Lake House - Ivanhoe Village

[codypet]

13 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Remember when Fairchild was on the city’s landmark list?

http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/02/Orlando-Local-Landmarks-Narratives1.pdf

Who care about one of the city’s icons, when we can pave paradise and build concrete to the sky, not to mention what was supposed to become Orlando’s answer to Little Five Points.

Once upon a time, there was a vision. Now, there is just boredom.

Build We Must! Or as the Seven Dwarfs would sing , “we don’t know what we (build) ‘em for, we just (build, build, builda build build).
 

Orlando Rescue Mission and the Porter Paints sign too.... eeek

[spenser1058]

44 minutes ago, codypet said:

Orlando Rescue Mission and the Porter Paints sign too.... eeek

The Porter Paints sign is still there, supposedly; they just covered it up. The design of the building was left intact  which is the important thing.

As for OUR Mission’s sign, it’s hard to remember a time when it wasn’t a mess. They mentioned taking it over to West Colonial and fixing it at one point -whether that’s doable I don’t know. It really was extraneous to the original structure,though.

Keeping the Fairchild sign was part of the move to keep exteriors in the Glenda days and trying to hold out for more (it’s amazing the venue that could have been created from that deco chapel).

It’s funny that Atlanta has always been the poster child in the South  for tearing things down. I even have a book entitled ‘Whatever Happened To Atlanta?”, but they ain’t got nothing on Bulldozer Buddy.

Edited June 10, 2021 by spenser1058

[popsiclebrandon]

They have finally started to drop rents here. Doing 6-8 weeks free plus cable/internet included.

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Lake House is arguably the best scaled and contextual development in the “downtown” area in recent years. Berating this project is just, well, odd.

Can we have a other 20 of these, please?

Well, I remember when the 30+ story Orlando Palace project was supposed to replace the Orlando COC adjacent to the then-Radisson just down the street. Best scaled design?  Probably not, because it was huge.  But the location demanded greater height. 

Look at everything I posted about Lakehouse.  Yes, this thing lights up nice at night.  Yes, I acknowledge the NIMBY's being a roadblock.   Yes, it scales nicely within the neighborhood.  But if we used that scale and context standard in Florida, then there would be no such thing as a 20+ story residential tower on the beach anywhere because it would be too drastic a departure from existing, older 2-4 story Travelodge-looking motels dotting the A1A streetscape.  There's gotta be a break at some point.

It does look nice- but my comments are about wasting prime waterfront developable real estate in a city that barely has any.

There's two ways to look at this:  First: Wow, Orlando has a condo/apartment building on Lake Ivanhoe- that shows great maturity in that there is desirable waterfront property in Orlando, and there is a demand for high density waterfront property.  Now here's the other way to look at this: Um, 8 stories was the best they could do?

That is simply my point.  Beyond that, it's a good project.

[jack]

21 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The doctors who built it (in the ‘70’s) built it on the site of the Orthopedic Clinic (they moved to WP and it later was renamed Jewett Clinic - sound familiar).

At the time the doctors were incredibly well regarded in town and the neighborhood still was in Carl’s “we can’t do nuthin’ phase”. So there was very little pushback.

Most people did think they had gotten out over their skis and it didn’t sell well. Like most downtown condos built back then, it ended up either in receivership or bankruptcy or what ever. Many years later, it became somewhat more popular with refurbs.

Pretty much every condo has gone through that process in downtown Orlando. The only one I am not so sure about is 530 E Central. The Sancutuary and Solaire missed the recession but the VUE, Paramount and Star Tower were not so lucky. 

[spenser1058]

It’s just funny that when they have an open shot to build anything their heart desires they build five story dreck.

After all, no one forced them to build tiny buildings along Orange Ave did they? Jack insists that was all they could build after the recession. A mayor who does something beside collecting his six figure check would have proposed holding off for a bit (that’s the type of thing Mayor Bill used his bully pulpit for quite successfully- he got them to stand down in Parramore for several years in order to promote density in the core. 

Now, it wasn’t as though the rest of Orlando wasn’t offering opportunities for builders after the recession. Once Harry Potter was announced, the tourism district exploded. There was plenty to do down there while a vision for downtown was put in place.

