Jump to content

Recommended Posts

It's just the parking lot next to Amtrak, right? The parking lots east of Harbor Park are set aside for other city projects, aren't they?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


8 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Well, I cannot see into the future, but the advent of any circumstances under which we would be buying back this particular plot of land ...in 50-100 years ...escapes me.

What about in three years, if the plans to build the casino fall through?  What about in 20 years, if the casino does not make the huge money everyone is assuming it will produce, and the Pamunkey tribe decides to close the casino?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BFG said:

It's just the parking lot next to Amtrak, right? The parking lots east of Harbor Park are set aside for other city projects, aren't they?

Does anyone really know? The closest I've been able to find is "13.5 acres of land next to Harbor Park". 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, virginia pe said:

What about in three years, if the plans to build the casino fall through?  What about in 20 years, if the casino does not make the huge money everyone is assuming it will produce, and the Pamunkey tribe decides to close the casino?

Remember, it's the Tennessee billionaire who will be financing this project. What makes you think that either he or the Tribe would want to keep idle a totally non-performing asset...in your scenario? In that case, the City would likely be first-in-line to buy-back this flood-prone plot--at a steep discount no less haha!

Seriously though, this land is currently generating zero dollars, and there are no other buyers...nor have there been since the dawn of time! 

$10M certainly isn't chump change here, especially in these times of diminishing returns on waterfront/water-adjacent properties.  Especially for a severely cash-strapped Norfolk which, frankly,  has no business being in the real estate business ....i.e, as in holding vacant land ...except in rare circumstances.

Should the project fail, it will likely be sold off and redeveloped with Fed Govt approval...or redeveloped by the Tribe and investor.  However, I'm pretty certain they will succeed, with Norfolk getting the $10M plus yearly seven figure payments, economic spin-off benefits and jobs, jobs, jobs. 

Of course we could always just plant some seagrass and wait for the tide to roll in....

 

Edited by baobabs727
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm feeling a bit better about the project now that I've found this site: https://www.norfolk.gov/4661/Resort-Casino

Have any of y'all seen it before? I don't want to be obstinate, but I hadn't seen it before and it was pretty hard to find (had to search "norfolk.gov casino" in google, "norfolk casino" and similar searches wouldn't pull it up). Was it distributed very much? 

This part still worries me, from the Q/A: 

Does the agreement with the city require the reported $700 million investment?

The total investment will be based on the scope of the final project.   At a minimum the tribe will construct a project that includes 750 electronic gaming machines, 25 gaming tables, 150 hotel guest rooms (if Class III gaming is approved), and parking.

I've seen this city bait-and-switched on too many times to get too caught up in the shiny $700MM promises and renderings and whatnot. I really hope they actually put good money into this thing and don't just meet the minimum requirements. And the "if Class III gaming is approved" is interesting. What if it isn't approved? What parts of the deal fall through if that happens?

Edited by Arctic_Tern

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prepare yourselves for yet another failed major endeavor in HR. That's right Nimbys, just go ahead and stop everything. Any major project, ever, runs into this. It's tiresome...

"While Barnett is against it, she insists the petition is not to stop it, but rather to slow the process down."

This is a lie. The sole purpose of the petition is to stop the casino. This is just what she tells people who may want the process to slow down, but don't want to do anything drastic that will impede Norfolk. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I rarely (read: never) read the comments, but I had to see what people were saying on this one.  For the first time in my life, I was actually pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed reading the comments, and that 99% of the people say this petition sucks. I'd love to see a pro-casino in Norfolk Facebook group pop up to prove just how many people support it...

City council has been discussing the casino for a year and a half.

Councilwoman McClellan has been on council since 2016. If council's been discussing this for that long, I would think she would've been aware. Honestly, this group is losing credibility more and more each day, and I think they're using the same tactics VB used to fight light rail.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, in the case of VB, those tactics were quite successful. We shouldn’t discount them, their efforts are very dangerous to this project.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Definitely a threat. 4,000 signitures is a drop in the bucket regarding the  areas population.  And the nimbys here seem pretty desperate at keeping any growth, and sucess out of our aria.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s absolutely a threat but I find it encouraging that they’re only halfway there while down to two weeks to get the rest. Each signature has to be verified against the list of registered voters so a lot of signatures are likely to get tossed. Unregistered, duplicate, & illegible signatures will be disqualified and if the person who collected the signatures on a particular sheet isn’t registered or if it doesn’t get notarized then the whole sheet gets tossed.   

