Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[Icetera]

2 hours ago, Arctic_Tern said:

I  don't think Richmond had it on the ballot this year. There's a couple proposals up there now so that might have to come at a later date.

Correct, ours is expected next November, unfortunately.  This date was codified in the prior State Bill.

Anyway, CONGRATS Norfolk!!

[BFG]

I figured it would pass, just by looking at how many people follow the Pro-Casino vs. No Casino groups on Facebook. Looking forward to seeing this happen.

[baobabs727]

Cordish to sue the city of Norfolk for breach of contract for championing the Pamunkey Tribe’s casino while not backing their own proposal for a Casino at Waterside District. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/norfolk-voters-ok-pamunkey-casino-203800275.html

Edited November 7, 2020 by baobabs727

[urbanlife]

On 11/6/2020 at 8:07 PM, baobabs727 said:

Cordish to sue the city of Norfolk for breach of contract for championing the Pamunkey Tribe’s casino while not backing their own proposal for a Casino at Waterside District. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/norfolk-voters-ok-pamunkey-casino-203800275.html

An easy solution would be to also back the Cordish plan for a casino and hotel tower attached to Waterside. As a betting man, I would say that would be a smart bet for the city.

[BFG]

Would anybody even be upset if they simply converted Waterside into a casino, and keep one or two restaurants? Would we really be missing any nightlife we can’t get elsewhere?

[baobabs727]

14 hours ago, urbanlife said:

An easy solution would be to also back the Cordish plan for a casino and hotel tower attached to Waterside. As a betting man, I would say that would be a smart bet for the city.

Well since they’ve always wanted to build  an apt. tower, I wonder if that land would support an apt/hotel tower?  That’d be one tall, heavy Bldg. 

7 hours ago, BFG said:

Would anybody even be upset if they simply converted Waterside into a casino, and keep one or two restaurants? Would we really be missing any nightlife we can’t get elsewhere?

Not really. That way they could use the upstairs finally and all the other spaces you don’t see that are empty, hidden behind frosted walls.  But would it be big enough? Perhaps if you closed in the open area on the 2nd floor above the bar, or ran the casino into the hotel’s first floor or something.

[BFG]

I'm thinking back to my times spent at Jillian's, which I believe was in the now-demolished annex. But if you take the space above what's now Guy Fieri's and the PBR, you might could have a smaller casino.

[vdogg]

The city says that they have approached Cordish about modifying the lease but Cordish has not responded. Also, the referendum only approved a casino for that particular location, Harbor Park, and not for casinos city wide. Cordish would need different legislation in order to proceed. They really don't have legal grounds in this case.

[baobabs727]

6 hours ago, vdogg said:

The city says that they have approached Cordish about modifying the lease but Cordish has not responded. Also, the referendum only approved a casino for that particular location, Harbor Park, and not for casinos city wide. Cortish would need different legislation in order to proceed. They really don't have legal grounds in this case.

Well, that’s taking the City‘S position at face value. We don’t know that Cordish doesn’t have a case, though I believe they’re probably just trying to force some concessions from the City. Perhaps to get their tower built?
 

Certainly, we could all agree that it’s less than optimal to have (seemingly) very poor relations with Cordish given that they occupy one of the crown jewel parcels of Norfolk. They need to figure it out, both sides working together. 

[brikkman]

12 hours ago, BFG said:

I'm thinking back to my times spent at Jillian's, which I believe was in the now-demolished annex. But if you take the space above what's now Guy Fieri's and the PBR, you might could have a smaller casino.

If I remember correctly, it was housed in the standing wing.. The side that was demolished housed hooters and have a nice day cafe...

[brikkman]

On 11/4/2020 at 10:23 AM, Arctic_Tern said:

How would it change their thoughts on SPQ? They're two different projects with two different goals and incentives around them. The lack of flow might also be due to the fact that there's an interstate and sea of parking between the two.

Always keep in mind when I mention SPQ, I hate the plan, every part of it other than the demo, I'm admittedly incredibly biased, lol. But to answer your question: for Norfolk it wouldn't change their minds but it certainly should IMO.  As I see it, this is Norfolk's last shot to change its landscape. There is a certain segment that wishes for them to create an environment at would extend the city core eastward and there is another half that just wants to see something new. Both i can appreciate, but I've felt in the last 10/15 years something has been off about the city's direction, almost like they are trying to compete with suburbia and I think that is a bad approach.  Keep in mind, I 'm never referring to the north or north East portion of SPQ but directly east. So conceptually, they build a casino that includes gambling and entertainment a few yards from family, parks, and homes? Let's be reminded in part what they are trying to create (see attached). They are essentially building suburbia with a street grid... I've said this time and time again, its a LOT of land in SPQ, they are completely shorting it. The reason I said it lacks flow, there is no reason to put that development there especially if you are considering a casino yards away from families, homes, neigbhorhoods (a new neighborhood). It gives the impression of someone just plotting things down that are now available... Just my two cents that means nothing.

[BFG]

5 hours ago, brikkman said:

If I remember correctly, it was housed in the standing wing.. The side that was demolished housed hooters and have a nice day cafe...

You're right. I was backwards. 

As for your thoughts on SPQ, I agree. I could live with a midrise district, but the area where Popeye's and McDonald's sit should be reserved for taller buildings, esp. since downtown proper only has a few lots remaining.

