculiarly American idea that going to college is nothing more than an elevated hobby (I’ll also add that passing calculus was worse than any task at any job I’ve ever had).

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

I think we're arguing the same point just differently.  Yes, I would love to not have a car.  However, I don't necessarily find it feasible unless you hit an EXTREMELY narrow set of guidelines (which you apparently do).  I'm like 85% of the way there.  But this is a community of people that are on an urbanism message board.  Even my friends that largely want to live downtown/thornton/ivanhoe/etc to live close to bars and restaurants.... they would never dream of getting rid of or even downsizing to 1 car.  And as long as that is true, if we want downtown to succeed, we have to accommodate them in various ways.

(The student thing is interesting but probably better for the coffee house if we're going to go into a treatise about that)

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

(The student thing is interesting but probably better for the coffee house if we're going to go into a treatise about that)

The thing is, nobody ever said (or more precisely I never said, as it was my comment that was being referring to) that going to college was "...any less important than holding a job...", although that argument could easily be made.  

What I (obviously) meant, was that young college students who live on a college campus spend their entire days there. They have pretty much everything they need available on campus and as such, have much less if any need for a car.  

Working adults who have households to run, bills to pay, mouths to feed and business to take care of, regularly find themselves needing to travel to distant areas in, around and outside of town which of course, in a city with no real mass transit, necessitates ownership of a car.

More importantly, it in no way makes one a bad person, or narrow-minded, or less sophisticated, or less urban or stuck in a 1960's mentality or any other similar insinuations.

They are simply people who need their cars and as such, a place to park them.

Besides, this whole "city with no cars" folderol is just a fanciful pipe dream.

It's never going to happen until a replacement for cars is invented.

Maybe personal flying pods that fold up into a brief case.

[TRENCH]

On 7/30/2020 at 4:00 PM, spenser1058 said:

rule, it’s not worth it. As a result, bicycles are everywhere and there is both a city bus system and a university shuttle. For poor college students who can’t really afford a car anyway, it’s a godsend.

let me tag @cityoforlando and @UCF so they can read this over and over and implement it by the year 2087 

[JFW657]

Haven't had a visual update on the progress of this project in some time.

Anyone got a recent (as in last couple of days) pic? 

[Jernigan]

It’s fat and gray

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, Jernigan said:

It’s fat and gray

Sounds like me....   

[Jerry95]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:16 PM, JFW657 said:

Haven't had a visual update on the progress of this project in some time.

Anyone got a recent (as in last couple of days) pic? 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Jerry95

[elefants]

I'm probably in the minority but I'd like it if they left the concrete mostly exposed with maybe a little colorful paint here and there.

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, elefants said:

I'm probably in the minority but I'd like it if they left the concrete mostly exposed with maybe a little colorful paint here and there.

@prahabohemewill like that. As a brutalism purist, he was not happy with me when I suggested OPL needed some paint <g>.

[prahaboheme]

3 minutes ago, elefants said:

I'm probably in the minority but I'd like it if they left the concrete mostly exposed with maybe a little colorful paint here and there.

A polished concrete, like, the new St Pete Pier?

[elefants]

Just now, spenser1058 said:

@prahabohemewill like that. As a brutalism purist, he was not happy with me when I suggested OPL needed some paint <g>.

I agree OPL shouldn't be painted.  I think it looks nice the way it is.  I have seen some beautiful non-traditional brutalism trimmed with paint or stained wood that looks outstanding.

1 minute ago, prahaboheme said:

A polished concrete, like, the new St Pete Pier?

I wouldn't be opposed to that.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

From Friday

[spenser1058]

It may not be all that tall, but it’s definitely got some bulk to it.

[orange87]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It may not be all that tall, but it’s definitely got some bulk to it.

In my opinion, it makes a pretty big impact from I-4.

[TRENCH]

From the UCF parking garage 

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, W7edwin said:

From the UCF parking garage 

I really like the top one - it makes us look so dense! (hmmmm)

[TRENCH]

Update form Tuesday 

[ChiDev]

Really cool build system to design a very dark courtyard.   Assuming the vibrational noise from the prefab stays low, this system should be used more widely.