Edited by 23320
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

End of the month, give or take. I don’t remember the exact date but they had 30 days. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where were these folks when the gaming machines got approved statewide? It's pretty depressing to see the folks who are spending dollar after dollar gambling in a 7/11. At least you expect to see that in a casino.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'm starting to understand these people's biggest gripe with the casino. Some of it is (in their eyes) the crime, but IMO, a lot of it is the fact that they feel threatened by the idea of Norfolk becoming more of a city, which makes them no different than VB. They like being a small, sleepy town of 250K, with its little quirks and moderate crime rate, when in reality, Norfolk isn't that much smaller than Orlando or Pittsburgh (city proper, not metro). It's weird, because they want the city to be more progressive, but when they start making decisions, they suddenly get cold feet. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, BFG said:

I think I'm starting to understand these people's biggest gripe with the casino. Some of it is (in their eyes) the crime, but IMO, a lot of it is the fact that they feel threatened by the idea of Norfolk becoming more of a city, which makes them no different than VB. They like being a small, sleepy town of 250K, with its little quirks and moderate crime rate, when in reality, Norfolk isn't that much smaller than Orlando or Pittsburgh (city proper, not metro). It's weird, because they want the city to be more progressive, but when they start making decisions, they suddenly get cold feet. 

I don’t think that theory stands up though because for the vast majority of our history Norfolk has been THE city. Va. Beach is the suburb. Norfolk has never been the sleepy little town that perhaps they think it is (just look at pictures of Norfolk from the 30s). It just doesn’t make sense.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious what their spiel is when they approach citizens to try and get these "signatures"? Let's be honest, a vast majority of people are pretty ignorant on many issues. They can be influenced very easily with just a quick "shock value" type sentence or statement. You can easily paint the casino and the gambling industry into a nuclear bomb making factory next to a ball field.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It needs to be changed to 8k signatures.  This would stop these types of nuisance campaigns.   4k is a very low threshold in a pop of 250k.

Theirs is a campaign of lies and deceit. They are against the casino. They tell the ignorant, the undecided and the go-along/bandwagon crowd that they merely wanna slow things down. Cuz who could be against that, right? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I read correctly, the 4K is based on a percentage of turnout from a prior election. I do agree the number should be higher, say 10K-25K.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, vdogg said:

I don’t think that theory stands up though because for the vast majority of our history Norfolk has been THE city. Va. Beach is the suburb. Norfolk has never been the sleepy little town that perhaps they think it is (just look at pictures of Norfolk from the 30s). It just doesn’t make sense.

It doesn’t, but in the last 40 or 50 years, it feels like Norfolk lost that bustling city status from the 1940s-50s. To me, it feels like the city got complacent, and added little things here and there (Waterside, MacArthur, The Main) to try to reclaim the nightlife. I’ll admit I’m comparing Norfolk 2019 to that 1937 picture I posted, but something’s missing, and I don’t want the NIMBYs ruining any potential progress.

That said, people cried over light rail and The Main too, so we shall see. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This story gets more and more bizarre. Apparently, a few people wanted their names taken off the petition; the city provided a way to do so, but the Mayor told them to take that down as to be fair to petitioners. 

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-casino-petition-name-remove-20191015-bqqmmrwaefehneemevbjuhvzay-story.html

Anyway, the grassroots No Casino NIMBY "Let's Wait and See" group is roughly halfway to their goal with a week and a half to go. I don't think this is getting the momentum they want. I talked to my mom this morning, who more or less oversees the local bingo halls. She and I both agreed that you can find people in 7-11 buying stacks of lottery tickets or playing the machines there. Never mind the people in bingo halls spending their rent or social security money hoping to win a little more. Gambling addiction is real, but to use it here is a weak argument, IMO, given what we already have in the state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.