Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)

[baobabs727]

I’ve always believed that good design appeals to your brain while truly great  design hits you squarely in the gut. You just know it when you see it. Sadly, I feel nothing when I look at this. Nothing. Especially with the fifth render. 

[Icetera]

22 hours ago, Arctic_Tern said:

There's a 5th image on the allinnorfolk site that hasn't been posted much which shows it a bit better:

So with my eye I'd say that it looks like they would keep a 2 lane road intact (reference image below) with a roundabout towards the water. One thing I am worried about and hope to get some clarification on is it doesn't look like there's much access to the station from the parking garage. Is that garage meant to still be usable by Amtrak patrons or will they have to use the surrounding lots?

It looks like the main drop-off entrance to the complex, and therefore the lobby, is right there so Amtrak riders would have a straight shot.  Hopefully more details will show better pedestrian connectivity.  The corner of the garage across from the station appears to be better lit than the rest of that side so perhaps there is an entrance there for Amtrak parking?

[vdogg]

On 4/25/2021 at 3:39 PM, Arctic_Tern said:

There's a 5th image on the allinnorfolk site that hasn't been posted much which shows it a bit better:

So with my eye I'd say that it looks like they would keep a 2 lane road intact (reference image below) with a roundabout towards the water. One thing I am worried about and hope to get some clarification on is it doesn't look like there's much access to the station from the parking garage. Is that garage meant to still be usable by Amtrak patrons or will they have to use the surrounding lots?

 

I honestly didn't think it was possible for me to be even more underwhelmed by this project than I already was, but this last rendering did it. I've honestly lost all of the excitement that I previously had for this project. I just hope it spurs development in the surrounding area.

 

[metalman]

It literally just looks like more box seats for the baseball stadium. 

[mike4s]

So thinking about it a bit more.  It's a pretty massive structure with the parking garage.  Casinos are usually one sprawling level from the several I've been to.  Maybe a small second story area in a few I've been in but almost always all one level...

Thinking the hotel demand was greatly reduced with the state allowing so many other casinos now.  Not gonna be much of a tourist destination anymore so no need to exceed regular market demand.  Hope the rest of the remaining land is developed with a lot of individual tenants and better street front activity. 

[EJ_LEWIS]

Although I am disappointed in the rendering, I am sometimes surprised at the presence that a 8 story building can have especially on a parcel of land with nothing on it.  The Norfolk courthouse is a prime example. The building looks good at St. Paul's and Main St.   The same maybe true with the hotel portion of the casino.  

[Qdeathstar]

On 4/26/2021 at 2:12 PM, vdogg said:

I honestly didn't think it was possible for me to be even more underwhelmed by this project than I already was, but this last rendering did it. I've honestly lost all of the excitement that I previously had for this project. I just hope it spurs development in the surrounding area

 

 

i mean, it’s bad, but it’s not portsmouth bad.  I guess norfolk doesn’t want tall towers. If they ddi they should at the very least hint to the pamunky tribe that they are considering looking at other options, if they can?

[carolinaboy]

[Norf Native]

So, when does construction start?

[vdogg]

10 minutes ago, Norf Native said:

So, when does construction start?

As soon as they get their license, which was supposed to happen sometime this spring. I'm confused as to how this hasn't gone through the normal design review process though. Hopefully it does.

[carolinaboy]

Not a fan of the use, the site or the design but I have no dog in the fight. I hope if this does get built at least they would use quality materials rather than VE'ing it to death. I'm done bashing this project now. Carry on.

[vdogg]

4 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

Not a fan of the use, the site or the design but I have no dog in the fight. I hope if this does get built at least they would use quality materials rather than VE'ing it to death. I'm done bashing this project now. Carry on.

Oh, I have no doubt this one will actually get built. It's just mediocre enough to cross the finish line. 

[baobabs727]

I’ve been reading about what’s included and staring at these renders for a few days now. Am I the only one who doesn’t see $500 million when looking at this? 

Edited May 3, 2021 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

6 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I’ve been reading about what’s included and staring at these renders for a few days now. Am I the only one who doesn’t see $500 million when looking at this? 

$275 million tops, the bare minimum as stipulated by the contract...

[baobabs727]

I love the first line of this article:    https://www.casino.org/news/500m-norfolk-casino-resort-renderings-released/

"The Pamunkey Indian Tribe has no experience operating any sort of gaming, but it nonetheless was selected by Norfolk as its preferred casino developer last year."

Hmm....

 

[Arctic_Tern]

6 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

I love the first line of this article:    https://www.casino.org/news/500m-norfolk-casino-resort-renderings-released/

"The Pamunkey Indian Tribe has no experience operating any sort of gaming, but it nonetheless was selected by Norfolk as its preferred casino developer last year."

Hmm....

 

It would be pretty surprising if the tribe actually had experience operating gaming, seeing how they were only federally recognized a few years ago.

[baobabs727]

13 minutes ago, Arctic_Tern said:

It would be pretty surprising if the tribe actually had experience operating gaming, seeing how they were only federally recognized a few years ago.

