Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[BFG]

I rarely (read: never) read the comments, but I had to see what people were saying on this one.  For the first time in my life, I was actually pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed reading the comments, and that 99% of the people say this petition sucks. I'd love to see a pro-casino in Norfolk Facebook group pop up to prove just how many people support it...

City council has been discussing the casino for a year and a half.

Councilwoman McClellan has been on council since 2016. If council's been discussing this for that long, I would think she would've been aware. Honestly, this group is losing credibility more and more each day, and I think they're using the same tactics VB used to fight light rail.

[vdogg]

Well, in the case of VB, those tactics were quite successful. We shouldn’t discount them, their efforts are very dangerous to this project.

[Cjnfkvb]

Definitely a threat. 4,000 signitures is a drop in the bucket regarding the  areas population.  And the nimbys here seem pretty desperate at keeping any growth, and sucess out of our aria.

[HRVA]

It’s absolutely a threat but I find it encouraging that they’re only halfway there while down to two weeks to get the rest. Each signature has to be verified against the list of registered voters so a lot of signatures are likely to get tossed. Unregistered, duplicate, & illegible signatures will be disqualified and if the person who collected the signatures on a particular sheet isn’t registered or if it doesn’t get notarized then the whole sheet gets tossed.   

Edited October 9, 2019 by 23320

[Up2313]

So what is the timeline here? When do they have to get the signatures by?

[BFG]

End of the month, give or take. I don’t remember the exact date but they had 30 days. 

[BeagleAccountant]

Where were these folks when the gaming machines got approved statewide? It's pretty depressing to see the folks who are spending dollar after dollar gambling in a 7/11. At least you expect to see that in a casino.

[BFG]

I think I'm starting to understand these people's biggest gripe with the casino. Some of it is (in their eyes) the crime, but IMO, a lot of it is the fact that they feel threatened by the idea of Norfolk becoming more of a city, which makes them no different than VB. They like being a small, sleepy town of 250K, with its little quirks and moderate crime rate, when in reality, Norfolk isn't that much smaller than Orlando or Pittsburgh (city proper, not metro). It's weird, because they want the city to be more progressive, but when they start making decisions, they suddenly get cold feet. 

[vdogg]

45 minutes ago, BFG said:

I think I'm starting to understand these people's biggest gripe with the casino. Some of it is (in their eyes) the crime, but IMO, a lot of it is the fact that they feel threatened by the idea of Norfolk becoming more of a city, which makes them no different than VB. They like being a small, sleepy town of 250K, with its little quirks and moderate crime rate, when in reality, Norfolk isn't that much smaller than Orlando or Pittsburgh (city proper, not metro). It's weird, because they want the city to be more progressive, but when they start making decisions, they suddenly get cold feet. 

I don’t think that theory stands up though because for the vast majority of our history Norfolk has been THE city. Va. Beach is the suburb. Norfolk has never been the sleepy little town that perhaps they think it is (just look at pictures of Norfolk from the 30s). It just doesn’t make sense.

[Willy18]

I'm curious what their spiel is when they approach citizens to try and get these "signatures"? Let's be honest, a vast majority of people are pretty ignorant on many issues. They can be influenced very easily with just a quick "shock value" type sentence or statement. You can easily paint the casino and the gambling industry into a nuclear bomb making factory next to a ball field.  

[baobabs727]

It needs to be changed to 8k signatures.  This would stop these types of nuisance campaigns.   4k is a very low threshold in a pop of 250k.

Theirs is a campaign of lies and deceit. They are against the casino. They tell the ignorant, the undecided and the go-along/bandwagon crowd that they merely wanna slow things down. Cuz who could be against that, right? 

[BFG]

If I read correctly, the 4K is based on a percentage of turnout from a prior election. I do agree the number should be higher, say 10K-25K.

[BFG]

8 hours ago, vdogg said:

I don’t think that theory stands up though because for the vast majority of our history Norfolk has been THE city. Va. Beach is the suburb. Norfolk has never been the sleepy little town that perhaps they think it is (just look at pictures of Norfolk from the 30s). It just doesn’t make sense.

It doesn’t, but in the last 40 or 50 years, it feels like Norfolk lost that bustling city status from the 1940s-50s. To me, it feels like the city got complacent, and added little things here and there (Waterside, MacArthur, The Main) to try to reclaim the nightlife. I’ll admit I’m comparing Norfolk 2019 to that 1937 picture I posted, but something’s missing, and I don’t want the NIMBYs ruining any potential progress.

That said, people cried over light rail and The Main too, so we shall see. 

[BFG]

This story gets more and more bizarre. Apparently, a few people wanted their names taken off the petition; the city provided a way to do so, but the Mayor told them to take that down as to be fair to petitioners. 

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-casino-petition-name-remove-20191015-bqqmmrwaefehneemevbjuhvzay-story.html

Anyway, the grassroots No Casino NIMBY "Let's Wait and See" group is roughly halfway to their goal with a week and a half to go. I don't think this is getting the momentum they want. I talked to my mom this morning, who more or less oversees the local bingo halls. She and I both agreed that you can find people in 7-11 buying stacks of lottery tickets or playing the machines there. Never mind the people in bingo halls spending their rent or social security money hoping to win a little more. Gambling addiction is real, but to use it here is a weak argument, IMO, given what we already have in the state.

