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cityboi

Carroll South of the Ballpark (Greensboro)

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This is a good size project for GSO. This should put it just over 200' at 15 stories. If it is 20 stories, that's about 300'. It will be interesting to see what number they decide on, but both should be great heights for the city. Even more impressive are the three usage types. I do wish the hotel, and even moreso, the residential had a more attractive appearance, and more separation from the office building. 

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One thing to point out. It will be built in phases. The first phase will be residential, retail, grocery store and the Aloft Hotel. The second phase will include the conference center and the last phase will include the office tower. That being said, it might be a few years before construction on the office tower begins, but that depends on how fast Carroll secures an anchor tenant.

 

But this is a very attractive project much better than the single tower plan.

Edited by cityboi
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2 minutes ago, jthomas said:

I agree that this is a much better project overall than the tower that was initially proposed. The office portion of the new design is still pretty lackluster, but the street level uses if built as shown will do a lot for the area. The parking on the Eugene Street frontage of Carroll at Bellemeade is a mistake that will weigh on this area for a long time, so I'm glad to see that won't be repeated here.

Couple of interesting tidbits from the Business Journal article on the project:

  • Project Slugger is apparently back up to 9 stories due to strong office demand.
  • Carroll plans to ask for the ability to have private inspections for the new project (Carroll S.O.B.?! Needs a new name ASAP - haha), and says that he likely won't move forward without that concession. He claims that waiting on city inspectors added six months to the timeline at Bellemeade.

 

That's great that Project Slugger is back to 9 stories. Definitely a lot of density around the ballpark area.

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Wonder if the blue and yellow bands on the Aloft will light up at night. That would look so cool.

Edited by cityboi
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Now with this project, three of the four corners at the intersection of Eugene and Bellemeade Street will be developed. Carroll at Bellemeade / Hyatt Place at the Northeast corner, Project Slugger and the ballpark at the northwest corner and now an office tower, Aloft Hotel and luxury apartments on the southwest corner. Questions have already been raised about the southeast corner which is currently a parking lot for the Merchants Association. When asked they said they would have no problem selling the lot for the better of the community.  So the question is will Carroll try to purchase that corner of the intersection? Looks like Eugene Street from the north edge of downtown to Friendly Ave will become an active stretch.

Edited by cityboi
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23 hours ago, urbanpirate said:

Can’t wait to see this finished in 8 years!

Being a military brat, thus having lived in or near major cities all my life....the Raleigh people are laughable at best....and Charlotte folks are downright delusional.  Proof?  I noticed that every time cityboi says anything positive about Greensboro, "Urban" --pirate had some obnoxious response.  Hopefully you're a lady because it's very "catty" and feminine.  It's ironic too becuase I spent a couple of years in Charlotte at UNC      C .....I, along with many others, always laughed at those who consider Charlotte "urban".  It is...with all due respect, a big    town   ...but it misses the mark that its fans ---THINK--it has ascended too.  Just for starters:

1. Its predictable and "manufactured" ...a non-vintage, pseudo-city....that w/o the inclusion of the Triad and its vast populations...would not qualify for major league sports. UrbanPirates come from towns that need no other city to meet high demographic requirements.

2. The locals are ignorant and the colleges have no heritage. 

3. The transplants are delusional....yessss you've got NFL and NBA...but it's not as "city" as you think!!  It's a really big SUBurb.

4. Need proof?   Nobody really rides the lightrail, it's just there. 

5. Downtown? ...or Uptown as you all call it?  DEAD after 5....and those who disagree, you are as well-traveled as you think.  

6. It takes 6-10 minutes by highway to pass through the "city" 

7. 10 minutes outside of the city and you're in the STICKS...the country....

8. Nothing Is Authentic

After growing up in Toronto and NY....I was actually surprised when I transferred to NCATSU in Greensboro.  It's authentic, and surprisingly urban and metropolitan w/o trying to be.  People forget that to its west,  it's adjacent High Point which is adjacent to Thomasville and Winston-Salem...to the South there's Asheboro and vicinity with the states's largest zoo. To the East, Burlington is 7 miles from Downtown Greensboro. Chapel is then 20 minutes from Burlington---then Durham minutes from Chapel Hill---then Raleigh.  Not to mention, the Virginia line is a stone's throw to the North with it's metro areas. Greensboro is surrounded by cities big and small in every direction.  There's a genuine, authentic, aggressive, grittiness that exists here....it's  quite beautiful actually!!  Boring?   sometimes......but so is Charlotte and Raleigh. 

BTW.....DURHAM and WINSTON-SALEM are also more "urban" and metropolitan that Charlotte and Raleigh.

 

 

 

Edited by Traveler-Joe
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K...I spent the last 2 years there...and HAD to be there last week for an old friend. I know Charlotte intimately and can say from experience that its wayyyy overrated and as one who's lived in multiple major-league cities, with the exception if OKC, Charlotte is the least "urban".   If you like it, cool ....urban-pie-rat  was so condescending about citiboi's post that i needed to address it. 