For some reason, developers keep intruding into areas that have value to a community ( Eola Heights anyone?) when they could build as high or low as they wanted next to I4.

The construction-industrial complex in this town just can’t stand to hear no. They’re fortunate, because the mayor the city has will never say no to them
 

[jack]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s just funny that when they have an open shot to build anything their heart desires they build five story dreck.

After all, no one forced them to build tiny buildings along Orange Ave did they? Jack insists that was all they could build after the recession. A mayor who does something beside collecting his six figure check would have proposed holding off for a bit (that’s the type of thing Mayor Bill used his bully pulpit for quite successfully- he got them to stand down in Parramore for several years in order to promote density in the core. 

Now, it wasn’t as though the rest of Orlando wasn’t offering opportunities for builders after the recession. Once Harry Potter was announced, the tourism district exploded. There was plenty to do down there while a vision for downtown was put in place.

For some reason, developers keep intruding into areas that have value to a community ( Eola Heights anyone?) when they could build as high or low as they wanted next to I4.

The construction-industrial complex in this town just can’t stand to hear no. They’re fortunate, because the mayor the city has will never say no to them
 

The city was desperate for development and starved for tax revenue. I don't blame. Florida only works when we build. If not, taxes will have to go up to support municipal services. Also, the administration was desperate to get more people living downtown. 

And Crescent Central Station was the only project that could have gone higher and would have made sense to do so. 

You are going to have to tell me/us where developers are intruding into Eola heights. I know in the 80's, they wanted to tear it all down and up zone but that was 30 years ago. 

17 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Well, I remember when the 30+ story Orlando Palace project was supposed to replace the Orlando COC adjacent to the then-Radisson just down the street. Best scaled design?  Probably not, because it was huge.  But the location demanded greater height. 

Look at everything I posted about Lakehouse.  Yes, this thing lights up nice at night.  Yes, I acknowledge the NIMBY's being a roadblock.   Yes, it scales nicely within the neighborhood.  But if we used that scale and context standard in Florida, then there would be no such thing as a 20+ story residential tower on the beach anywhere because it would be too drastic a departure from existing, older 2-4 story Travelodge-looking motels dotting the A1A streetscape.  There's gotta be a break at some point.

It does look nice- but my comments are about wasting prime waterfront developable real estate in a city that barely has any.

There's two ways to look at this:  First: Wow, Orlando has a condo/apartment building on Lake Ivanhoe- that shows great maturity in that there is desirable waterfront property in Orlando, and there is a demand for high density waterfront property.  Now here's the other way to look at this: Um, 8 stories was the best they could do?

That is simply my point.  Beyond that, it's a good project.

I'd gladly build you a high-rise if we can find enough people to pay the rents to support it. With cost increases, you are going to need more than what Radius or Modern is charging to make it work. 

[dcluley98]

Crescent Central Station  is an abomination.  Worst project ever for DTO.  The impact of that next to our main/central transportation hub will reverberate for decades to come. 

[jrs2]

5 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Crescent Central Station  is an abomination.  Worst project ever for DTO.  The impact of that next to our main/central transportation hub will reverberate for decades to come. 

...and as a result they had the audacity and platform to challenge the adjacent Society project's scale

12 minutes ago, jack said:

The city was desperate for development and starved for tax revenue. I don't blame. Florida only works when we build. If not, taxes will have to go up to support municipal services. Also, the administration was desperate to get more people living downtown. 

And Crescent Central Station was the only project that could have gone higher and would have made sense to do so. 

You are going to have to tell me/us where developers are intruding into Eola heights. I know in the 80's, they wanted to tear it all down and up zone but that was 30 years ago. 

I'd gladly build you a high-rise if we can find enough people to pay the rents to support it. With cost increases, you are going to need more than what Radius or Modern is charging to make it work. 

You're right and I know you're right.  There's just not enough $$$ in Orlando to support taller buildings then...

[spenser1058]

But yet they’re perfectly happy to build tall and pave over the history of the city. That’s a nonsequitur. I could care less about height (DC is filled with neighborhoods with short buildings like DuPont Circle and they’re wonderful). I just know Eola Heights is more worth preserving than any typical building. Build whatever you want away from areas that should be preserved, please.

