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Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

Norf Native

By Norf Native
in Norfolk

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zeppelin14
zeppelin14

"Meats" on a quarterly basis? I bet there are high steaks involved too.

BFG
BFG

It's official...they don't have enough signatures. https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-casino-petition-deadline-20191024-llbxc2gzvfai7jkvzfdnt6umgy-story.html

vdogg
vdogg

The fact that they were only able to get 3600 signatures in a city this large is telling. It's especially telling that they weren't able to brow beat the people who didn't even know that there was a c

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Why is there way more detail on the size and scope of the Richmond casino when they just said recently that they won't be able to nail down the size and scope of the Norfolk one until the legislation is voted on? Additionally, I question the wisdom of building in Richmond, which is right on the 95 corridor, if they also still plan to build in Norfolk. Won't they be cannibalizing their own clientele? What incentive does someone in NoVa has for going to the Norfolk Casino when there's one in Richmond only an hour away? Questions need to be asked...

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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34 minutes ago, Norf native said:

Could it be because of competing proposals in this area?  There’s no competition from the surrounding areas near Richmond (that I’ve heard of). 

But the Norfolk one was much further along than Portsmouth. They would've been first out the gate.

The pilot has absolutely nothing on this.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Perhaps the tribal option did have an effect.

"However, the Norfolk project depends on the General Assembly passing and Gov. Ralph Northam signing legislation this year to allow commercial gaming in Virginia. The state adopted legislation last year that specifically would allow casinos in five cities, including Richmond and Norfolk, but the legislation would have to be passed again this year to become law.

In contrast, the Richmond project could move forward regardless of the legislative outcome because the Pamunkeys are the only Indian tribe in Virginia that has federal gaming rights under the Indian Regulatory Gaming Act. 

"With Richmond, we maintain the flexibility to pursue the federal route if a commercial bill does not pass, or even if a commercial bill passes," spokesman Jay Smith said Friday.

Smith said the agreement with Norfolk is based on a state licensed commercial gaming operation, so the tribe would have to renegotiate the deal to assert its federal gaming rights there."

It's still strange to me. The legislation is pretty much guaranteed to pass. The land in Richmond must still be placed into Trust, which will take longer than the commercial route.

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VAGATOR Whistle-Stop

VAGATOR

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22 hours ago, vdogg said:

But the Norfolk one was much further along than Portsmouth. They would've been first out the gate.

The pilot has absolutely nothing on this.

The only casino in Hampton Roads will be in Portsmouth because of Louise Lucas...you can bet on that. The tribe is smartly moving in another direction.

 

 

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urbanfan Hamlet

urbanfan

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On 1/17/2020 at 7:11 PM, vdogg said:

Why is there way more detail on the size and scope of the Richmond casino when they just said recently that they won't be able to nail down the size and scope of the Norfolk one until the legislation is voted on? Additionally, I question the wisdom of building in Richmond, which is right on the 95 corridor, if they also still plan to build in Norfolk. Won't they be cannibalizing their own clientele? What incentive does someone in NoVa has for going to the Norfolk Casino when there's one in Richmond only an hour away? Questions need to be asked...

D.C. will not be traveling down here to hit casinos when Ocean City and others are closer and more lucrative.  Both markets have over 1 million in population and are well over three hours away from the nearest casino.  I do not believe either will be in competition.  However, the one in Richmond is going the tribal route unlike the one in Hampton Roads which is banking on General Assembly approval.  If that is the case HR casino should get built sooner.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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2 hours ago, VAGATOR said:

The only casino in Hampton Roads will be in Portsmouth because of Louise Lucas...you can bet on that. The tribe is smartly moving in another direction.

 

 

Sorry, not buying that.

6 minutes ago, NFKjeff said:

Nonsense. If the Pamunkey actually thought this they would not have bothered to sign a contract with Norfolk less than a week ago. Richmond and Hampton Roads are both large enough markets to each support a casino.

The original developer of the Portsmouth Casino bailed when they moved it inland from the waterfront. They don't even have another developer lined up yet. Norfolk Casino will definitely be built first.

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HRVA Hamlet

HRVA

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6 hours ago, vdogg said:

The original developer of the Portsmouth Casino bailed when they moved it inland from the waterfront. They don't even have another developer lined up yet. Norfolk Casino will definitely be built first.

Portsmouth does have another developer: Rush Street Gaming.  They were announced in November & said construction could start in January 2021 if the bill & referendum pass. 

Portsmouth officials to announce casino partnership

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VAGATOR Whistle-Stop

VAGATOR

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, vdogg said:

Sorry, not buying that.

The original developer of the Portsmouth Casino bailed when they moved it inland from the waterfront. They don't even have another developer lined up yet. Norfolk Casino will definitely be built first.

