Annexations

[Spartan]

When did City Council approve the annexation? That's the only info that matters. As long as it was on or before 4/1 the Drayton should get counted.

[westsider28]

7 minutes ago, Spartan said:

When did City Council approve the annexation? That's the only info that matters. As long as it was on or before 4/1 the Drayton should get counted.

They didn't.  It hasn't been voted on yet.  I assume it's just understood it will happen eventually b/c of the water system agreement, but not by this Census.

Edited May 10, 2020 by westsider28

[spartanburgh]

What a great group of Council members, Mayor and administrators. Also, what about all the other grabs that were discussed several months ago? You guessed it,

not a single one has been brought in. We should just vote to dissolve the City of Spartanburg and let it go back to the County.

[Spartan]

Why haven't the others been brought in?

[spartanburgh]

I don't know, but none of the mentioned properties have been brought before Council. I'm not sure who at the City is responsible for getting them on the agenda,

but I would expect the City Manager is responsible. Its interesting that none of the Council members appear to have a clue or care about this issue either, as they

should be pushing this, asking questions, and moving to vote. They seem to only show up and address concerns brought up and presented to them by others. NO

proactive Council members that I am aware of..... 

[Spartanburg Guy]

I realize that in the grand scheme of things this isn’t important - but it sucks that this is the 5th largest metro in the state but only ranks 12th in city population.

[Spartan]

It's the City Manager's job. But they only have 2 city planners on staff, so maybe that's part of it too? I really thought that the city was trying to expand its population through proactive annexation, but maybe that policy no longer applies. The city is, however, making a much more sincere effort to grow from within (ie: Northside) and working to address the problems under its control. I think the city is going about it the right way even if the results are slow to come. Focusing on downtown will lead to more prosperity in the long run in terms of both population and economic growth.

 

The thing that sucks isn't being the 12th largest city, it's that half of the cities in the top 10 are just in the Charleston metro, and half of them are suburbs.

[spartanburgh]

I just saw a tv commercial with a Greenville City Council member urging all citizens to be counted in the Census. That's the difference between

Greenville and Spartanburg. Greenville has always had good progressive leadership and Spartanburg has always had bad leaders who want to

palm press, act like their it,  and don't do squat. Larger numbers of Citizens equals more federal dollars. If our Mayor fought so hard to get the

annexation option with the Water Works, why doesn't the City do something with it and why doesn't the Mayor, City Manager or Council care

now?

[westsider28]

44 minutes ago, spartanburgh said:

I just saw a tv commercial with a Greenville City Council member urging all citizens to be counted in the Census. That's the difference between

Greenville and Spartanburg. Greenville has always had good progressive leadership and Spartanburg has always had bad leaders who want to

palm press, act like their it,  and don't do squat. Larger numbers of Citizens equals more federal dollars. If our Mayor fought so hard to get the

annexation option with the Water Works, why doesn't the City do something with it and why doesn't the Mayor, City Manager or Council care

now?

First of all, the City of Spartanburg has been posting consistently about the Census on social media, including paid ads that I've seen on Instagram.  The Library has also pushed it hard, and I've seen lots of signs and multiple billboards about completing the Census.

I agree that the City should put more effort toward annexation.  I hope you are contacting City Council members and/or staff to make your concerns heard.  Or even write in to the paper.  Venting on here doesn't really make a difference.

By the way, there's not much annexation happening in Greenville either.  The vast majority of their population growth has been via infill development and increased density.  Spartanburg hasn't gotten there yet, but we're heading in the right direction on that front.  By my count, the City has about 800 units of housing that should come online in the next 2-3 years, which is ~1400 additional people.

[Spartan]

18 hours ago, spartanburgh said:

I just saw a tv commercial with a Greenville City Council member urging all citizens to be counted in the Census. That's the difference between

Greenville and Spartanburg. Greenville has always had good progressive leadership and Spartanburg has always had bad leaders who want to

palm press, act like their it,  and don't do squat. Larger numbers of Citizens equals more federal dollars. If our Mayor fought so hard to get the

annexation option with the Water Works, why doesn't the City do something with it and why doesn't the Mayor, City Manager or Council care

now?

 

Larger numbers of citizens also means more state dollars.

 

Spartanburg has a complicated arrangement with the water system and sewer system that is tied to their statuses as MSD's outside of the city limits. The city's sewer system is its only means of annexation tied to services in the way you describe. The city's sewer system is managed by Spartanburg Water, which itself is managed by multiple MSD boards and City Council because their coverage area extends beyond the city limits. 

 

There are annexation agreements have have been signed in the past that commit parcels to annexation, but past leadership was pretty bad up until about 20-25 years ago. The City tried to call in those annexation agreements in Hillbrook and some neighborhoods on the west side a few years ago with only moderate success - mostly due to the age and vagueness of those older agreements. You can read about on another thread about it somewhere on here. Anyway, the result of that situation is that city has, however, started requiring new annexation agreements for properties within 1 mile (I think) of city limits when they request sewer service. They still have to be opportunistic about how and where to annex because it costs money to provide services to new parcels. 

