Orange & Robinson Apartments | 11-story residential [Under Construction]

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, popsiclebrandon said:

They won't move it. They were talking about moving it from Post which has amazing frontage on Central in a fully leased area and they didn't do it there. MAA is not interested in retail.

Mmmmm, well.... I never say never.

Things change.

[jliv]

FYI,  if y'all didn't know, MAA IS Post (MAA bought Post Properties in 2016)...

[nite owℓ]

On 7/9/2019 at 9:27 AM, spenser1058 said:

“...tweak the design of its amenity spaces so it looks more like a retail site.” Why do I imagine some staffer told the designers of the 7-Eleven monstrosity at Colonial and Magnolia or the CVS at Colonial and Mills something like that?

Trying to pretend you’re following a guideline when your goal is to do exactly the opposite rarely ends well.

I actually love the 7-Eleven at Colonial & Mag... it's such a large site that there is really no way to build a Fern Creek-style building on that corner and have it fill out the lot appropriately. The large street wall facade was created to stay in line with traditional city zoning. The stalls are spacious and I feel less stressed while pumping gas there: the interior courtyard, picture windows and filtered light are quite calming... almost zen-like for a gas station lol. It just needs a fresh coat of paint.

How come no one ever hates on the Orange & Princeton location? That  location is a failure... just bad Chi or something, it makes my skin crawl.

[AndyPok1]

20 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

They won't move it. They were talking about moving it from Post which has amazing frontage on Central in a fully leased area and they didn't do it there. MAA is not interested in retail.

This.  They even bragged about their success at Post Parkside.  It's super disheartening.

[RedStar25]

On 7/12/2019 at 10:40 AM, nite owℓ said:

How come no one ever hates on the Orange & Princeton location? That  location is a failure... just bad Chi or something, it makes my skin crawl.

That one always feels funky to me. I'll skip it and drive to College Park Publix or the one on Virginia/Mills when I drive to my Sisters house. 

[dcluley98]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:51 PM, AndyPok1 said:

So I ended up rearranging things so that I could go this morning.

Short version, its a project by Post and they're massively risk averse.  The board seemed to largely agree with me, but appeared to feel hamstrung, and the interpretation of the code they have is that 50% of the frontage needs to be commercial, which they are accomplishing by having the 8 tiny storefronts.  The discussion went on for almost an hour of trying to get some sort of concession.  The final change was ultimately semantic, but I guess I'm calling it a win because better than nothing.  They said that the entire Orange ave needs to have "active" uses which they created a custom definition for specifically for this PD (as opposed to active commercial uses).  Apparently residents hanging out having coffee in a windowfront lounge counts as an active use, so I'm assuming we're gonna get something stupid like at Post Parkside where they have their fitness center there.

At one point the tide had turned and it looked like they were going to force the retail and amenity spots to be swapped, but no dice.  Very interesting dynamic between all of the board members.

Andy was exactly right and this is what happened at latest ARB. They approved it with the Fitness Center being the "active use space" on the SE corner and only one small retail space, in this rendering a Starbucks, on the NE corner. The back/garage is still not fully screened or muralized. Not sure how they got away with that one. 

Updated renderings: 
East Elevation fronting Orange:

Northeast perspective:

 

Southeast perspective:

Southwest perspective and backside/garage fronting State Ln:

 

[nite owℓ]

53 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

The back/garage is still not fully screened or muralized. Not sure how they got away with that one.

According to the previous ARB agenda, "ARB Director Doug Metzger explained that the developer of Modera Central used the colorful screening on the garage to fulfill the required public art component of the building because they were seeking a density bonus. MAA isn’t seeking a density bonus, so it’s not required to provide public art."

[popsiclebrandon]

Its good to be the largest multifamily company in the US.  This is such a bad project.

[codypet]

14 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

According to the previous ARB agenda, "ARB Director Doug Metzger explained that the developer of Modera Central used the colorful screening on the garage to fulfill the required public art component of the building because they were seeking a density bonus. MAA isn’t seeking a density bonus, so it’s not required to provide public art."

Side note did anyone notice the post cards that screen Camden Orange Court's garage from I-4 have been gone for some time now?   

[spenser1058]

People tend to walk where they feel like they belong. Compare the number of folks walking along the street sidewalks on Central vs. the number of folks walking on the street sidewalks on Robinson along the Eola Park stretch.

Or, compare the number of folks walking along Summerlin in TP vs. the folks walking along Rosalind by Eola Park (note the two-lane roads win every time- the perception is two-lane city streets fit with pedestrians, four-lane roads are mostly for cars).

Accordingly, just like the retail at The Vue was a failure because there is no pedestrian traffic along that stretch of Rosalind, I suspect whatever ground-floor retail is at Orange and Robinson would meet a similar fate until something is done with the roads at that intersection to make it much more pedestrian-friendly.

More’s the pity because there are a lot of folks walking between what is now a parking lot and St. James’ for masses and weddings and such, but if you watch, just like the crowds at Bob Carr and the old O-Rena, they don’t linger. Afterward, they hop back in their cars and get out of Dodge.

Edited August 21, 2019 by spenser1058

[codypet]

That's a good point and probably part of the reason Camden Orange Court and Later Camden North Quarter can't fill their retail prompting the two-way study of Orange and Magnolia.

Edited August 21, 2019 by codypet

[popsiclebrandon]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

That's a good point and probably part of the reason Camden Orange Court and Later Camden North Quarter can't fill their retail prompting the two-way study of Orange and Magnolia.

