Oracle, 60 acres at River North, 1,200,000 sq. ft. of space, $1.2B Investment, 8,500 jobs

[Dale]

Not popular here, understandably, but I’m almost positive pulling back on incentives will play well with the populous.

[AronG]

Isn't the phrasing kind of suspect though? Like, obviously Cooper's doing everything he can right now to generate media coverage with the theme that he's cutting, slashing, we're bankrupt, etc. But if you dig into a lot of it, it's almost all cosmetic or rhetorical. For example, this statement could just as easily mean that they're negotiating with Oracle with an expectation to announce in July, right? 6 months is not that long.

[LA_TN]

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

They can go to Williamson, Rutherford, Wilson or Sumner. 

I can very easily see Oracle going to Cool Springs 

[DeemonBruhn]

Not popular here, understandably, but I’m almost positive pulling back on incentives will play well with the populous.

It sure will. However, logic doesn’t stand in the way of politics. Tax incentives only happen in things like this for jobs or development that doesn’t currently exist in the city. If we give zero incentives, but get passed over for new investment because of that there is no way that is a net win.

I know this is tantamount to preaching to the choir.

[titanhog]

I'm not a huge fan of Cooper, but the fact that the city's revenues have grown 32% since 2013...but our expenses went up 38%...I'm hopeful they'll get things back in line and balance the budget...THEN start looking to see if taxes need to be raised somewhere.  It appears there's been so much mismanagement and lack of oversight that maybe someone will finally get it all under control.  With our growth, surely there's a way to be healthier financially.

 

[downtownresident]

1 minute ago, titanhog said:

I'm not a huge fan of Cooper, but the fact that the city's revenues have grown 32% since 2013...but our expenses went up 38%...I'm hopeful they'll get things back in line and balance the budget...THEN start looking to see if taxes need to be raised somewhere.  It appears there's been so much mismanagement and lack of oversight that maybe someone will finally get it all under control.  With our growth, surely there's a way to be healthier financially.

 

Right, the stories of the cost overruns for the sheriffs headquarters, the fairgrounds buildings, and First Horizon Park don’t paint a pretty picture for how things are being planned when the city does something. There has to be a better process that the city can implement to get things under control before we look at raising taxes to cover the shortfall. 

[markhollin]

Mayor Cooper and Governor Lee were in California earlier this week to continue negotiations with Oracle execs about a possible huge hub in Nashville.

The Business Journal has reported that an Oracle hub could involve 1,000 jobs initially, and potentially thousands more in future phases of expansion. According to multiple real estate sources, Oracle has been hunting for at least 500,000 square feet of office space, with the potential to grow to as much as twice that size. Sources said Oracle prefers to own and develop its office buildings, instead of leasing from another developer.

Sources have identified the 105 acre River North development site as Oracle's preferred landing spot.

Multiple sources with knowledge of the Oracle negotiations said one unresolved factor is property amid River North at 1433 Cowan Court, where Irving Materials Inc. operates a concrete facility. IMI owns 4.6 acres of land, according to Metro records, and sources said talks are ongoing about the potential of relocating the facility.

Another matter is the status of $20 million of funding Metro Council approved in 2018 for infrastructure work in and around the River North property, including upgrades to the intersection of Cowan Street and Jefferson Street.

Metro and Monroe Investment Partners have not finalized an agreement on how that money would be spent. Such an agreement would require Metro Council approval. According to a source, that participation agreement is expected to appear at Metro Council in the coming weeks.

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/01/24/exclusive-mayor-cooper-gov-lee-met-with-oracle.html?ana=fbk

[MLBrumby]

That'd be a bigger GET than Microsoft, whether or not they were using Nashville as a foil against another city. 

[nashvylle]

Could this article be about Oracle? Let's pray it's alive and still happens. 

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/24/nashville-blocks-emails-mayor-coopers-development-talks/4827549002/

[MLBrumby]

Could be... or could be The Tennessean is attempting to follow up on the rumors that it got away. Guess Mayor Cooper's definition of "transparency" applies only in certain circumstances. 

[satalac]

He's as transparent as a one way mirror. 

[KJHburg]

so are you saying this does not appear to be happening in Nashville I saw that in another thread.  what are the TN state laws of disclosure if the file is closed so to speak?  

[JoeyX]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

so are you saying this does not appear to be happening in Nashville I saw that in another thread.  what are the TN state laws of disclosure if the file is closed so to speak?  

 

Naaaaww this is happening along with several others. It's why Nashville is leading the country in office development.