 

Greenville's model has been to grow from within, and I think that is what Spartanburg is doing. In the past, Spartanburg tended to focus on big fish projects that never panned out (ie: the pedestrian mall, the "Opportunity Block," etc.) and IMO historically didn't do a good job of focusing on ways to serve its residents better. Today they're focusing a ton of public sector and private sector energy into cleaning up the Northside and addressing problems in a meaningful way. They've invested in small, incremental projects to improve downtown, supported reinvestment in historic buildings, working with PAL to develop cycling and recreation infrastructure, etc. IMO Spartanburg is doing a lot of things really well, and there's a lot more to how local government should function than the raw population count. By taking this approach, the City is making strategic investments in making Spartanburg a better place for Spartans. Its these kinds of improvements that will net positive changes over time, and it will eventually draw more people to live within the city. Building a city is just a painfully slow process and change is tough to see when you're living through it. But take it from someone who hasn't actually lived in Spartanburg in almost 20 years, it's a wonderful experience to come home and see all the changes and progress in this city. Good things are in its future, and I think the population count will eventually reflect it in the same way that Greenville's has reflected theirs.

[Sparkleman]

Since I moved into my house in Hillbrook back in 2007, the city has been trying to annex me. I bought a house that was "outside" the city limits but just in a figurative way since some but not all of the houses around me were in the city. I happened to have a septic tank and while not pristine and new it still functions fairly well. This is where the city can annex though is when your septic tank fails, it is illegal to fix it and you must tap onto city sewer and be annexed. All the plumbers in the county know not to fix a Hillbrook septic tank unless it is on the other side of Zion Hill Rd.

That said I would welcome annexation if the city would pay for the cost to tap on. That cost is 10K plus whatever it costs to fix your yard/driveway after its torn up for the pipe to be run to the street. If they would be open to that, I am sure that 6 houses could be added to the city's tax rolls.

[vicupstate]

^^ $10k per house is pretty steep, is that mostly the Fee they charge or the materials/labor? 

There might be some advantage to getting all 6 houses to use the same plumber for a bulk price reduction, and maybe the city would do the same.   

[Spartanburg Dude]

17 minutes ago, Sparkleman said:

Since I moved into my house in Hillbrook back in 2007, the city has been trying to annex me. I bought a house that was "outside" the city limits but just in a figurative way since some but not all of the houses around me were in the city. I happened to have a septic tank and while not pristine and new it still functions fairly well. This is where the city can annex though is when your septic tank fails, it is illegal to fix it and you must tap onto city sewer and be annexed. All the plumbers in the county know not to fix a Hillbrook septic tank unless it is on the other side of Zion Hill Rd.

That said I would welcome annexation if the city would pay for the cost to tap on. That cost is 10K plus whatever it costs to fix your yard/driveway after its torn up for the pipe to be run to the street. If they would be open to that, I am sure that 6 houses could be added to the city's tax rolls.

Same neighborhood, same boat. I'm in the county and have two septic systems that work fine. The house across the street from me and to the left of me have both been "connected" and annexed. My house, and the 2 houses to my left are still off the pipeline. 

[spartanburgh]

Congratulations to our fine City Council who finally Drayton Elementary School. No benefits from population or tax base,  just another drain

on City services (fire and police protection).  I guess the argument of not annexing single family homes should be out the window now.  Still no

word on annexing anything of benefit.  Just great....

[Historyguy]

I somehow don't think of an elementary school being a huge drain on police and fire resources...  we don't even have to pick up their garbage, either.  Doesn't help much other than moving the line a bit further out - does make some new properties potentially contiguous I guess - but doesn't really hurt us.  

The former city manager used to say that the break even point for single family annexations was property value over $200,000.  Less than that, and they used more in services than they paid in revenue.  That's why something like the Drayton development is a good annexation target - it's taxed at 6% and doesn't use as much in public services.  

I did get word of a potential annexation coming up next month on the east side.  

[Spartan]

Publicly owned property doesn't pay taxes, so if the City is now providing trash pick up and other services then it's technically a loss.  However, the City will be in a better position to annex the adjacent properties when the time comes. I'm betting that's the play here. When all of that new development starts going up, they'll get annexed in and contribute to the city's tax base. AS the city expands, I assume they would be intentional about not creating donut holes too.

 

My understanding is that what history guy said is generally true... however, the City must want to annex new residential property too, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to annex all of Hillbrook a few years ago. It should, in theory, have to do with home value and density, and maybe ease of service relative to existing service areas? 

[westsider28]

Saw in the paper this morning that there is an annexation request to be heard at the July 16 Planning Commission meeting for 225 Milliken Street and 0 Cleveland Court (see map below) from Pacolet Milliken.  They are requesting the parcels be zoned R-6, General Residential (SFH at ~10 units per acre) upon annexation.  It looks like this may result in contiguity with Drayton Mill.  Certainly a move in the right direction.

[Spartan]

Nice. I hope they will extend Beverly Drive to Drayton St.... or is there a railroad in the way?

[westsider28]

2 hours ago, Spartan said:

Nice. I hope they will extend Beverly Drive to Drayton St.... or is there a railroad in the way?

Railroad.  But there will be a paved trail connection under the RR bridge over Lawson's Fork Creek that will connect the current Drayton Trails to Heywood Ave and then on to Cottonwood. So bike/ped connectivity will improve.