[vdogg]

I don’t understand any of this. If they are collecting signatures in an appropriate fashion, then it shouldn’t matter whether there is a form on the city website or not. 

[Willy18]

I'm sure the way they're getting the signatures is 100% appropriate   

The few that changed their mind just had a change of heart...sure.

[BFG]

Unless I misread the article, I believe they have until the 25th. 

[vdogg]

Several days worth of rain coming up in that time period. They're gonna have a tough time at this pace.

[baobabs727]

But remember "neutral Andria" is inviting people to sign a petition at her speaking engagements. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

They’re saying they only need 500 more and are hoping to get an additional 1,000 over the requirement. They plan to collect more at a trio of festivals over the weekend.

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by 23320

[BFG]

The good news is, I don't think these 4,000 people speak for the other 246K or so who live in Norfolk. The bad news is, they're allowing themselves to act as the majority with disingenuous tactics.

[Young75]

The city needs to use some big city style politics and just build it. Forget them. This area will study you to death and still not do anything lol These people should not be allowed to stop progress. I feel like these are the same people that think single family suburban neighborhoods (Ghent Square and whatever that area is through Llewellyn) is acceptable in downtown. (I do like the trees tho) It’s NOT. These people have suburban mindsets in a place that calls itself the URBAN CORE. Please MOVE OUT OF NORFOLK if you don’t want to be in a CITY. I was reading a review at an apartment building in downtown Norfolk. They complained about noise outside.....why would you move to downtown then? I’m praying that they fail one way or the other in the end lol

[chris722]

A casino isn't going to do anything for Norfolk.  Won't do anything for Portsmouth either.  A lot of cities built casinos and they still suck.  Did casinos help Cleveland or Detroit?  In any meaningful way; I understand those cities have little gentrification action going on but did the casinos make any meaningful impact on their urban areas?

On 10/18/2019 at 2:09 AM, Young75 said:

The city needs to use some big city style politics and just build it. Forget them. This area will study you to death and still not do anything lol These people should not be allowed to stop progress. I feel like these are the same people that think single family suburban neighborhoods (Ghent Square and whatever that area is through Llewellyn) is acceptable in downtown. (I do like the trees tho) It’s NOT. These people have suburban mindsets in a place that calls itself the URBAN CORE. Please MOVE OUT OF NORFOLK if you don’t want to be in a CITY. I was reading a review at an apartment building in downtown Norfolk. They complained about noise outside.....why would you move to downtown then? I’m praying that they fail one way or the other in the end lol

Move out of Norfolk if you don't want to be in a city?  This is Hampton Roads, having a city that is a suburb that is rural is the entire point of being here I thought you already knew?  

[BFG]

Virginia Beach is the rural suburban city. Norfolk is the urban core, always has been, always will be. It looks like Mayor Alexander and council want to take things to the next level with new development, and it's a great thing to see. Norfolk is 30 years behind in a lot of areas, and they're finally taking notice downtown. However, a lot of growth relies on support from the other cities.

This may not be what puts Norfolk on the map, but it can help bring in more tourists and entertainment, and add to the nightlife, especially if they add restaurants and venues along the riverwalk leading to Waterside. Imagine the casino and ballpark, with restaurants, leading to Waterside, then over to Granby, into the NEON District, then loop back around to SPQ. A large, vibrant downtown could be a reality in the next five years, esp. if the city adds new towers and businesses, and the proposed arena.

Also, Detroit has undergone a major transformation over the last decade. I don't know how much casinos factored into that, but it's not the wasteland people think it is anymore.

[Young75]

17 hours ago, chris722 said:

A casino isn't going to do anything for Norfolk.  Won't do anything for Portsmouth either.  A lot of cities built casinos and they still suck.  Did casinos help Cleveland or Detroit?  In any meaningful way; I understand those cities have little gentrification action going on but did the casinos make any meaningful impact on their urban areas?

Move out of Norfolk if you don't want to be in a city?  This is Hampton Roads, having a city that is a suburb that is rural is the entire point of being here I thought you already knew?  

People drive hours just to get the experience I think it will. This will be the first casino in Virginia.The city actually comes alive more now so the casino will add to the experience of being here. Not only Norfolk but the whole area. One casino isn’t gonna wave a magical wand solve everything. Cleveland and Detroit have economies different from Norfolk/HR. I can see the comparison but the rust belt cities are in a whole different circumstance and the state politics are very different. This area actually has a mild climate and a beach. The experience is just different IMO.

A CITY that is a suburb that is rural?? Is that the impression that this area gives? Chesapeake? I guess yea but not Norfolk tho. Honestly Norfolk, Portsmouth, Newport News and Hampton are actually legit cities. Virginia Beach, Chesapeake and Suffolk are more like suburbs so you can still get the best of “all 3 worlds” lol Norfolk is only 54 sq miles let it be urban please.