I  think you're missing the point that the author was attempting to make with such a carefully-worded opening statement...i.e... experience counts. Experience matters, and especially so in specialized gambling operations of this magnitude. You are also missing my point, to wit:  I have held and expressed the opinion that Norfolk should have issued an RFP, as did Richmond, thus potentially attracting multiple, high-visibility, experienced, veteran casino operators from all corners of the US...yes, as did Richmond. This contention is even more salient in light of the VA Legislature's recent consent/"O.K." of non-tribal casino operations in VA.  Instead, Norfolk entered into an exclusive partnership--prematurely and absent competitive bids--to which Norfolk is now bound.... 

Edited May 3, 2021 by baobabs727

[Arctic_Tern]

2 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

I  think you're missing the point that the author was attempting to make with such a carefully-worded opening statement...i.e... experience counts. Experience matters, and especially so in specialized gambling operations of this magnitude. You are also missing my point, to wit:  I have held and expressed the opinion that Norfolk should have done an RFP, as did Richmond, thus potentially attracting multiple, high-visibility, experienced, veteran casino operators from all corners of the US...yes, as did Richmond. This contention is even more salient in light of the VA Legislature's recent consent/"O.K." of non-tribal casino operations in VA.  Instead, Norfolk may have entered into an exclusive partnership--absent competitive bids--to which Norfolk is now bound.... 

Oh no believe me, I didn't miss anything. Your ubiquitous posting in this thread is difficult to miss.

[baobabs727]

6 minutes ago, Arctic_Tern said:

Oh no believe me, I didn't miss anything. Your ubiquitous posting in this thread is difficult to miss.

i'd be happy to hear from you relative to your opinion on the relative value and import of business and subject-matter operational experience when it comes to selecting a casino operator.  additionally, would you have favored the issuance of an rfp in this instance? if not, why not? 

Edited May 3, 2021 by baobabs727

[Qdeathstar]

11 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

i'd be happy to hear from you relative to your opinion on the relative value and import of business and subject-matter operational experience when it comes to selecting a casino operator.  additionally, would you have favored the issuance of an rfp in this instance? if not, why not? 

I don’t think it’s that important. You can buy experience.....

[baobabs727]

9 hours ago, Qdeathstar said:

I don’t think it’s that important. You can buy experience.....

Buy experience? Well, no, you cannot buy a "Bally's" or a "Hard Rock" now.  This was a non-competitive process, and it is now a settled matter.

Ironically, you could have bought a ready and willing Cordish Cos., and with it an extensive gaming operations pedigree....

Now certainly you can buy individual talent for day-to-day operations, but he/she will still always be working for, beholden to...and taking direction from... relatively inexperienced, monied corporate ownership @Yarborough/Pawmunkey Inc.  

Edited May 4, 2021 by baobabs727

[Icetera]

23 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

should have issued an RFP, as did Richmond, thus potentially attracting multiple, high-visibility, experienced, veteran casino operators from all corners of the US...yes, as did Richmond.

Except Richmond is still likely to end up with the least visible and least experienced project.  Go us!

[vdogg]

And we have a name...

https://www.13newsnow.com/mobile/article/news/local/mycity/norfolk/pamunkey-indian-tribe-announces-name-for-norfolk-casino-headwaters-resort-casino/291-816c7f2a-a557-46d1-ab7a-92eb191ba037?fbclid=IwAR07Axfk4K7urucVkT-y_kn2bKKcYYETa1usPBehE2AYx_laPhKchknkV-g

 

[baobabs727]

1 hour ago, vdogg said:

And we have a name...

https://www.13newsnow.com/mobile/article/news/local/mycity/norfolk/pamunkey-indian-tribe-announces-name-for-norfolk-casino-headwaters-resort-casino/291-816c7f2a-a557-46d1-ab7a-92eb191ba037?fbclid=IwAR07Axfk4K7urucVkT-y_kn2bKKcYYETa1usPBehE2AYx_laPhKchknkV-g

 

"HeadWaters." Well, it's interesting enough. The Chief states it's about new beginnings.  Sounds like a Headquarters and Tidewater(s) smashup.  I suppose it doesn't really speak to a place/location, but most people will likely refer to it as the "Casino" or the "Norfolk Casino."

[Qdeathstar]

8 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Buy experience? Well, no, you cannot buy a "Bally's" or a "Hard Rock" now.  This was a non-competitive process, and it is now a settled matter.

Ironically, you could have bought a ready and willing Cordish Cos., and with it an extensive gaming operations pedigree....

Now certainly you can buy individual talent for day-to-day operations, but he/she will still always be working for, beholden to...and taking direction from... relatively inexperienced, monied corporate ownership @Yarborough/Pawmunkey Inc.  

 

the management that run the casinos can certainly be bought. It’s fine if the ownership is inexperienced as long as they have good people running the operation. 

HeadWaters isn’t  terrible name....