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Headwaters Resort & Casino (Proposed)


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There's plenty of other potential uses for the land. The Pamunkeys are just the first to throw a legitimate offer in the ring. With the economy booming and SPQ getting going, we were bound to see other proposals for that land. Agreed that activating the riverfront and land in between Waterside and Harbor Park should spur new development, but I'm afraid that a casino could also drive away certain development and businesses that would have viewed the area around Harbor Park as attractive before a casino was there. 

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16 hours ago, Norfolk757Kid said:

There's plenty of other potential uses for the land. The Pamunkeys are just the first to throw a legitimate offer in the ring. With the economy booming and SPQ getting going, we were bound to see other proposals for that land. Agreed that activating the riverfront and land in between Waterside and Harbor Park should spur new development, but I'm afraid that a casino could also drive away certain development and businesses that would have viewed the area around Harbor Park as attractive before a casino was there. 

Well there is that African Museum/Hotel proposal that the city kind of side swiped And I’m not sure what that’s about. Also the city seems very intent on doing something with the property so I like the mindset. I think the momentum is key. Dont forget that Fort Norfolk has yet to be developed. Thats a nice chunk of waterfront property that actually has a better value than the land by Harbor Park and it’s just more land in general. I just don’t want them to mess it up with some mid rise boring developments lol. Let the waterfront have the tall buildings. Kind of like the Chicago skyline or Miami.

18 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

Its worth pointing out that Detroit saw the largest increase in jobs in the whole US.  Not sure if the casino had anything to do with it, but the area around the casino in both Detroit and Windsor Ontario is booming.  The same could happen to Norfolk a plot of land that is doing nothing for the city right now.  

Wow they don’t make as much noise when it’s actually positive. That’s good to hear. Yea and it’s actually perfect for tourists. The light rail, Amtrak and highway are right there. It’s  a win-win. 

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10 hours ago, 23320 said:

As of an hour or two ago, Andria is reporting that they have only 2,500 signatures in hand & that previous counts included forms not yet turned in. Deadline to turn in the notarized forms is 5 PM Thursday. 782E5E38-604F-41BB-8AB8-47ABB39D5F89.jpeg.eb0568c445afdae198cc6076e39065e3.jpeg

So, are people promising to sign and not turning in their sheets, or is it that the volunteers have the sheets and haven't turned them in yet? There's a stark difference between these two scenarios, and one bodes very well for those who want the casino.

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26 minutes ago, vdogg said:

So, are people promising to sign and not turning in their sheets, or is it that the volunteers have the sheets and haven't turned them in yet? There's a stark difference between these two scenarios, and one bodes very well for those who want the casino.

In her other posts she’s pushing to get as many 2,000 new signatures between now and the deadline so it sounds like volunteers promised to collect but were unable to. I would think if they simply hadn’t turned them in that the push would be to get the sheets turned in and not drive for more signatures. 

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So if they don't get the signatures, will they finally put this to rest so we can move forward? Besides, the "All In for Norfolk Casino" group has nearly 3x as many Facebook followers, nearly 1,500 compared to 566 for the anti-casino group.

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As of an hour ago, they have 3,680 signatures, a little more than 300 short. However, I have a problem with this...

https://www.facebook.com/NoNorfolkCasino/photos/a.119418119458340/141041120629373/?type=3&theater

"Unfortunately, the city had a thumb on the scale of justice in this democratic process when it derailed voter confidence in the petitioners by actively promoting the option to remove one’s signature from the petition. The full force of the city’s marketing and communication outreach worked to stifle the outcome of the petition and to prevent citizens’ voices from being heard with information disseminated through a city-issued press release, a citywide civic league email, the city website and its social media channels."

I don't know what exactly happened behind the scenes, but I was under the impression people voluntarily wanted their names removed. I'm sure some were "influenced" to do so, but I don't think they were bullied as much as this group implies. According to one article, the mayor told the city to take down the info about removing your name. I know they're disappointed, but I'm not a fan of the sore loser approach they're taking when they haven't exactly been transparent or objective in their efforts either. I respect using your voice and I'm not going to celebrate their falling short, but a lot of their petition was grandstanding and NIMBY behavior.

Edited by BFG
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On 10/21/2019 at 9:59 AM, Young75 said:

People drive hours just to get the experience I think it will. This will be the first casino in Virginia.The city actually comes alive more now so the casino will add to the experience of being here. Not only Norfolk but the whole area. One casino isn’t gonna wave a magical wand solve everything. Cleveland and Detroit have economies different from Norfolk/HR. I can see the comparison but the rust belt cities are in a whole different circumstance and the state politics are very different. This area actually has a mild climate and a beach. The experience is just different IMO.

A CITY that is a suburb that is rural?? Is that the impression that this area gives? :tw_joy:Chesapeake? I guess yea but not Norfolk tho. Honestly Norfolk, Portsmouth, Newport News and Hampton are actually legit cities. Virginia Beach, Chesapeake and Suffolk are more like suburbs so you can still get the best of “all 3 worlds” lol Norfolk is only 54 sq miles let it be urban please.

People are excited about it.  That effort to force a referendum failed, so it is what it is.