You don't have to buy it. She has been on this casino stuff for decades. She is one of the most senior and powerful Senators in Virginia. No casino bill is passing without "her casino."   Northam ain't crossing her over this, especially considering his past racial problems.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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1 hour ago, VAGATOR said:

You don't have to buy it. She has been on this casino stuff for decades. She is one of the most senior and powerful Senators in Virginia. No casino bill is passing without "her casino."   Northam ain't crossing her over this, especially considering his past racial problems.

I'm not talking about Portsmouth being removed from casino legislation, I'm saying Norfolk won't be. She doesn't have the votes to pass any bill without Norfolk in it. That's just a fact. She may be powerful, but she still needs allies to get this across the finish line.

And even attempting to pass a bill without Norfolk in it is tantamount to mutually assured destruction. Nobody will get anything, which is just the way Hampton Roads has always been. So everyone should hope that this doesn't occur.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Here's an interesting tidbit that I haven't seen in any other article. The floor for spending on the project is actually set by the state legislation.

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/pamunkey-tribe-proposes-350m-casino-in-richmond/

"A timeline has not been announced on the project, but the Norfolk casino has taken more than a year to move toward City Council approval. The General Assembly is considering legislation this session that would allow limited casino gaming in Portsmouth, Norfolk, Richmond, Danville and Bristol, restricted to one casino per locality, with operators being required to invest at least $200 million or more in each project."

So, by law, they can't go any lower than that. I know we're not going to get the initial $750 million, but if we could push this to $400 million that would be very good for the area.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Woah! Is this...Is this regionalism again? Dare I say we've finally figured out we can get big things done when we work together? I'm shocked. :shok:

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/virginia/vp-nw-casino-agreement-general-assembly-20200204-nbrz54x5nnhsrpj622gpue6dje-story.html

"Officials with each city seemed to be in agreement Tuesday with the House and Senate versions of the bill. Lucas said the cities were “welded at the hip,” with no chance of lawmakers leaving one out as the bill moves through the legislative process.

“Portsmouth City Council is 100% behind this legislation,” said Portsmouth Mayor John Rowe in the Senate subcommittee meeting."

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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On 1/20/2020 at 11:00 AM, vdogg said:

Here's an interesting tidbit that I haven't seen in any other article. The floor for spending on the project is actually set by the state legislation.

https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/pamunkey-tribe-proposes-350m-casino-in-richmond/

"A timeline has not been announced on the project, but the Norfolk casino has taken more than a year to move toward City Council approval. The General Assembly is considering legislation this session that would allow limited casino gaming in Portsmouth, Norfolk, Richmond, Danville and Bristol, restricted to one casino per locality, with operators being required to invest at least $200 million or more in each project."

So, by law, they can't go any lower than that. I know we're not going to get the initial $750 million, but if we could push this to $400 million that would be very good for the area.

Looks like we're getting a $375 million casino. Not quite 400, but respectable given the circumstances. That will make for a fairly decent sized project.

"For example, Norfolk City Manager Chip Filer said he expects the Pamunkey’s investment to be around $375 million. That casino would then be taxed 15% on its first $200 million in sales, then 20% on any sales between $200 million and $400 million. If they make more than $400 million, they’ll be taxed a rate of 28%."

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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From reading the article, it looks like Richmond will be forced to choose between the Pamunkey tribe and Colonial Downs. Obviously, the Pamunkey is a no brainer, but I wonder how it would affect our casino down here if Richmond decides on Colonial Downs instead. That might get us back to close to 700 million.

The bill which now heads to the full General Laws committee in both the House and the Senate, gives four out of the five cities the option to pick whichever owner they want to build a casino.

But as the Senate bill is written, Richmond will have to choose between a Pamunkey Indian Tribe-backed plan and a Colonial Downs casino. Scott Johnson, a lobbyist representing the casino in Bristol, presented the bill to legislators and said the Richmond deal was a “product of negotiation.”

Colonial Downs, a representative argued, is the major gaming establishment in Virginia and should be given preference. And the Pamunkey Indian Tribe historically lays claim to some land in Richmond

 

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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You have got to be kidding me! Cordish doesn't have a leg to stand on. All this time and they try to hold up progress now. Norfolk is under no obligation to grant them anything. Why is it so hard to get anything done in this city? Go ahead and take legal action. I hope they go bankrupt.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-cordish-casino-pamunkey-20200306-vakfcukkefdn7op5ff5zmgodou-story.html

So these folks actually think that they're going to be able to cancel a $350 million deal just so they can put in a couple of slots at Waterside? They honestly believe that they have the right to hold this city hostage. I wish we never got involved with them.

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vdogg Megalopolis

vdogg

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Once the general assembly passes the bill and the Pamunkey purchases the land that's it, it's theirs. Once the referendum is held and they get their license they can build a casino no matter what action Cordish takes against Norfolk. This whole thing reeks of desperation.

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