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Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)


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33 minutes ago, 23320 said:

Looked into the requirements for the referendum petition that is being discussed and it is a different process than how the light rail referendum was done. The petitioners have 30 days to collect 4,100 signatures (based on 25% of the turnout for the last municipal election). Council will then have the opportunity to reconsider the ordinance & if they do not then it get on a ballot for voters to decide. They don’t  have enough time to get it on November’s ballot so it seems likely, based on the timing requirements, that there could be a special election early next year with just a repeal of the vote last night. 

Summary of the time requirements:

-30 days following adoption of ordinance to collect signatures 

-30 days for council to reconsider 

-20 days for petitioners to request election

-10 days for clerk to certify signatures

-5 days to set election within 30-60 days

If it gets to a vote, I expect it to be campaigned as a referendum on casinos as a whole &, if successful, would threaten the casino’s likelihood & potentially even the casinos being considered by the state next year.  

The land will be transferred to the Pamunkey before the end of the month. Land trust application will be filed with BIA on October 1st. Once submitted, this application CANNOT be rescinded. This is why Andria wanted to postpone the whole thing until next year. Once the trust process is started, that’s it. 

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Ashley Barnett has taken up the mantle for the no crowd.  They have a Facebook page that looks suspiciously similar to the “Say No to Light Rail” page. These folks are so transparent. They claim they just want to take time to investigate, but their actions indicate that their minds are already made up. 

https://m.facebook.com/NoNorfolkCasino/

Umm...No, the public did not say no. Did I miss a vote somewhere? Half the speakers were against which means half were for, even after they probably put out a call to have their members flood the meeting, half the speakers were still FOR the casino. They’re already lying, which tells you all you need to know about these folks.

 

FBA17E5A-9495-48B1-96B2-5FA6A8EA7083.jpeg

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1 hour ago, vdogg said:

Ashley Barnett has taken up the mantle for the no crowd.  They have a Facebook page that looks suspiciously similar to the “Say No to Light Rail” page. These folks are so transparent. They claim they just want to take time to investigate, but their actions indicate that their minds are already made up. 

https://m.facebook.com/NoNorfolkCasino/

Umm...No, the public did not say no. Did I miss a vote somewhere? Half the speakers were against which means half were for, even after they probably put out a call to have their members flood the meeting, half the speakers were still FOR the casino. They’re already lying, which tells you all you need to know about these folks.

 

FBA17E5A-9495-48B1-96B2-5FA6A8EA7083.jpeg

And when you look at Councilwoman McClellan’s, Mayor Alexander’s, or the GHENTNFK Facebook, the reaction has been 50/50 across the board. This is getting ridiculous. 

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I don't think we have heard the end from the Nansemond tribe.  The Nansemond are prohibited by law from operating a casino, but I do not see them standing idly by while the Pamunkey tribe rakes in all this money.  I can see the Nansemonds filing a lawsuit claiming the "tribal land" where the casino is to be built is more Nanesmond than Pamunkey, with the ultimate goal of forcing the Pamunkey tribe to share some of the casino profits with them.  

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Good grief, here we go...

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-casino-referendum-prep-20190925-nw2eztrcjzhdxnbv4ubt2muzmq-story.html

“Barnett said she’s out-and-out opposed to the casino idea and planned talk to lawyers about getting an injunction to prevent any movement on the part of the city or tribe while they gather signatures. “Norfolk doesn’t need a casino. ... Our city wants to make itself better and this ain’t it,” she said outside Schaefer’s office Wednesday.”

Where were you a year ago Ashley when all this was getting announced? This is so ridiculous...

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On 9/23/2019 at 2:57 PM, Arctic_Tern said:

It seems y'all are very quick to give up Norfolk land to a sovereign nation. The City will never be able to reclaim that land once handed over to the tribe. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to take careful footing to make sure we're making the right decision here.

They aren’t getting the land for free. They are paying 8mil for it, and this vote is essentially giving the city money for nothing. 100,000/yr for five years in exchange for an agreement to do nothing with property hasn’t been developed in 20 years... 

 

I’m surprised and glad the city got the job done...

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23 minutes ago, Qdeathstar said:

They aren’t getting the land for free. They are paying 8mil for it, and this vote is essentially giving the city money for nothing. 100,000/yr for five years in exchange for an agreement to do nothing with property hasn’t been developed in 20 years... 

 

I’m surprised and glad the city got the job done...

I don’t think that what was meant. Sure Norfolk is getting the appraised value of the property but in doing so a piece of Norfolk is essentially being annexed. Normally, when a city sells a property it’s still part of the city - not a sovereign nation. 

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1 hour ago, vdogg said:

It’s a parking lot... There is no shortage of those in Norfolk. I simply cannot believe we are arguing over the historical significance of pavement right now. Want to talk about Norfolk losing land, let’s talk about all the land the federal government has taken off the tax rolls with bases and court houses. Now that’s an issue. I have no problem with Native Americans purchasing a small sliver of vacant land that was once theirs to begin with.