Nevertheless, you're right...it is a good project

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I appreciate cityboi’s giddyness, but observationally speaking, he tends to recycle/repost the same old tired photos of Downtown GSO; over and over again. We get it.  My snarky comment was more directed to Carroll and the years it took to develop Bellmeade, in contrast to other other larger products taking 1/2 the time to complete in neighboring cities.   

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52 minutes ago, urbanpirate said:

I appreciate cityboi’s giddyness, but observationally speaking, he tends to recycle/repost the same old tired photos of Downtown GSO; over and over again. We get it.  My snarky comment was more directed to Carroll and the years it took to develop Bellmeade, in contrast to other other larger products taking 1/2 the time to complete in neighboring cities.   

Sometimes recycling posts is good when nothing is going on. It keeps the conversations going and keeps this section from being completely dead. Quite frankly, with all the development happening in the Triad cities as a whole you'd think there would be more active members. Sometimes I feel like I have to carry the weight to keep this section from going days or weeks without posts. The Charlotte and Raleigh sections have dozens of people who post everyday. Yes there is more development to talk about but there is enough development going on in the Triad to have more active members then just me and a few people. The Winston-Salem folks abandoned Urban Planet and Triad forums on other sites and have their own forum. They seem to prefer it that way. But I'm not going to get into all that.

 

Welcome Traveler Joe 

Edited by cityboi
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1 hour ago, Traveler-Joe said:

K...I spent the last 2 years there...and HAD to be there last week for an old friend. I know Charlotte intimately and can say from experience that its wayyyy overrated and as one who's lived in multiple major-league cities, with the exception if OKC, Charlotte is the least "urban".   If you like it, cool ....urban-pie-rat  was so condescending about citiboi's post that i needed to address it. 

Nevertheless, you're right...it is a good project

Welcome to UP @Traveler-Joe   See you're a new UP member.   I'm from Charlotte and love my home town, but all views / experiences are welcome on this board.  Glad you joined UP  -  Best wishes.

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This project is creating a lot of excitement and is proving the demand is there........

20190502_210152.png

Edited by cityboi
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25 minutes ago, cityboi said:

This project is creating a lot of excitement and is proving the demand is there........

20190502_210152.png

Seriously?

He feels the need to send a tweet announcing  nothing more than his phone is ringing off the hook with potential tenants?

Any you wonder why some people are a bit skeptical of this and some of his other previously announced developments...

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2 minutes ago, RALNATIVE said:

Seriously?

He feels the need to send a tweet announcing  nothing more than his phone is ringing off the hook with potential tenants?

Any you wonder why some people are a bit skeptical of this and some of his other previously announced developments...

The Carroll Companies is one of the largest development companies in the southeast. He certainly didn't get there by proposing "fantasy" projects.

Edited by cityboi
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32 minutes ago, cityboi said:

The Carroll Companies is one of the largest development companies in the southeast. He certainly didn't get there by proposing "fantasy" projects.

Just one word...hype.

We'll just see how this one turns out.

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So, I am excited about this project. Am I from Greensboro? No...born and raised in Raleigh, and school in Charlotte. But, I love Greensboro and W-S bc most of my family is from the area. Safe to say, I want both cities to succeed, and think they already do in some regards. 

 

In terms of this project, let's think about the office, since that will be way harder than the others. I'm thinking Kontoor might be an interesting player, as well as some front-end offices of the major manufacturing arms here. Maybe someone like Qorvo or Honda Air might be interested. I certainly think that even though we don't talk about it, Greensboro can definitely carry it's own weight in corporate presence. I truly think this is going to be a lateral move or intra-city move, rather than a new company. 

Has Carroll indicated what types of office tenants he's looking for? Maybe UNCG can leverage some small space in the building too, or in another building now occupied by another company. 

It's going to be fun to speculate. 

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1 hour ago, Rufus said:

So, I am excited about this project. Am I from Greensboro? No...born and raised in Raleigh, and school in Charlotte. But, I love Greensboro and W-S bc most of my family is from the area. Safe to say, I want both cities to succeed, and think they already do in some regards. 

 

In terms of this project, let's think about the office, since that will be way harder than the others. I'm thinking Kontoor might be an interesting player, as well as some front-end offices of the major manufacturing arms here. Maybe someone like Qorvo or Honda Air might be interested. I certainly think that even though we don't talk about it, Greensboro can definitely carry it's own weight in corporate presence. I truly think this is going to be a lateral move or intra-city move, rather than a new company. 

Has Carroll indicated what types of office tenants he's looking for? Maybe UNCG can leverage some small space in the building too, or in another building now occupied by another company. 

It's going to be fun to speculate. 

I predict what will happen. A bunch of small businesses will lease space with a medium sized to large company as an anchor tenant. A bank could open up downtown offices. But if Carroll's phone is ringing off the hook, this could happen more quickly. Also the development is a win-win  situation for those of us who wanted a tower and a more spread out pedestrian mixed-use development. Technically there are two towers. The Aloft and the office tower even though the two buildings are attached. The news gets even better with Project Slugger becoming a 9 story development again. Its going to get tall and dense around that ballpark pretty quickly.