Camden NQ isn't filling because they still think they can get full market rent for it and its a laughable thought to everyone. They are asking more for that than many other buildings downtown and refuse to budge.  Meanwhile NORA did a % of sales deal to fill theirs up and it worked great.

[spenser1058]

18 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Camden NQ isn't filling because they still think they can get full market rent for it and its a laughable thought to everyone. They are asking more for that than many other buildings downtown and refuse to budge.  Meanwhile NORA did a % of sales deal to fill theirs up and it worked great.

Does Camden OC handle theirs the same way? Do I remember correctly they dialed back their retail due to problems filling it? That’s also a no-go zone for peds so that would make sense.

Meanwhile, Camden “Thornton Park” is nearly full, which seems right because peds are all over the place these days over there. Of course, it hasn’t been Camden long so maybe they handled it differently before.

[codypet]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Does Camden OC handle theirs the same way? Do I remember correctly they dialed back their retail due to problems filling it? That’s also a no-go zone for peds so that would make sense.

Meanwhile, Camden “Thornton Park” is nearly full, which seems right because peds are all over the place these days over there. Of course, it hasn’t been Camden long so maybe they handled it differently before.

I believe Camden OC has converted all their retail into apartments now.

[spenser1058]

When I exit I4 westbound, I usually do so and head down Orange before turning on Marks over to Summerlin. As a result, I go through there usually a few times/week but almost always in the daytime.

It’s almost always ped-free on those trips. Maybe dcluley and his neighbors are all wandering around there at night and I just don’t know it but my experience is that the “too many lanes” rule is applicable there in regard to walkers.

I’m an odd person who walks a lot, even as far as College Park on occasion (usually when getting my bike serviced at Orange Cycle since we have no bike shop downtown). Walking through Eola Heights and even past LHPS is pleasant but I don’t really enjoy walking through NORA all that much.

That’s just me, however.

Edited August 21, 2019 by spenser1058

[jgardnerucf]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

usually when getting my bike serviced at Orange Cycle since we have no bike shop downtown)

Kyle's.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Kyle's.

Thanks - he’s on Primrose so not a whole lot closer. Although, since the Maguire Target is stocking more groceries these days, maybe I should consider switching.

I really do like that Target better than SoDo.

[dcluley98]

Usually North Quarter is dead as a doornail during the day. After work/at dinner there is quite a bit of foot traffic. There are several very good restaurants on the east side of the street, but very little on the west side, which is mostly cheap market rate apartments for lower middle class working people, which likely explains the quiet daytime condition.  There is a lot more activity at night for people going to the restaurants. It isn't much of a working/walking neighborhood, really, more of a neighborhood for working people who couldn't afford to live someplace better, LOL. There are not a lot of businesses that would actually draw foot traffic.  

The street itself isn't the problem, IMO although it sucks to cross because there are no real crosswalks and basically it's a game of frogger at night for the folks trying to get to the few good restaurants we go to.  It is more the nature of the market and people who live here, IMO. I do think that the planned separated bike lane and crossings for the OUT would do a lot to make people actually stop by though instead of just driving through. 

 

[jrs2]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:47 PM, spenser1058 said:

Thanks - he’s on Primrose so not a whole lot closer. Although, since the Maguire Target is stocking more groceries these days, maybe I should consider switching.

I really do like that Target better than SoDo.

...not last night during the storm.  SoDo Target was my go to to stay dry.

On 8/21/2019 at 7:12 PM, dcluley98 said:

Usually North Quarter is dead as a doornail during the day. After work/at dinner there is quite a bit of foot traffic. There are several very good restaurants on the east side of the street, but very little on the west side, which is mostly cheap market rate apartments for lower middle class working people, which likely explains the quiet daytime condition.  There is a lot more activity at night for people going to the restaurants. It isn't much of a working/walking neighborhood, really, more of a neighborhood for working people who couldn't afford to live someplace better, LOL. There are not a lot of businesses that would actually draw foot traffic.  

The street itself isn't the problem, IMO although it sucks to cross because there are no real crosswalks and basically it's a game of frogger at night for the folks trying to get to the few good restaurants we go to.  It is more the nature of the market and people who live here, IMO. I do think that the planned separated bike lane and crossings for the OUT would do a lot to make people actually stop by though instead of just driving through. 

 

they need one of those blinking caution light cross walks...probably at Marks and maybe a second one at Park Lake.

[dcluley98]

Indeed. That is in the plan for the OUT connection. 

[codypet]

14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

...not last night during the storm.  SoDo Target was my go to to stay dry.

they need one of those blinking caution light cross walks...probably at Marks and maybe a second one at Park Lake.

They need to do something about people coming out of those apartments and driving the wrong way trying to go down Park Lake and the driveway for the Wells Fargo Tower.  I was coming out of the WF driveway looking north and started to turn only to find a car driving at me the wrong way up Orange.

[ucfpatriot18]

Construction fence being installed today

[AmIReal]

5 minutes ago, ucfpatriot18 said:

Construction fence being installed today

Yeah, according to OBJ the permit was processed- not issued- and they expect to start in December. The article also mentions X Orlando at 434 Orange.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/11/04/heres-the-latest-on-these-2-proposed-downtown.html?iana=hpmvp_orl_news_headline

 

 

[codypet]

I noticed they had taped off the lot last week.  I was wondering if they were going to get started.  It really is going to make the Dupont lot feel like a back alley.

[gibby]

Another parking lot replacer, and this one on Orange Avenue.  Excellent!