[spenser1058]

What is humorous is that downtown Orlando is following rapidly in the footsteps of Daytona. Isn’t it interesting one has a mayor who has stayed too long while Daytona had a city manager who did. 

[jrs2]

32 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

But yet they’re perfectly happy to build tall and pave over the history of the city. That’s a nonsequitur. I could care less about height (DC is filled with neighborhoods with short buildings like DuPont Circle and they’re wonderful). I just know Eola Heights is more worth preserving than any typical building. Build whatever you want away from areas that should be preserved, please.

I totally agree about DC.  You are correct about height or lack of.

I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer on Lakehouse.  It really is a good project and adds alot of visual interest to Ivanhoe with it's lighting.  It also reinforces that Lake Ivanhoe is a desirable locale for downtown-like development.  It adds a dynamic to and extends in a way that type of development north (Lakehouse along with The Yard) to the AdventHealth megaplex.

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I totally agree about DC.  You are correct about height or lack of.

I didn't want to be a Debbie Downer on Lakehouse.  It really is a good project and adds alot of visual interest to Ivanhoe with it's lighting.  It also reinforces that Lake Ivanhoe is a desirable locale for downtown-like development.  It adds a dynamic to and extends in a way that type of development north (Lakehouse along with The Yard) to the AdventHealth megaplex.

I’d love Lake House somewhere else.

[ChiDev]

..

11 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I also personally think this was one of the more creative and better developments in Orlando in the time I have lived here. 

It is crazy about how people can simultaneously complain about high rents and affordability and lack of density/height and infill and at the same time have stupid zoning and NIMBYs that can change the conditions and requirements for GF retail that may never get filled on every street instead of clustered in high density areas where it would make more sense. 

There must be a bit more attention paid to urban planning in America, and in Orlando as well to address the reality of situations. 

Well said,

anyone complaining about lakehouse has little concept of the actual engine that drives development, and wants to direct the course of building creation through zoning restrictions.  That path winds up with less buildings built, and puts the city a lot farther away from having the type of architecture cited in this thread as "desire-able".

Anyone who cannot see that isn't worth acknowledging.

Edited June 10, 2021 by ChiDev

[jrs2]

22 minutes ago, ChiDev said:

..

Well said,

anyone complaining about lakehouse has little concept of the actual engine that drives development, and wants to direct the course of building creation through zoning restrictions.  That path winds up with less buildings built, and puts the city a lot farther away from having the type of architecture cited in this thread as "desire-able".

Anyone who cannot see that isn't worth acknowledging.

I don't think anyone here ever complained that they don't or "cannot see that" about Lakehouse, or about the economic engine that drives development. 

You state "Well said" to Dcluley's post, but there's contradictions.  You are against zoning restrictions that might otherwise hinder development, as is Dcluley.  But Dcluley is also for better "urban planning."  Sounds contradictory because that requires zoning restrictions and changes.  

Based on your post, you are stating that Lakehouse is, for the most part, "filler," built with little restrictions, to get the density up to a point so that future projects have the type of architecture that is more "desire-able." I agree.

I also acknowledged that the $$$ in Orlando isn't there yet ala higher rents from taller buildings.  We've beaten that dead horse on these boards.   When the $$$ is not there, you get what you can usually- that is Lakehouse, in this case.

Spenser made two comments of note- don't tear down historic structures, and, when the sky is the limit, don't build a five story "dreck."  He's 100% right.  To Dcluley's point  about Crescent Central in a prior post, those two comments are point for point spot on.   And the Crescent Central project result could have been thwarted with better zoning for greater density.  Granted they didn't have to deal with NIMBY's there like Lakehouse did, but now Crescent Central is the NIMBY to Society's original plans.

Then, Dcluley states that Lakehouse is one of the more "creative" developments in Orlando since he's been here;  a U-shaped 8 story apartment building with a parking deck on the back side.  How is that creative at all, compared to Plaza, 55W, Aspire, CSP, Radius, Paramount, Citi Tower, Sanctuary, Modera, 101 Eola, 420 Artisan, 520 Church, etc.?  Is Lakehouse mixed use?  Zoning aside, is there a restaurant at the base? Greek Corner is right next door as is the Orange Ave retail corridor.  Is it even a unique design? Well, that u-shaped style is all the rage anywhere there is water, in the US, even in Daytona- and from buildings built back in the 1950's and 1960's mind you.  Even on Lake Lucerne.  So how is it at all creative in 2021?  You agree with his post.