[virginia pe]

On 11/8/2020 at 6:00 PM, baobabs727 said:

Well since they’ve always wanted to build  an apt. tower, I wonder if that land would support an apt/hotel tower?  That’d be one tall, heavy Bldg. 

 

The land near the ground surface cannot support a high-rise building.  All of the major high-rise buildings downtown are supported on piles.  They piles are about 80 feet deep, and bear on a rock strata called the Yorktown formation.  The Yorktown formation is probably capable of supporting a high-rise hotel tower. 

[baobabs727]

Cool. Well, piles it would be then! I remember when BG had all those piles put in the ground for Granby Tower. 

20 hours ago, virginia pe said:

The land near the ground surface cannot support a high-rise building.  All of the major high-rise buildings downtown are supported on piles.  They piles are about 80 feet deep, and bear on a rock strata called the Yorktown formation.  The Yorktown formation is probably capable of supporting a high-rise hotel tower. 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

Had an epiphany the other day. I wonder what the possibility would be of cordish dropping their lawsuit and collaborating with the Pamunkey and bringing their full Waterside Live concept to the casino resort area? Cordish could have their apartment tower and a Waterside Live akin to what they have up in the Baltimore area. I think this would be best for both companies and for entertainment options in the area. On a side note, the Pamunkey have already put out for construction bids as of November 16th. It would appear that they are much further along in the design process than previously indicated. They really seem to want to hit the ground running.

[vdogg]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vadogwood.com/2020/11/24/what-will-new-casino-bring-to-norfolk-pamunkey-tribe/

“The casino’s exact opening date is still in question. Smith noted however that progress is underway. 

“We are currently starting our architectural designs and beginning the permitting process,” Smith said. “We hope to break ground in the spring of 2021, so just several months away, with our goal of a completion date and opening by the end of 2022.””

 

 

[lammius]

Very aggressive timeline. I wonder how realistic it is.

[carolinaboy]

I wish this project much success but remain skeptical about how it will turn out.

[Qdeathstar]

10 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

I wish this project much success but remain skeptical about how it will turn out.

why? People love throwing money in the trash.   i think it will do great, candy wait to ball up a few jefferson’s myself.

On 12/3/2020 at 4:58 PM, lammius said:

Very aggressive timeline. I wonder how realistic it is.

 

 

I think it depends on permitting. 2 years is enough to get the casino open. 

[carolinaboy]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:52 PM, Qdeathstar said:

why? People love throwing money in the trash.   i think it will do great, candy wait to ball up a few jefferson’s myself.

 

 

I think it depends on permitting. 2 years is enough to get the casino open. 

For me, the location seems questionable. Separated from downtown proper, view of an industrial working river (as opposed to a scenic river view). I just feel like a site in downtown with a *better* water view and access to other downtown amenities would be better. I hope I'm wrong.

[vdogg]

9 minutes ago, carolinaboy said:

For me, the location seems questionable. Separated from downtown proper, view of an industrial working river (as opposed to a scenic river view). I just feel like a site in downtown with a *better* water view and access to other downtown amenities would be better. I hope I'm wrong.

The train station negates all that. This works perfectly with Norfolk's long-term plan for the area and creates a tourist destination right at the terminus. Your misgivings seem rooted in the thought that this area will always be industrial. That was never the plan. The reimagining of the Harbor Park waterfront has to start somewhere, why not with this?.

[lammius]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:52 PM, Qdeathstar said:

I think it depends on permitting. 2 years is enough to get the casino open. 

Agreed.  I think 2 years is right for the construction phase.  It's the planning, permitting, etc. that I think could take longer than just a few months, particularly if they're just now "starting the architectural designs and beginning the permitting process."  But maybe they're really further along than I interpret that statement to mean.  

[brikkman]

1 hour ago, lammius said:

Agreed.  I think 2 years is right for the construction phase.  It's the planning, permitting, etc. that I think could take longer than just a few months, particularly if they're just now "starting the architectural designs and beginning the permitting process."  But maybe they're really further along than I interpret that statement to mean.  

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the projects that actually get built come in short order and less than we anticipated? The ones with a long drawn out process seem never to happen?

[baobabs727]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:13 AM, vdogg said:

The train station negates all that. This works perfectly with Norfolk's long-term plan for the area and creates a tourist destination right at the terminus. Your misgivings seem rooted in the thought that this area will always be industrial. That was never the plan. The reimagining of the Harbor Park waterfront has to start somewhere, why not with this?.

Yes, and some people actually like a view of  a working waterfront. Especially people who are not from areas with waterways. It’s true. The Sheraton has never had a problem getting people to check-in with their less than pristine view. Most of waterfront downtown faces a working marina or shipyard of some sort. But I do agree that these views may change over the next few decades. I also agree that the Amtrak train station and light rail negate any drawbacks, and in fact render this particular site golden in terms of major super-regional and  “tourist-oriented” development. The City will eventually extend the Esplanade or Promenade from Dominion Tower to the Harbor Park area, thus finally connecting downtown proper to that area by facilitating pedestrian and bicycle traffic between the two. 

[vdogg]

Portsmouth's Casino developers have released new renderings and announced construction general contractors. The Pamunkey have done none of this. I would really like an update as to progress, particularly new renderings. Portsmouth seems on track to break ground this spring, but Norfolk not so much. They need to get the ball rolling.