Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[BeagleAccountant]

2 minutes ago, NFKjeff said:

Reconsider their plan in what way? 

I don't think there will be any changes to the plan save possibly for design elements. The Pamunkey tribe have hired among the very best firms in regard to gaming resort architecture and design. They have it down to a science. Thorough market analysis was performed and approved. Capacity will be very adequate, and it will not be overcrowded as with all projects there will be enforceable max capacity rules. If they eventually find the need more gaming space they would probably elect to build it above the parking deck after adding more parking of course. 

The big takeaway IMO is that Norfolk is getting a high quality resort casino, expanding their tax base, and the Elizabeth River Trail is getting extended in a beautiful way which will open the brownfield properties in the Harbor Park area to future meaningful developments.

Very excited for their installation of the seawall and the docks.  And looking forward to spending future NCAA tournaments watching games in their Sportsbook.
 

If I remember correctly, wasn’t there a master plan for SPQ that included a massive park in this area?  That park could also act as a place to push water to during Nor’easters.

[brikkman]

These sketches actually leave out the railroad and amtrack station. I'm sure it was an oversight.

[zeppelin14]

Wouldn't it be great if part of the plans of all of this was to rebuild the Boathouse too?!!!

[Norf Native]

This is what they are proposing for temporary operations.

 

[SuffolkWahoo]

23 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Very excited for their installation of the seawall and the docks.  And looking forward to spending future NCAA tournaments watching games in their Sportsbook.
 

If I remember correctly, wasn’t there a master plan for SPQ that included a massive park in this area?  That park could also act as a place to push water to during Nor’easters.

So funny you say this.  My buddies and I roamed Granby yesterday and ended up watching the tourney at Waterside (still dead as a doornail).  We all talked about how stoked we are to eventually be able to watch the tourney at Headwaters.   

[BFG]

35 minutes ago, SuffolkWahoo said:

So funny you say this.  My buddies and I roamed Granby yesterday and ended up watching the tourney at Waterside (still dead as a doornail).  We all talked about how stoked we are to eventually be able to watch the tourney at Headwaters.   

I’ll go one further. I look forward to eventually seeing a couple first-round games at the new Dollar Tree Arena (I made that up). Imagine seeing Richmond or St. Peter’s pull off an upset in our hometown state-of-the-art arena!

[BeagleAccountant]

1 hour ago, SuffolkWahoo said:

So funny you say this.  My buddies and I roamed Granby yesterday and ended up watching the tourney at Waterside (still dead as a doornail).  We all talked about how stoked we are to eventually be able to watch the tourney at Headwaters.   

Should have just taken an uber over to Dirty Buff or Cogans North. Best sports bars in the area.

I will add that I went to a mardi gras (two weeks ago) and st patricks day event (last weekend) at Waterside and it was packed. They do good with those big events and weekend nights at PBR. Otherwise, yeah, it's pretty dead.

[SuffolkWahoo]

We  only went to Waterside to utilize their giant 20' screen haha. 

[BeagleAccountant]

On 3/17/2022 at 5:29 PM, Norf Native said:

This is what they are proposing for temporary operations.

 

Here's a Pilot article on the temporary casino. It also is pretty clear from him comments that Ken Young doesn't want the casino at the stadium to be temporary:
https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-harbor-park-casino-0324-20220323-az5x72gbuzfjpiyakjqaypnenu-story.html

[HRVA]

44 minutes ago, BeagleAccountant said:

Here's a Pilot article on the temporary casino. It also is pretty clear from him comments that Ken Young doesn't want the casino at the stadium to be temporary:
https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-harbor-park-casino-0324-20220323-az5x72gbuzfjpiyakjqaypnenu-story.html

I’m not opposed to the casino, nor a temporary or permanent location at Harbor Park, but the referendum was very specific about the site. Could that be a roadblock to this?  Is there a workaround?

Edited March 24, 2022 by HRVA

[baobabs727]

To answer an earlier question....from looking at the dev. package online,  I believe the gaming floor will "only" be around 78K sf.

