New Arena

[BFG]

This area hates progress. They’ve been talking about building an arena since the mid-90s and yet all talk. It’s gonna be 2050 and we’re still gonna have The Scope and The Ted. 

[vdogg]

5 hours ago, varider said:

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/delegate-says-bill-to-help-finance-norfolk-arena-isnt-ready-for-prime-time/

I am disheartened by the fact that we are effectively competing against Henrico for a new arena, and disappointed by the “leadership” around here. I just can’t understand how the city and this region can be so dysfunctional. 

I’ve never bought that argument. Absolutely no reason why an arena all the way in Henrico should pose a problem for us here. That’s just an excuse. If they want an arena, they’ll move forward. It’s that simple.

[mintscraft56]

On 2/18/2023 at 9:07 AM, varider said:

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/delegate-says-bill-to-help-finance-norfolk-arena-isnt-ready-for-prime-time/

I am disheartened by the fact that we are effectively competing against Henrico for a new arena, and disappointed by the “leadership” around here. I just can’t understand how the city and this region can be so dysfunctional. 

Richmond and anything to do with their area should not directly affect something like a new arena here in Norfolk. Our metro population (all 7 cities) of 1.8 Million  does not need a 100 mile travel to go to an arena. We are too central of an area for this treatment....Absolute BS in this case....

[varider]

At the Planning Commission meeting yesterday, Economic Development gave a little update on Military Circle and MacArthur. They pretty much said that the city has abandoned any idea of an arena, that they have absolutely zero plan for either of the malls, that it will take almost a year just to tear down Military,  and that they want Military to be something like a Summit Pointe in Chesapeake, with a corporation as an anchor,  but have absolutely nobody interested and are just going to make the site ready and wait who knows how long for the "market" to figure out what should go here

The planning commission seemed very relieved that we were done talking about an arena. I just hate that I got excited yet again for something like a state of the art arena at Wellness Circle, when in reality we'd be lucky to see anything built there for several years, if ever. I can imagine the next hype train will be an arena at Greenbrier, which will be studied for years, just to come to some sudden conclusion that an arena is entirely out of the budget and infeasible there too.  It's a wrap. 

[BFG]

I hate it here. 

[carolinaboy]

2 hours ago, varider said:

At the Planning Commission meeting yesterday, Economic Development gave a little update on Military Circle and MacArthur. They pretty much said that the city has abandoned any idea of an arena, that they have absolutely zero plan for either of the malls, that it will take almost a year just to tear down Military,  and that they want Military to be something like a Summit Pointe in Chesapeake, with a corporation as an anchor,  but have absolutely nobody interested and are just going to make the site ready and wait who knows how long for the "market" to figure out what should go here

The planning commission seemed very relieved that we were done talking about an arena. I just hate that I got excited yet again for something like a state of the art arena at Wellness Circle, when in reality we'd be lucky to see anything built there for several years, if ever. I can imagine the next hype train will be an arena at Greenbrier, which will be studied for years, just to come to some sudden conclusion that an arena is entirely out of the budget and infeasible there too.  It's a wrap. 

I've come to accept that there will likely be no new arena in Norfolk. I've come to the realization that there is no potential tenant (except a low-level hockey team). No professional team is going to move here and no league is going to expand here. There are cities like San Diego, Kansas City, Cleveland, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Las Vegas, Salt Lake City, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville, Memphis that could land either an NBA or NHL team. Any of these would be selected before Norfolk.

I have not given up on Norfolk. Norfolk (and by extension Hampton Roads) needs an arena. Norfolk has an arena. The existing arena should be updated/upgraded/retrofitted/expanded/modified/redesigned/whichever term you ant to use to be a size-appropriate modern arena. Norfolk doesn't need 18,000 seats. 10,000 to 12,000 would be great. I think the city should upgrade Scope, Chrysler Hall and the plaza they sit on. Don't chase the unaffordable dream of a new arena in an area far from downtown. Downtown is the best spot for an arena to be, potential flooding/sea level rise be darned.

As far as the malls, MacArthur needs to become the casino if the city is dead-set on getting one as well as a convention center/entertainment area. Heck, put some city offices in there. Let the commercial filter out to Granby St and the other downtown streets.

Maybe Military Circle could still become something great but without the insistence of an arena that no one can afford to build.

[BFG]

3 hours ago, varider said:

They pretty much said that the city has abandoned any idea of an arena, that they have absolutely zero plan for either of the malls, that it will take almost a year just to tear down Military,  and that they want Military to be something like a Summit Pointe in Chesapeake

They should’ve done this at SPQ. Why does this area insist on doing everything bass-ackwards? 

The region’s biggest problem is not working together. Until they form a governing body that incorporates every city - or at least a few of the larger ones - we’ll never make it to the next level. I feel like I wasted the last 15 years waiting on someone to do something, instead of moving to another city that actually wants progress. I’ll always love Hampton Roads, but it’s infuriating how closed-minded and complacent this place is. 