What I'm looking out for is the retail. Its street level and wraps around the entire development. That's a lot of retail and a much needed improvement to the area. Carroll at Bellemeade lacked that. I'm curious as to whether Carroll can attract a national or regional grocery chain or will it be a locally owned grocery store. One thing on my wish list is a small format Target store which is opening up in downtowns and near college campuses. Downtown Chapel Hill has a Target. Given the demographics of the area with the new luxury apartments, I can see it happening. I would put it on a ground floor retail location at Eugene Street and Friendly Ave which is a major intersection.

 

Target small format store in downtown Chapel Hill 

TARGET.jpeg

Edited by cityboi
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On 5/1/2019 at 1:47 PM, Rufus said:

This is a good size project for GSO. This should put it just over 200' at 15 stories. If it is 20 stories, that's about 300'. It will be interesting to see what number they decide on, but both should be great heights for the city. Even more impressive are the three usage types. I do wish the hotel, and even moreso, the residential had a more attractive appearance, and more separation from the office building. 

The Aloft design is not bad but it is a little bland compared to many Alofts I've seen. However I'm glad its not one of those cookie cutter Alofts with the sloped roofs or even the high-rise version of those.  Hopefully those color panels will light up at night like I have seen on some Alofts which would give it an interesting look at night. But at 9 to 10 stories, that is still a nice height. There is going to be a lot of compact tall density at the intersection of Bellemeade and Eugene and within two blocks along Eugene. 6 stories of apartments with Carroll at Bellemeade and Hyatt Place, 15 to 20 story office tower, 9 story Project Slugger, 9 to 10 story Aloft along with 6 to 7 story residential in that project. I can only imagine how this will all look watching a baseball game with the rest of Greensboro's skyline in the backdrop. There are still several tracts of land around the ballpark that could be developed. The Merchants Association property at the southeast corner of Bellemeade and Eugene (across from both Hyatt Place and the planned office tower). The association said they are willing to sell.  By that time I'm sure the land value of that property will sky rocket. Then there is a gravel lot at corner of Edgeworth and Bellemeade right next to Carroll's project. Diagonally across the street from that there is land for sale.  Also there is opportunity for expansion of the Greenway at Stadium Park Apartments. They could put up a midrise or highrise addition in the parking lot with underground parking which would over look the outfield. Also there is vacant land near Five Points at the intersection of Smith Street and Edgeworth. There needs to be streetscape improvement in the entire ballpark district and with all the people these projects are going to bring along with residents, there needs to be a public plaza/park. Maybe that could be incorporated with whatever gets built on the Merchants Association property. Office workers, residents, hotel guests and people attending baseball games could utilize  it and the park could host small music events and small festivals. It could even become a stage location for the North Carolina Folk Festival. You can never have enough public spaces in downtown Greensboro and its important to have these kind of spaces near a lot of high density development which attracts a lot of people. A future development on the Merchant Association property also needs to include an entertainment element which would attract more people to the ballpark district at night when baseball season is over. There are already a number of restaurants and breweries in the district but there needs to be an entertainment element which would help boost hotel success of the Aloft and Hyatt Place.

The 8 story 1,000 space deck will have access from both Eugene Street and Bellemeade Street for office workers from Carroll's project, Project Slugger, hotel guests, and people attending baseball games. The combined apartment complexes of Carroll South of the Ballpark, Carroll at Bellemeade, Greenway at Stadium Park and Greenway at Fisher Park brings the number of apartments units directly around the ballpark to well over 1,000 apartments. There are several other apartment complexes downtown and DGI president Zack Matheny wants to break the 4,000 to 7,000 resident threshold downtown. With that many apartment/condos and upscale demographics, thats when you start getting close to the critical mass that is needed to attract national brand retail and services downtown. These latest project will go a long way in getting downtown there. Carroll's planned project is being touted as the largest downtown development ever and that's no exaggeration. However when the plan comes together for the News and Record property, it will dwarf what Carroll is planning to build. It will take up twice the footprint of the land Carroll is building on and could include another half block if the city or a developer can purchase land in the other side of Hughes street directly across the street from the Depot.

Carroll South of the Ballpark

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Project Slugger

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other ballpark apartments:

Greenway at Stadium Park

As you can see, a phase 2 could easily be built in the lot. Hopefully a taller midrise around 8 or 9 stories.

 

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Greenway at Fisher Park

 

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Carroll at Bellemeade/Hyatt Place

 

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Some ballpark district restaurants and breweries.

The Art of Street Food, Preyer Brewing, Joymongers Brewery

 

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Downtown's first Grocery Store in the modern era is near the ballpark. Deep Roots Market which is like a mini Whole Foods. What's interesting is that Carroll is putting a grocery store in his development near the ballpark. But most likely it will be a more traditional store like a Fresh Market or Harris Teeter type store.

 

 

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Edited by cityboi
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Reminds me of Camperdown or ONE here in Greenville. Looks nice. Hope Roy gets the preleases he needs and it gets built fully. :) Would definitely drive up there and get some construction drone shots. 

Edited by gman430
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