All that aside, if you are instead judging Lakehouse from the eyes of the developer, i.e., the financials, and all the boxes check out, then it is a success.  It got built, and filled, and has pretty LED light strips on it to add to the evening ambiance of the area.   

[prahaboheme]

There’s a restaurant at the base - the Pinery. I think it opens this month.

[jrs2]

30 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

There’s a restaurant at the base - the Pinery. I think it opens this month.

I stand corrected on that point and am very happy to hear that. Ty

[dcluley98]

On 6/10/2021 at 3:41 PM, jrs2 said:

Then, Dcluley states that Lakehouse is one of the more "creative" developments in Orlando since he's been here;  a U-shaped 8 story apartment building with a parking deck on the back side.  How is that creative at all, compared to Plaza, 55W, Aspire, CSP, Radius, Paramount, Citi Tower, Sanctuary, Modera, 101 Eola, 420 Artisan, 520 Church, etc.?  Is Lakehouse mixed use?  Zoning aside, is there a restaurant at the base? Greek Corner is right next door as is the Orange Ave retail corridor.  Is it even a unique design? Well, that u-shaped style is all the rage anywhere there is water, in the US, even in Daytona- and from buildings built back in the 1950's and 1960's mind you.  Even on Lake Lucerne.  So how is it at all creative in 2021?  You agree with his post.

It is creative in several ways. 

1: It's one of the only projects actually fronting a Lake as well as a major thoroughfare since I have lived here. 

2: The developers made it work for luxury and some density in an area that is designed to mix some of the Ivanhoe Village charm with greater critical mass density to activate the corridor around Orange/Virginia. 

3: The structural design was a concrete modular and tilt-panel system to provide more durable materials and better design for residential as well as speed of construction and minimizing cost. This is a very innovative design/system from those standpoints. It is much better/higher quality than "stick-built" beige box crap and much cheaper than other systems such as CIP, Masonry or SS with overlay. 

4: The Architectural design, while a matter of taste, is in my opinion well done. The shape of the building itself may not be "original" but the details they gave it are distinct. It isn't a bunch of rectangles with a visor. They took some limitations on the building and made it work, with continuing the Art Deco vibe and some flourishes that do not look like the typical "beige or blue" boxes dreck we usually see. If you notice, they actually incorporated a portion of the Fairchild Chapel and sign within the details of the building. The Art Deco flair on the top center portion is a direct callback to the chapel design and the blue colors are as well in the architectural elements and signage. The blue lighting on the fins are interesting and good looking to me as well as being color homage.  The building was actually designed to be slightly assymetrical to give it more character and better views of the lake and downtown, with balconies positioned well to provide interesting details as well as great vantage points. They designed these balconies as well as the elevated pool deck and landscaping to provide some symbiosis with the lake and park across the street as well as the adjacent neighborhood. 

5: As pointed out, it is mixed use, with a restaurant on the GF to tie in with the neighborhood restaurants/bars next door and nearby. The restaurant is the Pinery, which is an homage to the historical use of the area with a pine-apple farm. 

6: The finishes of this are actually quite good and are better than we have seen lately in some of the cheaper "market-rate" developments. They have some nice finishes inside including things like quartz counter-tops and wood flooring, and floor to ceiling glass windows offering panoramic views and architecural glass balcony railings and panel systems. 

7: Just the fact that the developer could make it work financially given the myriad limitations, zoning, neighborhood pushback, and other challenges is a creative feat in itself. This is one of the better developments we have seen recently, and it was done by "thinking outside of the (beige) box" and approaching the project with solutions. 

I think one of the only things I don't like is the removal of the old Chapel building, but C'est La Vie.  Time passes, things change and life goes on. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by dcluley98

[prahaboheme]

11 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

It is creative in several ways. 

1: It's one of the only projects actually fronting a Lake as well as a major thoroughfare since I have lived here. 