I agree that Norfolk, Portsmouth, Newport News, and Hampton are legit cities.  People always want to compare Norfolk to Richmond and state that Richmond is more of a city than Norfolk.  I can see the arguments both ways.  I think that Norfolk is urban for this region, but maybe not so much for other regions, and definitely not by West Coast or East Coast standards.  But I've been in plenty of Midwestern cities with density similar or less than Norfolk, and it is not a deal breaker for me.  

You're right about Midwestern cities with casinos and how those economies are different.  For one Cleveland and Detroit aren't defined by tourism.  For another they're larger cities.  Fair enough.  

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Casino update from September:

VII. Guest Speaker – Ward 2 Councilwoman Courtney DoyleAlso assisting with this discussion were Jared Chalk, Executive Director of Norfolk’s Economic Development Authority, and Va. House of Delegates member Jerrauld “Jay Jones.  An update on the casino and hotel plan as presented to City Council on Sept. 10, 2019 was discussed. The presentation made to City Council can be found at Norfolk.gov/resortupdate.   Key points from the discussion:
a. The Pamunkey Tribe is the only federally recognized tribe capable of hosting a casino in Virginia.  They are considering Norfolk or Richmond. 
b. The Harbor Park site being considered for the casino and hotel will need flood mitigation which the tribe has agreed to build.  Additionally, access to the pedestrian walkway and the Elizabeth River Trail will be maintained. 
c. Amtrak has been part of the discussion; 103 parking spaces for Amtrak riders will remain.
d. If the Pamunkey tribe buys the 13.25 acres, the city will receive $9.9 million.
e. Under both the tribal and commercial scenarios, the Tribe will be responsible for infrastructure upgrades, including flood mitigation, which will be determined by an environmental study to be conducted next year.
f. Under the terms of the draft deal and if the tribal casino scenario is selected, the city will receive $125,000 per year until the casino opens. After opening, the city will receive 4% of NET gaming revenues with a guaranteed minimum of $3 million per year. The City will not receive any money for non-gaming activities.
g. Under the terms of the draft deal and if the commercial casino scenario is selected, the City will receive taxes that have yet to be approved by the General Assembly.  The General Assembly will release a Joint Legislative Audit & Review Committee (JLARC) report on gaming in Virginia in November 2019 with discussion and action planned for the 2020 legislative session. 
h. The City Council will be voting on the project at their Sept 24, 2019 meeting.  Any resident can sign up to speak; speakers are limited to 3 minutes.  Courtney encouraged those in attendance to attend the meeting and make their views known.
i. Questions from the audience:
i. Although a $700 million investment has been discussed, what is the minimum size of the project?  Answer:  750 slots, 25 gaming tables, and 150 hotel rooms with an estimated payout under the tribal scenario of $5.1 million.
ii. Under the tribal scenario, the land would belong to a sovereign nation. What happens if the project fails and the tribe walks away from their investment?   Answer:  If the casino is closed for more than 60 days, the city can lease the land back for $1 per year for a maximum of 25 years.
iii. If the tribal scenario is selected how will revenues be audited?  Under either scenario, tax filings will be public.  The Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988 requires the filing of financial documents.
iiii. What about the negative aspects of the casino including the social costs?  Answer:  The Economic Development Authority has modeled those costs and included them in the plans.
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Here we go again. They're trying another petition.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-anti-casino-filing-20191029-p3hofmluzbce7ptqg3krx5ukou-story.html

Here’s how it works: the committee will have 120 days — from the date of the first signature — to collect 1,250 signatures and turn them into the city clerk to create the formal proposal.

Then the City Council — the same body that passed the ordinance the new one would seek to repeal — would vote on it, following a public hearing. If the council votes it down or does not act on it within 30 days, the petitioners could again seek to force a referendum by picking up 4,000 signatures.

..........

“I continue to feel we don’t have enough questions answered about this specific deal,” McClellan said Tuesday. “This is more about the process and the desire to have more civic engagement."

 

How are you on the council and don't have enough answers? Let it go already.

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Is there anything stopping city from moving forward? Someone posted here after it was passed that the city planned to close on the sale before the last petition was due - any idea when we should expect it to close?

It seems like they’d be able to perpetually request petitions with their current approach. At what point does a judge or the powers that be say “No, you’ve tried and failed. Time to move on.”? It’s not like the city vote is even the final say - the casino still needs federal and state approval. Furthermore, if they initially open commercially, then it will need legislative approval & a referendum locally anyways. They say the process is moving too fast but final approval (local referendum) is over a year away. 

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9 hours ago, 23320 said:

Is there anything stopping city from moving forward? Someone posted here after it was passed that the city planned to close on the sale before the last petition was due - any idea when we should expect it to close?

It seems like they’d be able to perpetually request petitions with their current approach. At what point does a judge or the powers that be say “No, you’ve tried and failed. Time to move on.”? It’s not like the city vote is even the final say - the casino still needs federal and state approval. Furthermore, if they initially open commercially, then it will need legislative approval & a referendum locally anyways. They say the process is moving too fast but final approval (local referendum) is over a year away. 

 The only way to stop city from moving forward at this point is for a judge to issue an injunction, which is highly unlikely. Once the land sale is done, even if the petition is successful, it’ll be very hard legally to reverse that process if not impossible. 

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If there isnt enough questions answered, shouldn't somone be asking those questions, rather than conplaining, and filling pointlessly redundant petitions.?Does anyone honestly think that city council will reconsider there vote for a small handful of signatures, in a city of many thousands of people?

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