[downtownresident]

2 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

I hope you all are ready for the onslaught of people moving from larger cities affected by the rioting. It seems the number one topic among my fellow attorneys in other cities is "where can we move?"  They're serious. With that in mind, apparently the developers who do deep market research are aware that there will be a steady stream of people in the foreseeable future. Here's a snippet from a NBJ article vis-a-vis Nashville's apartment development. I've seen this before in my hometown in the 1980s. Get ready, because it's not going to stop. And it's going to come at the cost to other cites. Also, I'm hearing that Oracle is back on the front burner... but in a suburban area. Clearly, they don't want to deal with John Cooper.  Are you listening Williamson, Rutherford, Sumner, Wilson Counties?  You might be surprised at the county the RUMORS say they're looking at. 

As of June, builders were creating 13,500 apartments across the Greater Nashville region, according to a CoStar Group analysis. That volume is neck-and-neck, or even ahead of, peak construction activity seen in 2016 and 2017.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/07/22/hoar-construction-aspire-gulch-apartments.html

I forgot to add, my guess as to the surprise County/location is the Medical Center Pkwy/Gateway/The Avenue section of Murfreesboro. There’s a ton of land available, it would give Oracle an opportunity to partner with MTSU, and be Nashville-adjacent. 
 

Edit: If Oracle lands in Murfreesboro instead of Davidson county it’s 100% on Cooper. If this happens, I’m glad the metro area will have landed a tech giant, but Cooper should be ashamed that he fumbled the opportunity to transform the Cowan corridor. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by downtownresident

[nashvylle]

I’d like Oracle to be 1 foot outside Davidson County, if it’s not in Davidson County. 

[titanhog]

9 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

I hope you all are ready for the onslaught of people moving from larger cities affected by the rioting. It seems the number one topic among my fellow attorneys in other cities is "where can we move?"  They're serious. With that in mind, apparently the developers who do deep market research are aware that there will be a steady stream of people in the foreseeable future. Here's a snippet from a NBJ article vis-a-vis Nashville's apartment development. I've seen this before in my hometown in the 1980s. Get ready, because it's not going to stop. And it's going to come at the cost to other cites. Also, I'm hearing that Oracle is back on the front burner... but in a suburban area. Clearly, they don't want to deal with John Cooper.  Are you listening Williamson, Rutherford, Sumner, Wilson Counties?  You might be surprised at the county the RUMORS say they're looking at. 

As of June, builders were creating 13,500 apartments across the Greater Nashville region, according to a CoStar Group analysis. That volume is neck-and-neck, or even ahead of, peak construction activity seen in 2016 and 2017.

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2020/07/22/hoar-construction-aspire-gulch-apartments.html

So which county is Oracle rumored to be looking?

[MidTenn1]

Possibly Montgomery County? Clarksville was once called one of three cities vying to become the next Silicon Valley according to a Wall Street Journal article (behind the paywall). Yes, hyperbole to the max, but they did open a $600,000,000 Google Data center last year. 

A 'get' like that would transform the City and likely Austin Peay. If a county in the region is the Oracle target, Clarksville makes as much sense as the others.

[PaulChinetti]

I'm from Clarksville, Oracle is not going to attract young talent by moving their headquarters to Clarksville, TN. 

Young, single talent fresh out of college, that all these companies are trying to attract don't want to move to Clarksville or Rutherford County, they want to move to the city and be able to spend their big new salaries going out to all the new bars and restaurants.

Hell I'm no where near young anymore, have a family and would not even consider moving farther than 20 minutes away from a big city.  

[MLBrumby]

6 hours ago, titanhog said:

So which county is Oracle rumored to be looking?

The rumor (from 2 unrelated people) is western Wilson County. I've been trying to dig into this deeper through some people I know in the area up there but nothing since last week. One of the sources is a real estate attorney I know professionally, not a close personal relationship. He happened to say something like "With Oracle looking in the suburbs now, there's a lot of land churning in west Wilson." It was a Zoom call with several of us, so I squelched my intense interest at that moment. I did text a bit later and all he said was, there are a couple thousand acres near the lake (which one? OHL or PPL?) that are being looked at for rezoning from an entity out of California.  If you guys know anyone in real estate around Mt. Juliet, ask them if there are any large ADJACENT tracts near I-40 and/or I-840 recently. I'd be surprised if any property has actually transferred at this point. Probably just options to buy if anything right now. My money would be on land close to PP Lake. I have no way to know this but I'd center my search around SR 171, south of Providence. I've not heard specifically Rural Hill, but that's the crossroads there. Of course, this could all be a ruse to play against Nashville, or some other city/state. Sorry I don't have more than that, but it's worth a closer look for any of you peeps with better access to WilCo property searches/government records. Who on this forum lives in that area? 