2: The developers made it work for luxury and some density in an area that is designed to mix some of the Ivanhoe Village charm with greater critical mass density to activate the corridor around Orange/Virginia. 

3: The structural design was a concrete modular and tilt-panel system to provide more durable materials and better design for residential as well as speed of construction and minimizing cost. This is a very innovative design/system from those standpoints. It is much better/higher quality than "stick-built" beige box crap and much cheaper than other systems such as CIP, Masonry or SS with overlay. 

4: The Architectural design, while a matter of taste, is in my opinion well done. The shape of the building itself may not be "original" but the details they gave it are distinct. It isn't a bunch of rectangles with a visor. They took some limitations on the building and made it work, with continuing the Art Deco vibe and some flourishes that do not look like the typical "beige or blue" boxes dreck we usually see. If you notice, they actually incorporated a portion of the Fairchild Chapel and sign within the details of the building. The Art Deco flair on the top center portion is a direct callback to the chapel design and the blue colors are as well in the architectural elements and signage. The blue lighting on the fins are interesting and good looking to me as well as being color homage.  The building was actually design to be slightly assymetrical to give it more character and better views of the lake and downtown, with balconies positions well to provide interesting details as well as great vantage points. They designed these balconies as well as the elevated pool deck and landscaping to provide some symbiosis with the lake and park across the street as well as the adjacent neighborhood. 

5: As pointed out, it is mixed use, with a restaurant on the GF to tie in with the neighborhood restaurants/bars next door and nearby. The restaurant is the Pinery, which is an homage from the historical use of the area with a pine-apple farm. 

6: The finishes of this are actually quite good and are better than we have seen lately in some of the cheaper "market-rate" developments. They have some nice finishes inside including things like quartz counter-tops and wood flooring, and floor to ceiling glass windows offering panoramic views and architecural glass balcony railings and panel systems. 

7: Just the fact that the developer could make it work financially given the myriad limitations, zoning, neighborhood pushback, and other challenges is a creative feat in itself. This is one of the better developments we have seen recently, and it was done by "thinking outside of the (beige) box" and approaching the project with solutions. 

I think one of the only things I don't like is the removal of the old Chapel building, but C'est La Vie.  Time passes, things change and life goes on. 

Stop with this common sense. 

[AmIReal]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Spenser made two comments of note- don't tear down historic structures, and, when the sky is the limit, don't build a five story "dreck."

Do either of these comments apply to Lake House?

Just to be clear, no historic structure was torn down to build this development.

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

Do either of these comments apply to Lake House?

Just to be clear, no historic structure was torn down to build this development.

While not technically "historic", the Fairchild Chapel was an iconic and architecturally significant structure in a high visibility location that had become identifiable with DTO and would have been worth saving if there had been any way to incorporate it into the new design, which is I suppose asking a lot.  

It's just sad to see it go. 

[popsiclebrandon]

Pinery is all built out and stocked up. Its simultaneously very  nice and very disappointing and I can't figure out exactly why. I think its the mish mash of tones and textures. There is 1 too many flooring and 1 too many color I think.

 

[sethM]

@popsiclebrandonwhen are they opening? I’m ready to come give it a shot. 
 

I’d move to LH in a heartbeat if the rent was a bit lower, but then again the high rent may improve the quality of the residents. 

[spenser1058]

21 minutes ago, sethM said:

@popsiclebrandonwhen are they opening? I’m ready to come give it a shot. 
 

I’d move to LH in a heartbeat if the rent was a bit lower, but then again the high rent may improve the quality of the residents. 

“I wouldn’t live anyplace that would have me as a resident!”

[AmIReal]

8 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Pinery is all built out and stocked up. Its simultaneously very  nice and very disappointing and I can't figure out exactly why. I think its the mish mash of tones and textures. There is 1 too many flooring and 1 too many color I think.

 

Based on the video clip on FB it is pretty stunning a several steps above everything else (decor wise) in the area. Otoh, I see your point- I count at least 4 flooring types and that does seem odd. I see the chef comes from Santiago's Bodega which doesn't generally impress me. I hope what she pulls off is better than them.

https://www.facebook.com/thepineryorlando/posts/277455520741670