Not trying to argue it or say it’s historical - just pointing the fact out. Federal or even state land are good examples but even with those the land can transfer back to the tax rolls. 

I am excited that something is happening here since, other than Amtrak & Harbor Park around 70 days a year, the area is a complete dead zone & the casino will likely spur surrounding development. Although I am pessimistic that they’ll deliver what they’ve shown in the initial renderings. 

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5 hours ago, 23320 said:

Not trying to argue it or say it’s historical - just pointing the fact out. Federal or even state land are good examples but even with those the land can transfer back to the tax rolls. 

I am excited that something is happening here since, other than Amtrak & Harbor Park around 70 days a year, the area is a complete dead zone & the casino will likely spur surrounding development. Although I am pessimistic that they’ll deliver what they’ve shown in the initial renderings. 

Bingo! I see a bait and switch coming. I just don't see the market for this mega-casino. Sure, some of the Richmond folks that go to Baltimore and/or National Harbor will head to Norfolk sometime soon. Sure, the same goes for Raleigh/Durham. But I think the idea that this is going to be a 3/4 billion dollar revenue casino is pie in the sky (and the Pamunkey know it). They'll get the land and what will ultimately get built will be some 16 story half fast casino that delivers far less than the rendering and current promises. 

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3 hours ago, HRVT said:

Bingo! I see a bait and switch coming. I just don't see the market for this mega-casino. Sure, some of the Richmond folks that go to Baltimore and/or National Harbor will head to Norfolk sometime soon. Sure, the same goes for Raleigh/Durham. But I think the idea that this is going to be a 3/4 billion dollar revenue casino is pie in the sky (and the Pamunkey know it). They'll get the land and what will ultimately get built will be some 16 story half fast casino that delivers far less than the rendering and current promises. 

I did some digging on Google search, and found a few tribal hotel/casinos in Oklahoma and Connecticut. I have a feeling it'll look something like the ones below.

hotel1.jpg

hotel3.jpg

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9 hours ago, HRVT said:

Bingo! I see a bait and switch coming. I just don't see the market for this mega-casino. Sure, some of the Richmond folks that go to Baltimore and/or National Harbor will head to Norfolk sometime soon. Sure, the same goes for Raleigh/Durham. But I think the idea that this is going to be a 3/4 billion dollar revenue casino is pie in the sky (and the Pamunkey know it). They'll get the land and what will ultimately get built will be some 16 story half fast casino that delivers far less than the rendering and current promises. 

vb tourism will help with casino traffic i think....

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On 9/28/2019 at 6:44 AM, Norva757 said:

I have a feeling with the NIMBYs and the Nansemond Tribe this will be shot down now

Nansemond Tribe response

 I’m struggling to understand exactly what the Nansemond want. They can’t do the casino themselves, so they just want to shoot down theproject because? 

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13 hours ago, vdogg said:

 I’m struggling to understand exactly what the Nansemond want. They can’t do the casino themselves, so they just want to shoot down project because? 

I think its a matter of them actually living in this area and the other tribe getting recognition for a region they never lived in...it also could be a play to get a cut in on the revenue

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Cathy Lewis of WHRV had Councilwoman McClellan, along with a couple others on her HearSay talk show today. Councilwoman McClellan addressed the same concerns we've already heard, but one of the other guests is from the "No Casino in Norfolk" group that started a petition. If I may be petty for a second, the fact that she kept pronouncing Norfolk as "Nor-folk" was off-putting and made me take the petition even less seriously. :P

Jokes aside, Cathy had opinions from both sides, but the ones in favor had the level-headed approach I agree with: don't let fear stop this from happening. This area never takes chances and remains complacent with status quo. One listener also said that people were fearful about Something in the Water, and that proved a lotta people wrong. 

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The NIMBYs are still going on about this being rushed, corrupt, and too much like big money developers taking over. I dunno about the first two, but Norfolk has 250,000 people. This is the kind of thing cities our size do...make big developments. 

They promised money to the schools and you’re still upset. Is this really about the development or are you threatened by the possibility of Norfolk and HR actually trying to be a little progressive?

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So they gave Andria exactly what she asked for and she's still.....umm.... 'disagreeing' and voted no. This is how I know she's not a serious partner. No amount of money will be good enough, she simply doesn't want a casino. Council shouldn't attempt to kowtow to her demands any more. Just move forward and let her continue voting no.

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Can anyone list the things she has accomplished as a representative for her district? I've tried to find some but I keep getting "She fights for this and that", "She likes this and that". Well I like ice cream and fight for 3 day weekends but it doesn't make me a representative. I understand she fights for school repairs and quality education...but who doesn't? Has there ever been a candidate that ran on dirty drinking water and crumbling schools?

All I'm saying is she's so freaking worried about the negative impact this casino could have on her district...what has she done to improve it? Has she ever authored something that led to $10M being pumped into any school or even saved $100 for the city or NPS's? I don't do FB or twitter but I can see the sheep that follow her and praise her for her placebic tweets and retweets.  So, maybe someone here can enlighten me on her accomplishments.   

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