[baobabs727]

On 6/9/2023 at 7:18 AM, varider said:

At the Planning Commission meeting yesterday, Economic Development gave a little update on Military Circle and MacArthur. They pretty much said that the city has abandoned any idea of an arena, that they have absolutely zero plan for either of the malls, that it will take almost a year just to tear down Military,  and that they want Military to be something like a Summit Pointe in Chesapeake, with a corporation as an anchor,  but have absolutely nobody interested and are just going to make the site ready and wait who knows how long for the "market" to figure out what should go here

The planning commission seemed very relieved that we were done talking about an arena. I just hate that I got excited yet again for something like a state of the art arena at Wellness Circle, when in reality we'd be lucky to see anything built there for several years, if ever. I can imagine the next hype train will be an arena at Greenbrier, which will be studied for years, just to come to some sudden conclusion that an arena is entirely out of the budget and infeasible there too.  It's a wrap. 

Go re-watch the much-reviled Bruce Thompson's pitch to City Council re: MC and see what he said about an arena. Once again, he was right. I tried to tell y'all back then, but all he got in return for his sober, honest grown man approach was vitriol, hatred and disdain. 

Where in the hell is Pharrell and  the Cali people? Where is his statement?

What a waste of time. What a waste of energy and goodwill. What a terrible letdown for the people of Hampton roads. But it did NOT have to be this way. They LED you on. They all did. Norfolk  City Council should resign en masse. NOW.  Incompetent buffoons.  

Edited June 12, 2023 by baobabs727

[BFG]

So before I get dramatic and consider moving elsewhere, is it just dead at MC or overall? Is there still a chance they build this downtown? 

I don’t understand how Norfolk and VB have repeatedly failed to build an arena at some point in the last 25 years. I really think the city and ODU should’ve built a larger venue when they built The Ted. Louisville, Raleigh, DC, and God knows how many other cities let the local college teams play at the downtown arena with no problem. 

[varider]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

So before I get dramatic and consider moving elsewhere, is it just dead at MC or overall? Is there still a chance they build this downtown? 

I don’t understand how Norfolk and VB have repeatedly failed to build an arena at some point in the last 25 years. I really think the city and ODU should’ve built a larger venue when they built The Ted. Louisville, Raleigh, DC, and God knows how many other cities let the local college teams play at the downtown arena with no problem. 

I didn’t watch the entire meeting, but I didnt explicitly hear that the city has abandoned the arena idea city-wide.. I just would think they would have mentioned it if they had shifted to consider an arena downtown, and it just sounded like the same story we’ve heard (arenas are too expensive, city has other priorities, no major tenant), and I think that applies to any arena whatsoever anywhere within the city.

 It’s disappointing, but I should have been more realistic. We should have known better than to believe a world class arena would rise at MILITARY CIRCLE. That would be a dream come true, and I thought the LRT and the interstate access etc. would have been a really cool setup, but we just aren’t quite ready for that yet. Why? The world may never know. I don’t think the other cities are just flat out better places to live, I just think they’ve found a way to have an edge on us. We are lucky to live here, and it really can be a beautiful and exciting place to live, and many of us are proud to from the 757, but we just never really hit that growth stride in the modern era. We made it to 1.6-1.7M and then just sat there. Which is decent, and has gotten us more amenities than we used to have, but for the true big city projects like we sometimes dream of, we would have had to attracted the same type of people that have turned Raleigh and whatever into places to be. Even if Norfolk had Richmond level growth right now, we would be headed toward 2M, and our big city dreams would be more realistic. I think it will happen, I just don’t know when. We might not have green open fields to develop in the heart of the region, but there’s so many lots that could be infill, but we just again, aren’t attracting new residents. There should be nice townhomes and condos in SPQ, near town center, at the oceanfront, etc., not just apartments, but we just aren’t there yet. We never made it to that level. We’re stuck acting like an1M metro rather than a 2M+ metro. The list of announced projects that just fizzled out is incredible. Remember Gateway Tower? the Greyhound redevelopment? The Bruce Smith project on SPQ? We still have the huge empty lot on Monticello. Richmond has office towers with thousands of workers under development, block after block of new apartments, condos,  arena, ice hockey facility, I mean truly quality projects on the horizon. We’re more so catching up to things we should have had decades ago, but the difference in development is striking. 

[mintscraft56]

Well, we all saw it coming. Though, im sure we thought it would be downsized. Instead, it seems the whole damn idea was shot down.  Well? I guess downtown is where we should pickup the pieces. We need to work from there OUTwards.

Why does it seem we can be more logical than the city government? Hmm, maybe we should all run for city council 

On 6/9/2023 at 9:21 AM, BFG said:

I hate it here. 

Ah dont say that. We got some troubles, but Im sure we can work out the kinks within the next few years. Norfolk has been growing from what was originally a town of 30 people since the 1660s, and we got no plans to stop as our area edges the 2 million mark. 

[BFG]

6 hours ago, mintscraft56 said:

Well, we all saw it coming. Though, im sure we thought it would be downsized. Instead, it seems the whole damn idea was shot down.  Well? I guess downtown is where we should pickup the pieces. We need to work from there OUTwards.