[BeagleAccountant]

At yesterday's planning commission meeting, they discussed both versions of the casino; temporary and permanent. If you watch the meeting (link below) you will learn that if the city does approve the temporary casino HeadWaters is required to purchase the restaurant and boxing gym space from the city. And that the casino plans to continue operating it as a luxury skybox (this part was sort of unclear) for casino guests once the permanent casino opens.
http://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/SplitView.aspx?Mode=Video&MeetingID=2440&Format=Agenda

[vdogg]

Surprised they're still doing Zoom meetings. About time to get back to doing these in person where the public can attend.

 

[BeagleAccountant]

2 hours ago, vdogg said:

Surprised they're still doing Zoom meetings. About time to get back to doing these in person where the public can attend.

 

The public can attend the zoom meetings. I would even argue that since they're held during the standard 9 to 5 working day, the zoom meetings make it so more people can attend.

[HRVA]

Listened to a podcast recently about the entitlement process and the lawyer being interviewed said the virtual meetings were more favorable for developers and was pushing his clients to take advantage of them while they lasted. Takes away the strength in numbers of opponents especially since most of them don’t actually speak. 

[BFG]

A judge dismissed the Cordish breach of contract lawsuit against the city.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-pamunkey-casino-cordish-20220415-mvxvadu65ba33iy66dgtyk25ji-story.html

[BeagleAccountant]

52 minutes ago, HRVA said:

Listened to a podcast recently about the entitlement process and the lawyer being interviewed said the virtual meetings were more favorable for developers and was pushing his clients to take advantage of them while they lasted. Takes away the strength in numbers of opponents especially since most of them don’t actually speak. 

I am not about to speak for other cities, but as a civic league board member I can tell you the process in Norfolk has been beneficial to our civic league. We can get a lot more people to commit to attend and speak with the zoom meetings than I could ever get when it required them to be at city hall. You just need to be organized and register to speak at the meeting well ahead of time. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by BeagleAccountant

[baobabs727]

For a multitude of reasons that should be self-evident, there is simply no substitute for in-person meetings. 

[vdogg]

Project goes before the planning commission for its downtown development certificate on April 28th. This is the final step in the planning process, however they still need to receive their casino operating license before they can begin construction.

[Norf Native]

So how many years does it take to get the license? Sheesh...

[NFKfloodcaptain]

In the City Council Retreat last month the developers said that the difference in license time has to do with the complexity of the project. Others (like Portsmouth) had a build ready site and pretty basic architectural plan. This one's not a casino in a box on an existing parking lot. The headwaters plan involves substantial waterfront pier removal, wetlands restoration/management, and other complex parts that needed to be detailed first. The plan has to get all of its normal building design approvals before a license will be issued, and that simply takes longer with more complex project. 

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, NFKjeff said:

I am aware of the complexities of the HeadWaters Resort plan, and frankly IMO the waterfront revitalization aspect should be very well received. As far as I know the VA Lottery Board has not issued any of the licenses to the new casinos, and plan to issue them all at once. 

What I don't understand is why some of the projects are going forward with construction and others, namely HeadWaters, is not.

It's developer preference and boils down to the amount of risk they can tolerate. The Pamunkey and their financiers don't want to take the risk of proceeding without a license. The casino in Portsmouth wants to be first, but they're taking a calculated risk in that if something happens and they're ultimately denied their license, they'll be left holding the bag owing a lot of money.  As much as I dislike the delay, the Pamunkey approach is far more prudent.

[virginia pe]

Is it possible that it is not the casino operating license that is holding it up?  As NFK pointed out, this project involves substantial waterfront pier removal, wetlands restoration/management along a navigable waterway.  All of these require permits from Department of Environmental Quality, the Corps of Engineers, the U.S. Coast Guard, and a myriad of other state and federal agencies.  All of these take time, and the Norfolk Building Inspector cannot issue a building permit without all of the necessary permits in hand.  Ironically, it could be the City of Norfolk is holding up its own project, but their hands are tied.

[baobabs727]

I agree that there has been no real,  journalistic exposition of this licensing issue--neither on a Headwinds-specific subject matter basis, nor on a comparative basis, statewide.  Perhaps if the Pilot maintained a deeper reporter pool there would be actual reportage on this issue and on other positive, local economic development news.  'Tis a pity that the few reporters the Pilot has left seemingly are tasked with covering grievance politics and crime.

Edited April 22, 2022 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

First casino license issued in Danville. Hopefully a sign of others to shortly follow. 

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/va-lottery-board-awards-first-casino-license/?oly_enc_id=5578C4114245D9O