The second source is/are a married couple I met at a party (OK, so I went to a neighborhood "social distance" party for a family moving away last weekend).  They are both from Mt. Juliet. So I asked about the rumor. They nodded knowingly, but the husband said (paraphrase), "I heard that when I was there last Christmas. Although nothing since then, but I haven't been there." I found it interesting that he repeated the 'land near Priest lake and Interstates' notion. He is an executive with one of the trucking firms here, so presumably he has some informal leads on industry. 

Disclaimer:  I feel need to be specific on the sources b/c all I've been able to gauge right now is that they're rumors, and not especially solid ones. So if you guys have an ear to the ground (maybe even nearby in Rutherford), I'd love to hear your feedback. 

[tragenvol]

 

Clarksville is already attracting younger folks without Oracle according to one 2019 study; https://smartasset.com/mortgage/where-millennials-are-moving-2019:

Of course, I didn't see that the article factored in nearby Ft. Campbell.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by tragenvol

[titanhog]

Yeah...I could see Rutherford or Wilson.  Both within minutes of downtown Nashville...with access to either 40, 840, 24, 65.

[satalac]

There are some pretty big empty tracks of land right there at the intersection of 171 and Stewarts Ferry Pike. I'd hate to see traffic if that happens, as 171 through the Providence area is already pretty bad. I could see it possibly working though. Close to interstates and Nashville. I could also see it landing in Murfreesboro with how much it's blown up. 

Edited July 23, 2020 by satalac

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

The rumor (from 2 unrelated people) is western Wilson County. I've been trying to dig into this deeper through some people I know in the area up there but nothing since last week. One of the sources is a real estate attorney I know professionally, not a close personal relationship. He happened to say something like "With Oracle looking in the suburbs now, there's a lot of land churning in west Wilson." It was a Zoom call with several of us, so I squelched my intense interest at that moment. I did text a bit later and all he said was, there are a couple thousand acres near the lake (which one? OHL or PPL?) that are being looked at for rezoning from an entity out of California.  If you guys know anyone in real estate around Mt. Juliet, ask them if there are any large ADJACENT tracts near I-40 and/or I-840 recently. I'd be surprised if any property has actually transferred at this point. Probably just options to buy if anything right now. My money would be on land close to PP Lake. I have no way to know this but I'd center my search around SR 171, south of Providence. I've not heard specifically Rural Hill, but that's the crossroads there. Of course, this could all be a ruse to play against Nashville, or some other city/state. Sorry I don't have more than that, but it's worth a closer look for any of you peeps with better access to WilCo property searches/government records. Who on this forum lives in that area? 

The second source is/are a married couple I met at a party (OK, so I went to a neighborhood "social distance" party for a family moving away last weekend).  They are both from Mt. Juliet. So I asked about the rumor. They nodded knowingly, but the husband said (paraphrase), "I heard that when I was there last Christmas. Although nothing since then, but I haven't been there." I found it interesting that he repeated the 'land near Priest lake and Interstates' notion. He is an executive with one of the trucking firms here, so presumably he has some informal leads on industry. 

Disclaimer:  I feel need to be specific on the sources b/c all I've been able to gauge right now is that they're rumors, and not especially solid ones. So if you guys have an ear to the ground (maybe even nearby in Rutherford), I'd love to hear your feedback. 

I interact some with the Wilson ECD folks and have heard nothing....but that doesn't mean it isn't a possibility as those folks can be really tight-lipped when working on relocation efforts.

[MLBrumby]

As I ponder the veracity/plausibility of this rumor, I think we should also consider that Oracle would open a new office (of what?) in a small way. So maybe a huge land purchase would be a much longer term investment. The vagaries of a world in quarantine have made most companies rethink their growth/survival strategies. So maybe the whole North River complex was something that might have made sense in the former world. Maybe now, it becomes an effort to follow the flight to suburbs and realize also the millennials are beginning to start families. I can't say b/c I've always been in that mode, even before I married. I'd like to experience a core city lifestyle but (as yet) it hasn't been in the cards. I believe I mentioned that we're seeing a surge in demand for houses in our suburban area of Hamilton County. So it makes me wonder if that whole paradigm might be changing. Especially when you look at where many of these tech firms are HQ'ed... very suburban Silicon Valley. 

6 minutes ago, tragenvol said:

I interact some with the Wilson ECD folks and have heard nothing....but that doesn't mean it isn't a possibility as those folks can be really tight-lipped when working on relocation efforts.

That's the sort of info we need. Thanks.

[titanhog]

In the end...I still hope it ends up at River North.  Would be the perfect moment to get that development up and running.