Why does it seem we can be more logical than the city government? Hmm, maybe we should all run for city council 

Ah dont say that. We got some troubles, but Im sure we can work out the kinks within the next few years. Norfolk has been growing from what was originally a town of 30 people since the 1660s, and we got no plans to stop as our area edges the 2 million mark. 

Oh I didn’t mean it literally. This will always be home. I’m just tired of status quo and no one around here wanting to take a chance on anything. And it’s been this way for 30 years, although I thought people were starting to turn a corner in the mid-2010s. 

[baobabs727]

I want an Arena (I do),  you want an Arena, we all want an Arena! 

I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream! 

To no avail.  On either account.

I find it very, very, very, very  strange the the City is not going forward with something....one of the three proposals maybe?...or something...a modified or hybrid A, B, C... at MC. Just because the arena idea was (always) a total non-starter doesn't mean that nothing can or should be built there.  Within the third decade of the second millennium, no less.  After abrogating their solemn duty and promise/agreemnt to follow the process and utilize the vetting tools which were designed to evaluate such a complex set of conditions (Billion Dollar public-private RFPs),  Norfolk leaders then pull the plug completely, indicating that the only hope for redevelopment of MC resides with some yet-to-be-named Saviour from GodKnowsWhere swooping in to clean up their mess??   And you really think Kenny et al shouldn't resign? 

Calling Paul Fraim.  Mr. Fraim?  Are you there? 

Edited June 12, 2023 by baobabs727

[BFG]

Why the confused reactions? I think the posts speak for themselves. 

[baobabs727]

13 hours ago, BFG said:

Oh I didn’t mean it literally. This will always be home. I’m just tired of status quo and no one around here wanting to take a chance on anything. And it’s been this way for 30 years, although I thought people were starting to turn a corner in the mid-2010s. 

"Always be home" as in you're never moving... or that you will call this place home even when you have moved on to a larger market with higher paying jobs and Big League amenities?

On 6/9/2023 at 10:36 AM, BFG said:

They should’ve done this at SPQ. Why does this area insist on doing everything bass-ackwards? 

The region’s biggest problem is not working together. Until they form a governing body that incorporates every city - or at least a few of the larger ones - we’ll never make it to the next level. I feel like I wasted the last 15 years waiting on someone to do something, instead of moving to another city that actually wants progress. I’ll always love Hampton Roads, but it’s infuriating how closed-minded and complacent this place is. 

15 years is not that long. How about 30 or more.  The problem isn't solely the lack of government leadership/vision or risk aversion, it's also the numbers. The numbers don't lie. Nobody does anything for nothing. ROI is king. 

Why are people attracted to a certain area when they chose to relocate themselves and their family? Beyond climate and geography, the biggest relocation drivers are high paying jobs , job growth and cost of living.  High job growth and more high paying jobs lead to population growth, which leads to more public and private investment, better amenities, etc.  Of course I'm grossly oversimplifying things here, but you get the picture.

We have a low pay economy and a relatively  high cost of living.  The two don't go well together because their marriage results in a  diminished  disposable income per capita.  

Edited June 13, 2023 by baobabs727

[brikkman]

9 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

 

We have a low pay economy and a relatively  high cost of living.  The two don't go well together because their marriage results in a  diminished  disposable income per capita.  

I try explaining that to people I have met around the world. The impact of the military/government pay on this area turns everything up side down. When I tell people the cost living isn't that great compared to  typical salaries, its hard for them to wrap their heads around it. But we all know that the cost of living is artificially inflated because of the military.  There was an article some years ago that stated that hamptonroads has the highest concentration of military personal in the world (might have been some other specifics in there, its been a while). In addition to that, how often do you run into a military officer in that area? That is vastly different when you run into military personnel in the VA/DC/MD area. My dad gave me a reason why that is (ret. Colonel), but I can't remember the specifics. All that to say, that help enlisted personnel/military in general gets severely impacts the cost of living in the 757.

[mintscraft56]

 

16 hours ago, brikkman said:

I try explaining that to people I have met around the world. The impact of the military/government pay on this area turns everything up side down. When I tell people the cost living isn't that great compared to  typical salaries, its hard for them to wrap their heads around it. But we all know that the cost of living is artificially inflated because of the military.  There was an article some years ago that stated that hamptonroads has the highest concentration of military personal in the world (might have been some other specifics in there, its been a while). In addition to that, how often do you run into a military officer in that area? That is vastly different when you run into military personnel in the VA/DC/MD area. My dad gave me a reason why that is (ret. Colonel), but I can't remember the specifics. All that to say, that help enlisted personnel/military in general gets severely impacts the cost of living in the 757.

We love the military here. Its a culture for us. We celebrate military things, many of us join the military (Like I plan to) , our kids play with military toys, and know more about the military than any other part of the nation. 

But sometimes it can be a pain to have the artificial inflation from it. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by mintscraft56